Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 22:11     Subject: Game of Thrones
A few lingering comments/questions:

- Sansa is sitting under a weirwood tree when LF proposes to her. Might that be the tree bran decides to plant himself in? If he does, and the Knight's King touches him in his dream state, that could be the way the white walkers cross into the North without bringing the wall down.

- who blew the horn Samwell and the others with him saw the white walkers in season 1(?)? He makes some comment that it would be blown 3x in such a case. I thought it was the watch, but it seems now that no one there really knew what white walkers were except from ancient stories.

- do we really know that Jon is rheagar's son? I've been following the theory, but the finale only tells us layanna's baby is Jon. We know there were rumors that rheagar raped her, fan theories they actually had consensual relationship, possibly even married, but we still don't know he's the father, or do we?
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 22:10     Subject: Re:Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Why is Cersei on the Iron Throne instead of Jaime? As the male Lannister heir, wouldn't he have a stronger claim to the throne than Cersei?




Cersei was named Queen Regent for her son, until his majority. She previously ruled the country. Jaime gave up the right to hold any kind of lordship when he became a King's Guard.

Legalities doesn't matter than much in Westeros, anyway. What matters most is if you can take it and if you can hold it.


The Lannisters aren't officially the ruling house though, right? Wasn't Tommen officially a Baratheon? Jaime would have no claim. Unless I missed something...
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 20:54     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


The way Catelyn rashly started the whole War of the Five Kings based on a letter from her crazy conniving sister? You'd trust her to keep cool about the whole Jon Snow is a Targaryen thing? A lovely castle and all at Riverrun, but the three Tully siblings were a rather weak lot.


I don't see it as that cut and dried -- Catelyn started the war?


I don't think she alone started the war, but she did amp up the tension between the Starks and the Lannisters when she took Tyrion as her prisoner. That was Jamie's reason for attacking Ned and killing some of his men when he was returning from Littlefinger's brothel.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 20:52     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


He couldn't tell her. There was no guarantee how she would react. She might be against it, thinking the presence of a targaryen put her own family at risk. I mean, let's not forget that no one stopped them from murdering the other targaryen children. Caitlynn had no particular allegiance to Lyanna Stark. And I recall she likely wasn't particularly in love with Ned. Wasn't she originally with his brother? When Robert talked of being shocked Ned cheated, it wasn't that they were so shocked b/c of his relationship with Caitlynn. It was they were shocked because he was a man with a strong sense of duty/obligation/morality.

I also am not so sure that it was the cheating part that angered Caitlynn so much. I think it was the humiliation. I think that is why she always made it clear Jon wasn't to sit at the table.

Knowing Ned didn't really cheat doesn't seem like it would have stopped her from resenting Jon. I think she still would have seen him in a negative light, as an embarrassment to her.


I think it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't tell her early in the marriage. He had no basis for knowing how she would react. It is more surprising to me that he hadn't told her by the time the story began, at which point they made it clear it had grown into a loving marriage. By that point I would have thought he would have trusted her and it would have eased so much tension with Jon.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 20:11     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is Tommen's the first suicide we've seen in this world?


Although they didn't show the act, we did see Shireen's mother, Selyse, hung herself shortly after Shireen was killed.


Ah that's right. Thanks.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 19:56     Subject: Re:Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Why is Cersei on the Iron Throne instead of Jaime? As the male Lannister heir, wouldn't he have a stronger claim to the throne than Cersei?


Didn't he agree not to have kids as part of becoming part of the kingsguard?


Tommen released him from the kings guard after the showdown with the high sparrow.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 19:26     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


He couldn't tell her. There was no guarantee how she would react. She might be against it, thinking the presence of a targaryen put her own family at risk. I mean, let's not forget that no one stopped them from murdering the other targaryen children. Caitlynn had no particular allegiance to Lyanna Stark. And I recall she likely wasn't particularly in love with Ned. Wasn't she originally with his brother? When Robert talked of being shocked Ned cheated, it wasn't that they were so shocked b/c of his relationship with Caitlynn. It was they were shocked because he was a man with a strong sense of duty/obligation/morality.

I also am not so sure that it was the cheating part that angered Caitlynn so much. I think it was the humiliation. I think that is why she always made it clear Jon wasn't to sit at the table.

Knowing Ned didn't really cheat doesn't seem like it would have stopped her from resenting Jon. I think she still would have seen him in a negative light, as an embarrassment to her.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 19:25     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


He promised his dying sister that he would tell no one. You need more than that?



+1 It is heartbreaking the way it affected Catelynn and cast a pall over their marriage (and Jon's upbringing) but imo he did the right thing. It was the only way he could keep the boy safe.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 19:18     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:Is Tommen's the first suicide we've seen in this world?


Although they didn't show the act, we did see Shireen's mother, Selyse, hung herself shortly after Shireen was killed.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 18:53     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


The way Catelyn rashly started the whole War of the Five Kings based on a letter from her crazy conniving sister? You'd trust her to keep cool about the whole Jon Snow is a Targaryen thing? A lovely castle and all at Riverrun, but the three Tully siblings were a rather weak lot.


I don't see it as that cut and dried -- Catelyn started the war?
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 18:52     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


He promised his dying sister that he would tell no one. You need more than that?
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 18:51     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


The way Catelyn rashly started the whole War of the Five Kings based on a letter from her crazy conniving sister? You'd trust her to keep cool about the whole Jon Snow is a Targaryen thing? A lovely castle and all at Riverrun, but the three Tully siblings were a rather weak lot.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 18:51     Subject: Game of Thrones
Anonymous wrote:Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.


It may have been part of the promise. I hate this fact too. I couldn't believe ned cheated. He must've seemed like a different person to catelynn.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 18:33     Subject: Game of Thrones
Okay, Lyanna pledges Ned to secrecy and Ned takes Baby Jon home and passes him off as his bastard son. I can buy that part. But why wouldn't Ned bring Caitlynn -- his own wife -- in on the deception? It would make things easier in the long run, and it would avoid the whole Caitlynn mistreats Jon thing which must have been hard to bear.

I just can't fathom Ned not telling Caitlynn about this.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2016 18:29     Subject: Game of Thrones
I wonder if Malisandre will run into Brienne. That might serve to tie up that particular loose end.