I feel like Lou Smit had a very solid resume in crime investigation. Much more credible than any of the rubes from the PD. I don't think he concluded that the parents were not guilty; merely that there was enough evidence to seriously consider an intruder. Which to my mind is reasonable doubt.

Anonymous wrote:
YES!!! That's it....but I just seen that all of his comments were deleted? Do they usually do that?

No. He did it. He didn't realize that he was posting on an open forum, rather than a closed forum. He deleted his user account and that deleted all of his comments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why anyone is arguing that open window must mean intruder. If you weee in the home and staging a murder of course you would want to make it look like someone broke in.

Also, I'm seriously wondering if there are tons of rabid Ramsey defenders or just one or two people who can't fathom it. I don't know who did it but the "they loved her!" argument is so weak. Parents kill ALL THE TIME

Rabid? Seriously? Are you getting a little too invested?

I've made like three comments on this entire thread. Unlike the people who respond to every post with "it isn't the Ramsey's!" and provide no evidence.

I think people have provided many ideas that point away from the Ramseys. No one has any evidence but there is so much information available especially when suspicious people made suspicious statements themselves. I think people realize how much damage both the police and the press did to the case. All those images of that little girl in her pageant outfits turned people against Patsy. Those pageants were only a small portion of her life. Her kids probably had a more normal life than the kids of today who are dragged from activity to activity or play sports 365 days a year.

None of this is evidence. The evidence that there was no intruder is overwhelming.

Really?? How so? Seems like quite the opposite.

Parents don't talk to police for 5 months after initial interview.
No signs of intruder
Neighbors report lights on in house that night and people moving around
Patsy ,John, amd Burke all heard on 911 call recording, but parent later claim he was asleep.
Ramsey's also limited detectives access to Burke
Ramson note in Patsey's handwriting, written on pad left in house, asking for ransom equivalent to John Ramsey's non-public bonus.
As noted in ink above, no other case in history of ransom note and dead kid in house.
Ransom note was two and a half pages, typically aren't more than a page.
She was found wrapped in her favorite blanket Ina room that was basically hidden.
John Ramsey found her though others sea chef house. Plus more than I am too lazy to list.

Honestly, for me ithe tell tale sign was the parents refusal to cooperate with the investigation form very early on, no innocent parent would do that.

Did you watch the Lou Smit documentary? I was persuaded to quite the opposite conclusion(s) from yours based on Smit's video.

Nobody other than Lou Smit and Mary Lacy has ever, EVER seriously doubted that the Ramseys did it. They literally got away with murder because there was some unsubstantiated murky idea that someone else could possibly maybe have done it. That DNA does not convince me at ALL - I do not think we are that advanced in our ability to analyze DNA yet, and given that it was on the pants and the underwear I suspect it was someone involved in the autopsy. For me, the following make it impossible that it was a stranger:

1. The note. That note was written by a woman and is long and bizarre. No killer hung out in the dark writing that note for more than a half hour.
2. Pasty wearing the same clothes and in full makeup when the police came when they had to leave to catch a flight some 20 minutes after she came downstairs. Who would not have woken the kids up. It has never been reported but I wish there was information about how packed they were. That would be telling.
3. The pineapple in the bowl with only Pasty and Burke's prints on it that was found in JB's stomach partially digested.
4. The underwear that were multiple sizes too big, apparently bought as a present for Patsy's niece but given to JB - none of the rest of the pack was in JB;s drawer and the remainder of the pack was not found until a year later, intact. Someone found that pack of underwear and used one pair. So, where were her other underwear? washed? No way did she have on size 12 underwear all night long under pants.
5. Her hair had been redone.
6. Her body had been washed down after the assault, But her father and mother's clothing fibers from the night before were all over including in the crotch of the underwear which is a big deal if they are not, in fact, the same underwear she had on the night before.
7. She was wearing an entirely different outfit than she had been wearing when put to bed.
8. The blanket that was in the dryer, taken out, and draped over her.
9. The garrote was made using a brush in the house. Presumably a killer would have come with his own.
10. The Rasmey's bizarre claim that they did not know the flashlight that was obviously from their home.
11. The sending of Burke away right away. That is just off and odd.

The ones who doubted the Ramseys were the totally incompetent Boulder Police Department and the sensation-thirsty media.Those aren't credible sources. The media wants it to be the parents because that's more of a story than some sick pedophile. And the Boulder police botched everything so I put very little stock in any conclusions they came to. There are some things that simply don't make sense about the case but it ultimately comes down to reasonable doubt. Is there reasonable doubt that the parents did it? Absolutely. Everything you've listed above is speculation. Smit, Lacy, and a number of forensic experts think it was an intruder. One day a match could very well be made with the touch DNA found around JB's body and on her clothes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Santa was an awfully hairy man to have not left a single hair behind as someone mentioned. Ski mask or not look at that beard. How would he manage to not get a loose hair in the time he spent in the home? Would he really keep a mask on for hours waiting? He would be sweating bullets.

I think Santa was part of the back up plan by John Ramsey if/ when he got caught abusing/ killing his DD. John Ramsey threw EVERYONE under the bus including his won 9 year old son. Evil man.

How did he throw his son under the bus? There was no evidence JB was ever abused. If anyone would know, it would be her pediatrician. She went to the doctor regularly and he said there were no symptoms of abuse of any kind.

The pineapple is a big red herring. A 6 year old child is perfectly capable of eating some food in her own home, which has her mothers prints on it. Or is this just another prop put in place bu John Ramsey?

Have the older children ever been interviewed?

Anonymous wrote:This Santa was an awfully hairy man to have not left a single hair behind as someone mentioned. Ski mask or not look at that beard. How would he manage to not get a loose hair in the time he spent in the home? Would he really keep a mask on for hours waiting? He would be sweating bullets.

I think Santa was part of the back up plan by John Ramsey if/ when he got caught abusing/ killing his DD. John Ramsey threw EVERYONE under the bus including his won 9 year old son. Evil man.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why anyone is arguing that open window must mean intruder. If you weee in the home and staging a murder of course you would want to make it look like someone broke in.

Also, I'm seriously wondering if there are tons of rabid Ramsey defenders or just one or two people who can't fathom it. I don't know who did it but the "they loved her!" argument is so weak. Parents kill ALL THE TIME

Rabid? Seriously? Are you getting a little too invested?

I've made like three comments on this entire thread. Unlike the people who respond to every post with "it isn't the Ramsey's!" and provide no evidence.

I think people have provided many ideas that point away from the Ramseys. No one has any evidence but there is so much information available especially when suspicious people made suspicious statements themselves. I think people realize how much damage both the police and the press did to the case. All those images of that little girl in her pageant outfits turned people against Patsy. Those pageants were only a small portion of her life. Her kids probably had a more normal life than the kids of today who are dragged from activity to activity or play sports 365 days a year.

None of this is evidence. The evidence that there was no intruder is overwhelming.

Really?? How so? Seems like quite the opposite.

Parents don't talk to police for 5 months after initial interview.
No signs of intruder
Neighbors report lights on in house that night and people moving around
Patsy ,John, amd Burke all heard on 911 call recording, but parent later claim he was asleep.
Ramsey's also limited detectives access to Burke
Ramson note in Patsey's handwriting, written on pad left in house, asking for ransom equivalent to John Ramsey's non-public bonus.
As noted in ink above, no other case in history of ransom note and dead kid in house.
Ransom note was two and a half pages, typically aren't more than a page.
She was found wrapped in her favorite blanket Ina room that was basically hidden.
John Ramsey found her though others sea chef house. Plus more than I am too lazy to list.

Honestly, for me ithe tell tale sign was the parents refusal to cooperate with the investigation form very early on, no innocent parent would do that.

Did you watch the Lou Smit documentary? I was persuaded to quite the opposite conclusion(s) from yours based on Smit's video.

Nobody other than Lou Smit and Mary Lacy has ever, EVER seriously doubted that the Ramseys did it. They literally got away with murder because there was some unsubstantiated murky idea that someone else could possibly maybe have done it. That DNA does not convince me at ALL - I do not think we are that advanced in our ability to analyze DNA yet, and given that it was on the pants and the underwear I suspect it was someone involved in the autopsy. For me, the following make it impossible that it was a stranger:

1. The note. That note was written by a woman and is long and bizarre. No killer hung out in the dark writing that note for more than a half hour.
2. Pasty wearing the same clothes and in full makeup when the police came when they had to leave to catch a flight some 20 minutes after she came downstairs. Who would not have woken the kids up. It has never been reported but I wish there was information about how packed they were. That would be telling.
3. The pineapple in the bowl with only Pasty and Burke's prints on it that was found in JB's stomach partially digested.
4. The underwear that were multiple sizes too big, apparently bought as a present for Patsy's niece but given to JB - none of the rest of the pack was in JB;s drawer and the remainder of the pack was not found until a year later, intact. Someone found that pack of underwear and used one pair. So, where were her other underwear? washed? No way did she have on size 12 underwear all night long under pants.
5. Her hair had been redone.
6. Her body had been washed down after the assault, But her father and mother's clothing fibers from the night before were all over including in the crotch of the underwear which is a big deal if they are not, in fact, the same underwear she had on the night before.
7. She was wearing an entirely different outfit than she had been wearing when put to bed.
8. The blanket that was in the dryer, taken out, and draped over her.
9. The garrote was made using a brush in the house. Presumably a killer would have come with his own.
10. The Rasmey's bizarre claim that they did not know the flashlight that was obviously from their home.
11. The sending of Burke away right away. That is just off and odd.

John Ramsey was an accomplished sailor who knew how to make these knots, which he learned in the Navy.

I remember this case from when it happened.
Now I think that with the body at the house, either the parents did it or an intruder. Since the window is undisturbed, that points back to the parents. More specifically, I think that this case id an abuser who accidentally or on purpose killed his DD. Then made an elaborate and very successful plan that purposely looked fake and moved all suspicion upon his wife. How easily everyone believed this very violent crime was committed by the mother when it us usually the father who commits violent sexual crimes against a beautiful girl child. John Ramsey made every attempt (successfully!) to muddy the waters, place suspicion on everyone but himself, and framed his wife for his DD murder. Very slick dude. Poor Patsy Ramsey was very ill, undergoing cancer treatments, and according to John Ramsey, kept sedated the whole time -- for months -- while the investigation went on. then she conveniently died, and he cleaned the whole thing up with the "intruder" theory. Look at wikipedia -- he is STILL actively suing those who speak against him, using his fortune in excess of $200M. The rich get different justice.

I thought perhaps Burke, but his police interview swayed me against him as a suspect. I don't think he could have kept it a secret this long and also I don't think the parents would have created such an elaborate coverup if he was the killer. If it wasn't an intruder think John killed her and Patsy covered for him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why anyone is arguing that open window must mean intruder. If you weee in the home and staging a murder of course you would want to make it look like someone broke in.

Also, I'm seriously wondering if there are tons of rabid Ramsey defenders or just one or two people who can't fathom it. I don't know who did it but the "they loved her!" argument is so weak. Parents kill ALL THE TIME

Rabid? Seriously? Are you getting a little too invested?

I've made like three comments on this entire thread. Unlike the people who respond to every post with "it isn't the Ramsey's!" and provide no evidence.

I think people have provided many ideas that point away from the Ramseys. No one has any evidence but there is so much information available especially when suspicious people made suspicious statements themselves. I think people realize how much damage both the police and the press did to the case. All those images of that little girl in her pageant outfits turned people against Patsy. Those pageants were only a small portion of her life. Her kids probably had a more normal life than the kids of today who are dragged from activity to activity or play sports 365 days a year.

None of this is evidence. The evidence that there was no intruder is overwhelming.

Really?? How so? Seems like quite the opposite.

Parents don't talk to police for 5 months after initial interview.
No signs of intruder
Neighbors report lights on in house that night and people moving around
Patsy ,John, amd Burke all heard on 911 call recording, but parent later claim he was asleep.
Ramsey's also limited detectives access to Burke
Ramson note in Patsey's handwriting, written on pad left in house, asking for ransom equivalent to John Ramsey's non-public bonus.
As noted in ink above, no other case in history of ransom note and dead kid in house.
Ransom note was two and a half pages, typically aren't more than a page.
She was found wrapped in her favorite blanket Ina room that was basically hidden.
John Ramsey found her though others sea chef house. Plus more than I am too lazy to list.

Honestly, for me ithe tell tale sign was the parents refusal to cooperate with the investigation form very early on, no innocent parent would do that.

Did you watch the Lou Smit documentary? I was persuaded to quite the opposite conclusion(s) from yours based on Smit's video.

Nobody other than Lou Smit and Mary Lacy has ever, EVER seriously doubted that the Ramseys did it. They literally got away with murder because there was some unsubstantiated murky idea that someone else could possibly maybe have done it. That DNA does not convince me at ALL - I do not think we are that advanced in our ability to analyze DNA yet, and given that it was on the pants and the underwear I suspect it was someone involved in the autopsy. For me, the following make it impossible that it was a stranger:

1. The note. That note was written by a woman and is long and bizarre. No killer hung out in the dark writing that note for more than a half hour.
2. Pasty wearing the same clothes and in full makeup when the police came when they had to leave to catch a flight some 20 minutes after she came downstairs. Who would not have woken the kids up. It has never been reported but I wish there was information about how packed they were. That would be telling.
3. The pineapple in the bowl with only Pasty and Burke's prints on it that was found in JB's stomach partially digested.
4. The underwear that were multiple sizes too big, apparently bought as a present for Patsy's niece but given to JB - none of the rest of the pack was in JB;s drawer and the remainder of the pack was not found until a year later, intact. Someone found that pack of underwear and used one pair. So, where were her other underwear? washed? No way did she have on size 12 underwear all night long under pants.
5. Her hair had been redone.
6. Her body had been washed down after the assault, But her father and mother's clothing fibers from the night before were all over including in the crotch of the underwear which is a big deal if they are not, in fact, the same underwear she had on the night before.
7. She was wearing an entirely different outfit than she had been wearing when put to bed.
8. The blanket that was in the dryer, taken out, and draped over her.
9. The garrote was made using a brush in the house. Presumably a killer would have come with his own.
10. The Rasmey's bizarre claim that they did not know the flashlight that was obviously from their home.
11. The sending of Burke away right away. That is just off and odd.

I should add I am interested in the 911 call portion being played on the CBS series next week. Is it Burke or not? Is my question

The Reddit has me swaying back to the parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why anyone is arguing that open window must mean intruder. If you weee in the home and staging a murder of course you would want to make it look like someone broke in.

Also, I'm seriously wondering if there are tons of rabid Ramsey defenders or just one or two people who can't fathom it. I don't know who did it but the "they loved her!" argument is so weak. Parents kill ALL THE TIME

Rabid? Seriously? Are you getting a little too invested?

I've made like three comments on this entire thread. Unlike the people who respond to every post with "it isn't the Ramsey's!" and provide no evidence.

I think people have provided many ideas that point away from the Ramseys. No one has any evidence but there is so much information available especially when suspicious people made suspicious statements themselves. I think people realize how much damage both the police and the press did to the case. All those images of that little girl in her pageant outfits turned people against Patsy. Those pageants were only a small portion of her life. Her kids probably had a more normal life than the kids of today who are dragged from activity to activity or play sports 365 days a year.

None of this is evidence. The evidence that there was no intruder is overwhelming.

Really?? How so? Seems like quite the opposite.

Parents don't talk to police for 5 months after initial interview.
No signs of intruder
Neighbors report lights on in house that night and people moving around
Patsy ,John, amd Burke all heard on 911 call recording, but parent later claim he was asleep.
Ramsey's also limited detectives access to Burke
Ramson note in Patsey's handwriting, written on pad left in house, asking for ransom equivalent to John Ramsey's non-public bonus.
As noted in ink above, no other case in history of ransom note and dead kid in house.
Ransom note was two and a half pages, typically aren't more than a page.
She was found wrapped in her favorite blanket Ina room that was basically hidden.
John Ramsey found her though others sea chef house. Plus more than I am too lazy to list.

Honestly, for me ithe tell tale sign was the parents refusal to cooperate with the investigation form very early on, no innocent parent would do that.

Did you watch the Lou Smit documentary? I was persuaded to quite the opposite conclusion(s) from yours based on Smit's video.

I also keep coming back to the timeline. No way a killer hung out in the house for two hours with everyone sleeping upstairs.