Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the Doctor's Post above: You mention that the highest percentage you treat are hand, etc., while the highest percentage you refer are head injuries. This seems logical since i don't know how many patients with head injuries would normally first see an ortho surgeon. Please correct me if i am wrong. What is the % of head injury referrals for lax injuries versus hand/soft tissue that you proceed to treat? I am not quarreling with anything you say which seems reasonable and it makes sense that the more participants in lax the higher the raw number of injuries versus football which may both be in decline as well as in a reinvention mode in terms of avoiding head injuries and taking seriously those that occur (versus "got his bell rung" mentality).

Just trying to probe a little more because you have first-hand experience. Thanks for your input.

PS - I recognize this interrupts the Madlax-VLC battle. IMO this makes the sport look childish and feeds the perception of the sport by others as non-serious.

Our practice group has numerous specialists including neck and spine specialists, and we see a number of patients that are referred by or to other specialist groups. To clarify, I introduce no clinical data or conclusions here but there are researchers at Hopkins, GW and other regional university hospitals which do specialize in head trauma. Hence, we would refer a head trauma case to one of those specialist groups. I treat a lot of hand bone and tissue cases for lacrosse and note there are increased trends we have observed for head trauma for youth and high school aged participants, but that the research in this field for size or age deltas among participants is scarce thus far. If I were giving advice, I would advise parents to be cautious about what is commonly termed as playing up into higher age participant categories because of the size and strength variances.

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately many of us are not playing our kids up, other parents are playing their kids down.

The lacrosse leagues categorize kids by graduation year in HS not their age so a 2018 graduate could have been born 9/1/2000-8/31/2002. There could be a full TWO year difference in age. The schools that encourage this have many fall hold backs, making them up to 2 years older than a regular senior and 3 years older than a junior. I agree that Freshman should not play Varsity contact sports unless they went through an early puberty or are held back themselves (most are). But even if a child is a normal size they are forced to compete against kids that should already be in college or not play the sport.

I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from. A 2018 graduate could be born from 9/1/1999 to 8/31/2000. There may be parents who held there 6/1/99 to 8/31/99 which would be 2017 graduates to 2018. but that is not 2 years.

a 8/31/2002 kid would be 16 when they graduate HS. I have not yet seen any kid on my child's lacrosse teams that is that young nor had any kids who arre 13 entering HS.

sorry typo

2020 graduate could have been born 9/1/2000-8/31/2002

for

2018 they could be born 9/1/1999 to 8/31/2001

Actually multiple kids are entering HS as 13 year olds in the past because MoCo cut off use to be December 31st. They changed that about 2005 so many September, November, December kids were going to HS as 13 year olds. But most are not starting this year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the Doctor's Post above: You mention that the highest percentage you treat are hand, etc., while the highest percentage you refer are head injuries. This seems logical since i don't know how many patients with head injuries would normally first see an ortho surgeon. Please correct me if i am wrong. What is the % of head injury referrals for lax injuries versus hand/soft tissue that you proceed to treat? I am not quarreling with anything you say which seems reasonable and it makes sense that the more participants in lax the higher the raw number of injuries versus football which may both be in decline as well as in a reinvention mode in terms of avoiding head injuries and taking seriously those that occur (versus "got his bell rung" mentality).

Just trying to probe a little more because you have first-hand experience. Thanks for your input.

PS - I recognize this interrupts the Madlax-VLC battle. IMO this makes the sport look childish and feeds the perception of the sport by others as non-serious.

Our practice group has numerous specialists including neck and spine specialists, and we see a number of patients that are referred by or to other specialist groups. To clarify, I introduce no clinical data or conclusions here but there are researchers at Hopkins, GW and other regional university hospitals which do specialize in head trauma. Hence, we would refer a head trauma case to one of those specialist groups. I treat a lot of hand bone and tissue cases for lacrosse and note there are increased trends we have observed for head trauma for youth and high school aged participants, but that the research in this field for size or age deltas among participants is scarce thus far. If I were giving advice, I would advise parents to be cautious about what is commonly termed as playing up into higher age participant categories because of the size and strength variances.

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately many of us are not playing our kids up, other parents are playing their kids down.

The lacrosse leagues categorize kids by graduation year in HS not their age so a 2018 graduate could have been born 9/1/2000-8/31/2002. There could be a full TWO year difference in age. The schools that encourage this have many fall hold backs, making them up to 2 years older than a regular senior and 3 years older than a junior. I agree that Freshman should not play Varsity contact sports unless they went through an early puberty or are held back themselves (most are). But even if a child is a normal size they are forced to compete against kids that should already be in college or not play the sport.

I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from. A 2018 graduate could be born from 9/1/1999 to 8/31/2000. There may be parents who held there 6/1/99 to 8/31/99 which would be 2017 graduates to 2018. but that is not 2 years.

a 8/31/2002 kid would be 16 when they graduate HS. I have not yet seen any kid on my child's lacrosse teams that is that young nor had any kids who arre 13 entering HS.

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is this issue will be argued over without anything changing until a kid is seriously injured or worse.

This is true because one or more people are using DCUM to work out their own issues by, among other things, trying to de-legitimize the accomplishments of high school student athletes. As a community we should celebrate our young people, but some just don't see it that way.

The sad thing is this issue will be argued over without anything changing until a kid is seriously injured or worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the Doctor's Post above: You mention that the highest percentage you treat are hand, etc., while the highest percentage you refer are head injuries. This seems logical since i don't know how many patients with head injuries would normally first see an ortho surgeon. Please correct me if i am wrong. What is the % of head injury referrals for lax injuries versus hand/soft tissue that you proceed to treat? I am not quarreling with anything you say which seems reasonable and it makes sense that the more participants in lax the higher the raw number of injuries versus football which may both be in decline as well as in a reinvention mode in terms of avoiding head injuries and taking seriously those that occur (versus "got his bell rung" mentality).

Just trying to probe a little more because you have first-hand experience. Thanks for your input.

PS - I recognize this interrupts the Madlax-VLC battle. IMO this makes the sport look childish and feeds the perception of the sport by others as non-serious.

Our practice group has numerous specialists including neck and spine specialists, and we see a number of patients that are referred by or to other specialist groups. To clarify, I introduce no clinical data or conclusions here but there are researchers at Hopkins, GW and other regional university hospitals which do specialize in head trauma. Hence, we would refer a head trauma case to one of those specialist groups. I treat a lot of hand bone and tissue cases for lacrosse and note there are increased trends we have observed for head trauma for youth and high school aged participants, but that the research in this field for size or age deltas among participants is scarce thus far. If I were giving advice, I would advise parents to be cautious about what is commonly termed as playing up into higher age participant categories because of the size and strength variances.

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately many of us are not playing our kids up, other parents are playing their kids down.

The lacrosse leagues categorize kids by graduation year in HS not their age so a 2018 graduate could have been born 9/1/2000-8/31/2002. There could be a full TWO year difference in age. The schools that encourage this have many fall hold backs, making them up to 2 years older than a regular senior and 3 years older than a junior. I agree that Freshman should not play Varsity contact sports unless they went through an early puberty or are held back themselves (most are). But even if a child is a normal size they are forced to compete against kids that should already be in college or not play the sport.

Thanks to the doctor's post above with clarification and advice.

Anonymous wrote:why is there a Mad Lax vs VLC feud going on to begin with.

Both programs are quite strong and I'm sure kids jump ship from program to program if their son is not getting enough playing time.

It just seems odd to me be that grown adults talk so negative about other kids, schools and now other club lacrosse teams on this website.

It is isolated to a small number of MadLax and VLC parents. It is sad, but is also a virus isolated to a few Great Falls moms and dads who represent the worst of it we read here and elsewhere. We all know who they are on the sidelines, and know better than to engage them in any lacrosse related discussions. This all started over one kid leaving MadLax and then the spite in all directions started and never stopped. We have had a great experience with our son's VLC team and families, but we are also thankfully still in the middle schoolboy aged teams where we can avoid most of this. It is embarrassing, and on the bright side once these high school teams age out of the system the next generation can hopefully have more class.

Anonymous wrote:Question for the Doctor's Post above: You mention that the highest percentage you treat are hand, etc., while the highest percentage you refer are head injuries. This seems logical since i don't know how many patients with head injuries would normally first see an ortho surgeon. Please correct me if i am wrong. What is the % of head injury referrals for lax injuries versus hand/soft tissue that you proceed to treat? I am not quarreling with anything you say which seems reasonable and it makes sense that the more participants in lax the higher the raw number of injuries versus football which may both be in decline as well as in a reinvention mode in terms of avoiding head injuries and taking seriously those that occur (versus "got his bell rung" mentality).

Just trying to probe a little more because you have first-hand experience. Thanks for your input.

PS - I recognize this interrupts the Madlax-VLC battle. IMO this makes the sport look childish and feeds the perception of the sport by others as non-serious.

Our practice group has numerous specialists including neck and spine specialists, and we see a number of patients that are referred by or to other specialist groups. To clarify, I introduce no clinical data or conclusions here but there are researchers at Hopkins, GW and other regional university hospitals which do specialize in head trauma. Hence, we would refer a head trauma case to one of those specialist groups. I treat a lot of hand bone and tissue cases for lacrosse and note there are increased trends we have observed for head trauma for youth and high school aged participants, but that the research in this field for size or age deltas among participants is scarce thus far. If I were giving advice, I would advise parents to be cautious about what is commonly termed as playing up into higher age participant categories because of the size and strength variances.

why is there a Mad Lax vs VLC feud going on to begin with.

Both programs are quite strong and I'm sure kids jump ship from program to program if their son is not getting enough playing time.

It just seems odd to me be that grown adults talk so negative about other kids, schools and now other club lacrosse teams on this website.

MadLax and VLC team moms need to get out of the Great Falls Starbucks and book time in a boxing ring and get off this thread. Yes, we know who you are and sorry neither of your sons are good enough at lacrosse to play Division 1 hence the infatuation to brag and living off the club credentials.

Question for the Doctor's Post above: You mention that the highest percentage you treat are hand, etc., while the highest percentage you refer are head injuries. This seems logical since i don't know how many patients with head injuries would normally first see an ortho surgeon. Please correct me if i am wrong. What is the % of head injury referrals for lax injuries versus hand/soft tissue that you proceed to treat? I am not quarreling with anything you say which seems reasonable and it makes sense that the more participants in lax the higher the raw number of injuries versus football which may both be in decline as well as in a reinvention mode in terms of avoiding head injuries and taking seriously those that occur (versus "got his bell rung" mentality).

Just trying to probe a little more because you have first-hand experience. Thanks for your input.

PS - I recognize this interrupts the Madlax-VLC battle. IMO this makes the sport look childish and feeds the perception of the sport by others as non-serious.

I'm a local ortho surgeon who read over some of this, and have a response. The highest incident of lacrosse player injuries I treat are hand and finger bone or tissue related. The number of cases rises with the popularity of lacrosse adding participants. The largest percentage lacrosse injuries we refer are head trauma related. What is disturbing is the baseline statistics for youth and high school football head trauma injuries has been trending down, while lacrosse has been trending up. Football still has a higher rate of head trauma injuries at the youth and high school levels over lacrosse but it is lacrosse that has distinctly trended upwards. There is no conclusive data yet to suggest why this is the case because head trauma injuries are not indexed in a level of detail to identify injuries rates with age or weight of the participant which collided with the injured participant. I do believe there is some causality to explain why head trauma injuries are rising for lacrosse players, and the safety issue of younger and smaller participants is a shared theory but we have no data yet to prove it. I would agree that contact sport participation with large age or size participant spreads at the youth and high school levels is a material risk to the safety of participants, and do not endorse such participation.

Anonymous wrote:Are Prospect Days worthwhile, or just another money pit?

If you are a 9th grader not interested in D1, but rather D3, does it make sense to attend prospect days in 9th and 10th grade?

Get used to it . It's only going to get worst .

You are foolish to think its only lacrosse parents who have adopted this practice.

Reclassified is an interesting word for it.
Flunk?
Fail?

To purposefully have your kid repeat a grade for athletic advantage is sad.