Anonymous wrote:Something very interesting about this case...Why don't we have a mugshot of this guy? Convicted of three felonies, but no mugshot. Lots of pictures of him looking like a "such a nice boy" But hey, there's no privilege here.

It seems the mugshot came out AFTER the trials and verdict. Until then, we only saw the clean cut all-American boy dressed in his best for school pics

wish people would stop calling it rape. it was sexual assault. rape charges were dropped.

would be interested to read examination and cross-examination of victim but unable to find. here is the complaint with statements by involved persons: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1532973/complaint-brock-turner.pdf

Brock raped her! The jury of his peers returned a guilty verdict. He is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Should be in jail where some guy name Rufus will take care of his lily white little ass.

Let me say this right now as a man and a father. If he were my son, he would be in a sh*tload of trouble beyond what the law provides and he would face the music.

Only once in my life back in college when I was drunk did I make a stupid decision - it did not involve actively raping someone - but I was conscious enough at the time to know what I was doing was wrong and did it anyway. So, no, I do not buy his "I was confused bit."

I've also been with women who've had too much to drink as have I at the same time, but never once did I used that situation to take advantage of her. Believe me, whatever sex occurred then, was quiet consensual.

My boys know to respect women and treat them well. As for my daughter's I hope they will keep their wits about them as they cannot trust any male, but in such a case as this I hope they crush the balls of any motherf*cker who tries to rape them. If they can't I will.

Hey Brock Turner's Dad - you're a shitbag. F*ck you and your bad parenting. Too bad your son blew his ride. Maybe next time you'll raise your kids better.

Based on his father's letter, Brock has probably been coddled since he was born. A job of a parent is to teach their children the concept of responsibility and taking ownership for one's actions. And, simply teaching them right from wrong. My son, now 33, has two younger sisters. When he was in high school I told him that he should treat girls the way he would want his sisters treated and to always make his mother proud. I didn't lecture him but I did try to set a high bar for him to think about. He's now a great husband, dad and very successful. With my daughters I was more explicit about what college guys were interested in (getting drunk and getting laid) and to be careful. One said "Dad, they've been like this in high school and I've dealt with it!".

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Anonymous wrote:What if she drank so much that she died. That instead of being unconscious he was actually not moving because she wasn't breathing anymore. He wouldn't have noticed, but would you have thought she was more to blame because she was wearing the lace up boots? She was completely immobilized. He was raping her while she was unconscious. I'm not sure if she had done 200 shots that would have influenced the behavior of the other person who was raping her...

If she drank so much she was unconscious don't you think he was too drunk to notice his date was too drunk. At this point she probably should have been going to the hospital to have her stomach pumped. Was that his responsibility?

If she died would you have blamed him? her sister? the person that forced her to drink ... oh wait she is 24 ... should she be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor... did she know underage people were drinking....yes of course she did... did she know her date was under 21? and she was drinking with him, even though he was 17....

So to recap this general argument that keeps cropping up:

Emily Doe was drunk, so it's her fault she was raped. She should have been more aware.
Brock was drunk, so it's not his fault he raped someone. He couldn't have been fully aware.

No. let me recap... Emily was drunk and having sex ... Brock was drunk and having sex... .Emily passed out... Brock did not notice.... Brock is a rapist.

I agree he is a rapist.

Emily is >21, Brock is <21, Emily was drinking with Brock... .Emily was contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

There should be a law that if you report your rape while committing a crime you will not be charged, just like if you are committing a crime (drinking) and need to call 911 you to save a life, you will not be charged.

But she was committing a crime, that is all. How many people don't report because they have to admit they were committing a crime.

What a weird, warped person you are.

This is why college campuses should not handle rape case. As you can see from the pages here... people can't handle the truth about rapes. They can't really handle the whole truth.

People get raped all the time while committing a crime... prostitution, drugs, underage drinking... many don't report because of the fact that they think they will get in trouble.

Hey, dumbass. On the scale of severity of crime, rape is way, WAY worse than underage drinking. How dare you even equate the two?

I didn't... but how many straight A, perfect students are afraid to tell their parents they got raped after they drank and smoked pot. Many.

Uh, no. They are not afraid to report because mom is going to be mad they drank. They're afraid to report because of people like you who will say it's their fault or otherwise assign blame or not believe them or take the side of the attacker. Your ignorance is really astounding.

Actually your ignorance is astounding. I want there to be a law that rape victims will not be charged with a crime if they are raped while committing a crime. I am on the side of the victim.

I also want to get rid of alcohol on campuses.
I also want there to be free counseling for rape victims.
I also want to change the laws so rape victims can sue in civil court for the cost of therapy.

You just want to pray to the gods that men will become less of pigs.

There's nothing I can see that prevents rape victims from suing in civil court for the cost of therapy and/or seeking damages. More info here:
https://victimsofcrime.org/help-for-crime-victims/get-help-bulletins-for-crime-victims/restitution

Anonymous wrote:The only time anyone cares about these "rape" stories is when it's an elite white boy. I was raped by 2 black men...no one cared. Their rap sheets were as long as could be. They only got 2 years in jail and went on to rape a lot more people. No one writes about them.

I'm very sorry that that happened to you, and that your rapes were not taken seriously. I don't think it was solely a function of the criminal's race: rape isn't taken seriously, period. Violence against women still isn't taken seriously. Hell, people act like "women's issues" are some sort of preciously mockable special interest group's pet project.

I wish you peace.

The only time anyone cares about these "rape" stories is when it's an elite white boy. I was raped by 2 black men...no one cared. Their rap sheets were as long as could be. They only got 2 years in jail and went on to rape a lot more people. No one writes about them.

Rape deniers?! WTF? You are really f-ed up.

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What exactly are you expecting to happen? You want to be able to stumble bum around black out drunk whenever/wherever you please with the GUARANTEE that nothing bad will happen to you? Ha. Dream on.

Not the PP, but I think the desirable situation would be that if you are stumbling around drunk and someone attacks you, more blame is placed on the attacker than on you. I learned defensive driving in drivers ed. That has been useful on the road when someone is clearly swerving and/or speeding recklessly. If they hit me, though, the reaction is not likely to be, "Did you remember to drive defensively?" as opposed to, "Why was that person driving 115mph and changing lanes?"

It's not BLAME. It's preparing ourselves for the future. You hear about that terrible accident and tell your kids "don't drive recklessly AND do drive defensively." You even might say "there are angry drivers out there, just be cool so you don't trigger road rage."

But if your kid WAS hit by an angry driver and lying in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down would you say, "Well, you really should have been driving defensively. What did you do to make the driver so angry, anyway?"

NO. So why is it okay to do that for rape?

We aren't talking to the victim here. We are preparing our children and ourselves for the world.

+100! You're trying to have a "conversation" with the wind. The posters making these comments are going to turn everything you say to try to make it look like you don't care about rape victims. Any reasonable, intelligent person would know that's not what you mean. I'm female, and a very dear friend was raped in a dorm room. It's beyond foolish to say we're laying blame on innocent victims because we're trying to share with others how to minimize the risk. My friend is now a leader in teaching young women how to try to minimize risk. The RAINN article someone posted gives tips.

Yeah, rape deniers are the REAL victims in this debacle

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Anonymous wrote:according to certain posts here it would be justified to rape drunk people male or female I suppose right?. Hey, do not get drunk or you might exposed yourself to be raped by someone or something. Imagine if guys would have the fear of getting drunk because of this possibility.

No one is saying it's justified to rape anyone at any time, drunk or not. They are saying that you're exposing yourself to all kinds of bad possibilities when you're too drunk to know your surroundings or what's going on.

I'm starting to wander if the posts about not getting drunk are coming from just one or 2 people. I think everybody understands how drinking can cause many bad things to happen, but it feels like every few posts is shoving this point down our throats.

I'm thinking that there are one or two people who don't want to admit the role of alcohol. Read the research.

https://rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence Three quarters of rapists are known to their victim. What shall women do: never befriend men? Cloister? Chastity belt? Never, ever drink, ever, because people like you and similarly obtuse posters just have to believe rape is under the control of the woman.

Strangely, RAINN doesn"t talk a lot about alcohol and rape. I wonder why.

You are misdirecting your anger. If you need to think that women have zero control over their lives at all times just to deal with your own recovery, then fine. Get off a thread about rape and go mull that over in private. No need to lash out at other women who are thinking in practical terms about ways they can minimize their risk.

My post reads angrily to you? Hmm. I've never been raped, and I don't drink. I take normal safety precautions. My irritation is that on every fucking one of these threads, it's "women need to watch themselves and their behavior," every time. Every time. It's tired. It's not the issue. The issue is that women - old, young, sober, shitfaced, virgin, prostitute are raped, every day. And somehow the story always circles back to what they did or didn't do to cause it or prevent it.

There is a reason you hear about date rape in association with drunken behavior.

You almost never hear about the sober college kids in Biology class raping each other on the way to English class. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of that.

If you don't think that the risk elevates MUCH higher in certain scenarios under certain conditions you are wrong. There is most definitely a connection between drunkeness, sexual behavior (kissing/making out/dancing at a party) and date rape/sexual assault.

Then you haven't heard much. On the way to biology class? No. At a study session, in a closed dorm room? Yes. I have heard of that.

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What exactly are you expecting to happen? You want to be able to stumble bum around black out drunk whenever/wherever you please with the GUARANTEE that nothing bad will happen to you? Ha. Dream on.

Not the PP, but I think the desirable situation would be that if you are stumbling around drunk and someone attacks you, more blame is placed on the attacker than on you. I learned defensive driving in drivers ed. That has been useful on the road when someone is clearly swerving and/or speeding recklessly. If they hit me, though, the reaction is not likely to be, "Did you remember to drive defensively?" as opposed to, "Why was that person driving 115mph and changing lanes?"

It's not BLAME. It's preparing ourselves for the future. You hear about that terrible accident and tell your kids "don't drive recklessly AND do drive defensively." You even might say "there are angry drivers out there, just be cool so you don't trigger road rage."

But if your kid WAS hit by an angry driver and lying in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down would you say, "Well, you really should have been driving defensively. What did you do to make the driver so angry, anyway?"

NO. So why is it okay to do that for rape?

We aren't talking to the victim here. We are preparing our children and ourselves for the world.

+100! You're trying to have a "conversation" with the wind. The posters making these comments are going to turn everything you say to try to make it look like you don't care about rape victims. Any reasonable, intelligent person would know that's not what you mean. I'm female, and a very dear friend was raped in a dorm room. It's beyond foolish to say we're laying blame on innocent victims because we're trying to share with others how to minimize the risk. My friend is now a leader in teaching young women how to try to minimize risk. The RAINN article someone posted gives tips.

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What exactly are you expecting to happen? You want to be able to stumble bum around black out drunk whenever/wherever you please with the GUARANTEE that nothing bad will happen to you? Ha. Dream on.

Not the PP, but I think the desirable situation would be that if you are stumbling around drunk and someone attacks you, more blame is placed on the attacker than on you. I learned defensive driving in drivers ed. That has been useful on the road when someone is clearly swerving and/or speeding recklessly. If they hit me, though, the reaction is not likely to be, "Did you remember to drive defensively?" as opposed to, "Why was that person driving 115mph and changing lanes?"

It's not BLAME. It's preparing ourselves for the future. You hear about that terrible accident and tell your kids "don't drive recklessly AND do drive defensively." You even might say "there are angry drivers out there, just be cool so you don't trigger road rage."

But if your kid WAS hit by an angry driver and lying in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down would you say, "Well, you really should have been driving defensively. What did you do to make the driver so angry, anyway?"

NO. So why is it okay to do that for rape?

We aren't talking to the victim here. We are preparing our children and ourselves for the world.

So because you want to pretend if you teach enough lessons stuff like this can't happen to your kids, you will withhold empathy from a person to whom it did happen.

Huh? I hope it doesn't happen, but I don't think it can't happen. Is it really so wrong to try to minimize risk? And this is just one semi-controllable situation. Some violence happens beyond any control.

And why do you assume I don't have sympathy for Emily? I can't feel bad for her AND want to try to prevent this from happening to myself and my kids, at least the best we can.

It is crazy that people do not want to put things in place to make college campus's safer. It's like safety belts, we know there are bad drivers everywhere, so we need to protect ourselves.

Men rape... we need to put things in place that protect us from rapists.

Yes. And women flirt, lead men on and lie about it. Young men need to be taught about the Jackies, too.

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What exactly are you expecting to happen? You want to be able to stumble bum around black out drunk whenever/wherever you please with the GUARANTEE that nothing bad will happen to you? Ha. Dream on.

Not the PP, but I think the desirable situation would be that if you are stumbling around drunk and someone attacks you, more blame is placed on the attacker than on you. I learned defensive driving in drivers ed. That has been useful on the road when someone is clearly swerving and/or speeding recklessly. If they hit me, though, the reaction is not likely to be, "Did you remember to drive defensively?" as opposed to, "Why was that person driving 115mph and changing lanes?"

It's not BLAME. It's preparing ourselves for the future. You hear about that terrible accident and tell your kids "don't drive recklessly AND do drive defensively." You even might say "there are angry drivers out there, just be cool so you don't trigger road rage."

But if your kid WAS hit by an angry driver and lying in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down would you say, "Well, you really should have been driving defensively. What did you do to make the driver so angry, anyway?"

NO. So why is it okay to do that for rape?

We aren't talking to the victim here. We are preparing our children and ourselves for the world.

So because you want to pretend if you teach enough lessons stuff like this can't happen to your kids, you will withhold empathy from a person to whom it did happen.

Huh? I hope it doesn't happen, but I don't think it can't happen. Is it really so wrong to try to minimize risk? And this is just one semi-controllable situation. Some violence happens beyond any control.

And why do you assume I don't have sympathy for Emily? I can't feel bad for her AND want to try to prevent this from happening to myself and my kids, at least the best we can.

It is crazy that people do not want to put things in place to make college campus's safer. It's like safety belts, we know there are bad drivers everywhere, so we need to protect ourselves.

Men rape... we need to put things in place that protect us from rapists.

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What exactly are you expecting to happen? You want to be able to stumble bum around black out drunk whenever/wherever you please with the GUARANTEE that nothing bad will happen to you? Ha. Dream on.

Not the PP, but I think the desirable situation would be that if you are stumbling around drunk and someone attacks you, more blame is placed on the attacker than on you. I learned defensive driving in drivers ed. That has been useful on the road when someone is clearly swerving and/or speeding recklessly. If they hit me, though, the reaction is not likely to be, "Did you remember to drive defensively?" as opposed to, "Why was that person driving 115mph and changing lanes?"

It's not BLAME. It's preparing ourselves for the future. You hear about that terrible accident and tell your kids "don't drive recklessly AND do drive defensively." You even might say "there are angry drivers out there, just be cool so you don't trigger road rage."

But if your kid WAS hit by an angry driver and lying in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down would you say, "Well, you really should have been driving defensively. What did you do to make the driver so angry, anyway?"

NO. So why is it okay to do that for rape?

We aren't talking to the victim here. We are preparing our children and ourselves for the world.

So because you want to pretend if you teach enough lessons stuff like this can't happen to your kids, you will withhold empathy from a person to whom it did happen.

Huh? I hope it doesn't happen, but I don't think it can't happen. Is it really so wrong to try to minimize risk? And this is just one semi-controllable situation. Some violence happens beyond any control.

And why do you assume I don't have sympathy for Emily? I can't feel bad for her AND want to try to prevent this from happening to myself and my kids, at least the best we can.