Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.

So it seems unlikely that the “eye witnesses” write down their accounts.

The fact that Christianity spread so quickly by oral tradition—Paul’s original job just 20 years after the cruxifixion was to stamp it out—speaks to how prevalent and compelling this oral tradition was.

Paul learned about Jesus from his own and Jesus’ contemporaries.

As the original generation started to die, and after the destruction of the temple in 70AD, there was more impetus to put everything in writing. Mark probably predates that though. In fact, there’s a lot of disagreement—some scholars think Matthew was written only 10 years after Jesus’ death, others say much longer.

Oral history was the common way of communicating at the time, because even if a select few could read and write, the masses mostly couldn't. Most mythologies were orally transmitted. Greek mythology, for example, is still known today, but we don't consider it divine anymore. Something being a compelling oral narrative doesn't make it True (with a capital T).

Just curious. How many times are you going to repeat essentially the same posts about mythologies?

Clearly the people who were talking about Jesus in the first decades after his death saw and heard something they thought was special. Or someone they trusted talked about something they saw that was special. We’re not talking about the centuries-long development of Greek mythology here.

“Christianity” evolved over centuries. There are no primary sources.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet the Jesus deniers believe in aliens + big bang theory, which have zero evidence.

This is a bad, bad troll. for so many reasons. I'll make this simple:

There are no Jesus deniers here.
There is no evidence Jesus was a god, or that there is a god of any kind.
There is no evidence of aliens.
There is massive evidence supporting the big bang theory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.

So it seems unlikely that the “eye witnesses” write down their accounts.

The fact that Christianity spread so quickly by oral tradition—Paul’s original job just 20 years after the cruxifixion was to stamp it out—speaks to how prevalent and compelling this oral tradition was.

Paul learned about Jesus from his own and Jesus’ contemporaries.

As the original generation started to die, and after the destruction of the temple in 70AD, there was more impetus to put everything in writing. Mark probably predates that though. In fact, there’s a lot of disagreement—some scholars think Matthew was written only 10 years after Jesus’ death, others say much longer.

Oral history was the common way of communicating at the time, because even if a select few could read and write, the masses mostly couldn't. Most mythologies were orally transmitted. Greek mythology, for example, is still known today, but we don't consider it divine anymore. Something being a compelling oral narrative doesn't make it True (with a capital T).

Just curious. How many times are you going to repeat essentially the same posts about mythologies?

Clearly the people who were talking about Jesus in the first decades after his death saw and heard something they thought was special. Or someone they trusted talked about something they saw that was special. We’re not talking about the centuries-long development of Greek mythology here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.

So it seems unlikely that the “eye witnesses” write down their accounts.

The fact that Christianity spread so quickly by oral tradition—Paul’s original job just 20 years after the cruxifixion was to stamp it out—speaks to how prevalent and compelling this oral tradition was.

Paul learned about Jesus from his own and Jesus’ contemporaries.

As the original generation started to die, and after the destruction of the temple in 70AD, there was more impetus to put everything in writing. Mark probably predates that though. In fact, there’s a lot of disagreement—some scholars think Matthew was written only 10 years after Jesus’ death, others say much longer.

Oral history was the common way of communicating at the time, because even if a select few could read and write, the masses mostly couldn't. Most mythologies were orally transmitted. Greek mythology, for example, is still known today, but we don't consider it divine anymore. Something being a compelling oral narrative doesn't make it True (with a capital T).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.

So it seems unlikely that the “eye witnesses” write down their accounts.

The fact that Christianity spread so quickly by oral tradition—Paul’s original job just 20 years after the cruxifixion was to stamp it out—speaks to how prevalent and compelling this oral tradition was.

Paul learned about Jesus from his own and Jesus’ contemporaries.

As the original generation started to die, and after the destruction of the temple in 70AD, there was more impetus to put everything in writing. Mark probably predates that though. In fact, there’s a lot of disagreement—some scholars think Matthew was written only 10 years after Jesus’ death, others say much longer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.

So it seems unlikely that the “eye witnesses” write down their accounts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

You can be a Jesus truther and deny him, and join the flat earthers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers, etc. Not great company to be in.

I was just commenting on the nature of the evidence. It's not strong, but I'm not a denier either.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and attempts to deny his historicity have been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.

So those who deny Christ was a historical figure know more than every scholar in the Western world?

It’s really arrogant to think you know more than the academics and scholars who overwhelmingly agree Christ was a historical figure. They accept the evidence; why don’t you?

Zero PPs have denied his existence.

Seems like you have trouble with facts/reality.

OP seems to believe Christ is a myth. That's why this thread exists. But we all know the question is moot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

You can be a Jesus truther and deny him, and join the flat earthers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers, etc. Not great company to be in.

I was just commenting on the nature of the evidence. It's not strong, but I'm not a denier either.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and attempts to deny his historicity have been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.

So those who deny Christ was a historical figure know more than every scholar in the Western world?

It’s really arrogant to think you know more than the academics and scholars who overwhelmingly agree Christ was a historical figure. They accept the evidence; why don’t you?

Zero PPs have denied his existence.

Seems like you have trouble with facts/reality.

OP seems to believe Christ is a myth. That's why this thread exists. But we all know the question is moot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

You can be a Jesus truther and deny him, and join the flat earthers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers, etc. Not great company to be in.

I was just commenting on the nature of the evidence. It's not strong, but I'm not a denier either.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and attempts to deny his historicity have been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.

So those who deny Christ was a historical figure know more than every scholar in the Western world?

It’s really arrogant to think you know more than the academics and scholars who overwhelmingly agree Christ was a historical figure. They accept the evidence; why don’t you?

Zero PPs have denied his existence.

Seems like you have trouble with facts/reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

You can be a Jesus truther and deny him, and join the flat earthers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers, etc. Not great company to be in.

I was just commenting on the nature of the evidence. It's not strong, but I'm not a denier either.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and attempts to deny his historicity have been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.

So those who deny Christ was a historical figure know more than every scholar in the Western world?

It’s really arrogant to think you know more than the academics and scholars who overwhelmingly agree Christ was a historical figure. They accept the evidence; why don’t you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.

Anonymous wrote:I bet the Jesus deniers believe in aliens + big bang theory, which have zero evidence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

You can be a Jesus truther and deny him, and join the flat earthers, climate change deniers, holocaust deniers, etc. Not great company to be in.

I was just commenting on the nature of the evidence. It's not strong, but I'm not a denier either.

Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and attempts to deny his historicity have been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.

So those who deny Christ was a historical figure know more than every scholar in the Western world?

It’s really arrogant to think you know more than the academics and scholars who overwhelmingly agree Christ was a historical figure. They accept the evidence; why don’t you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence.

Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"

There is evidence (fact). Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual.

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any. But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive.

What would constitute "direct evidence?" Perhaps if an eye witness wrote down their account in a book, and we have that book? Like, the Bible?

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate?