Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

Yes, Roman was the only one I sort of liked before. Not anymore!

I keep on getting whiplash from sympathizing with the Roy kids and then immediately hating them all within the same episode.

Right, it's one of the genius things about the show. They trick you into rooting for one of the characters and then yank the rug out by reminding you of how awful each of them actually is

Yes!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

It's crazy that of the four of them, Connor is the one who is turning out to have the most maturity and good sense when it comes to relationships.

Though in retrospect it kind of makes sense, because Connor is the only one of the four who ever seemed to understand on any level that (1) Logan was never going to give him the love or approval he craves, and (2) so you might as well just enjoy the money. At the beginning of the show, he's just off living on his big ranch out West away from all the Waystar craziness. He gets drawn in a bit in the second season, but ultimately still decides to go do his own thing and run for president. I mean, it's ridiculous and he's ridiculous, but it's also perversely admirable that he's just like "I'm really rich and my family sucks -- I'm just going to please myself." So he does. Good for him.

I also loved that Willa told him to stay in the race and the reasoning she gave him because it's so sensible. He came all this way and spent all this money, might as well see what happens, plus Menken is awful ("all my friends and family hate him") so eff that guy, and who the heck wants to go live in Oman when you are rich enough to live somewhere you actually want? Like why take a 3rd rate diplomatic posting when you could just go buy a really nice apartment in London or Paris or Berlin tomorrow and just live there without having to work? Willa is smarter than any of them.

I never understood how he ended up with her. She was an escort or something like that and everyone was embarrassed by her. He's reasonably attractive, has tons of money so he wouldn't need an escort. That never made sense to me.

Not sure but she’s in the second episode. Connor calls her from the hospital and asks her to come. They never say how he initially met/hired her but she’s been in his life a long time.

Yeah, I don't really understand why a good-looking billionaire was with an escort in the first place. But, I think it might relate to his fear of abandonment - I'm thinking about how afraid he was that she would leave during the wedding episode, and of course the trauma of losing his mom as a young kid. Maybe he felt like having an explicit paid relationship was the most reliable way to keep someone in his life, vs. a more run-of-the-mill gold-digger who could bail at any time

+1 This explains a lot.

In this episode the cracks in the kid's relationships were more obvious. There were some subtle tells that Roman, Ken, and Shiv realize what each is doing. They cut to Roman at one point when Kendall was insulting their dad and at another point, he seemed to realize Kendall plans to take it all for himself. I felt like that was the real reason he approached Gerri. Both he and Shiv realized they have no one on their side. Kendall realized what Shiv was doing when he sent Greg to interfere. We got reminded in a big way that Shiv is seeing that not a single man around her is trustworthy including her husband.

Not a single healthy relationship to be seen in this show.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

It's crazy that of the four of them, Connor is the one who is turning out to have the most maturity and good sense when it comes to relationships.

Though in retrospect it kind of makes sense, because Connor is the only one of the four who ever seemed to understand on any level that (1) Logan was never going to give him the love or approval he craves, and (2) so you might as well just enjoy the money. At the beginning of the show, he's just off living on his big ranch out West away from all the Waystar craziness. He gets drawn in a bit in the second season, but ultimately still decides to go do his own thing and run for president. I mean, it's ridiculous and he's ridiculous, but it's also perversely admirable that he's just like "I'm really rich and my family sucks -- I'm just going to please myself." So he does. Good for him.

I also loved that Willa told him to stay in the race and the reasoning she gave him because it's so sensible. He came all this way and spent all this money, might as well see what happens, plus Menken is awful ("all my friends and family hate him") so eff that guy, and who the heck wants to go live in Oman when you are rich enough to live somewhere you actually want? Like why take a 3rd rate diplomatic posting when you could just go buy a really nice apartment in London or Paris or Berlin tomorrow and just live there without having to work? Willa is smarter than any of them.

I never understood how he ended up with her. She was an escort or something like that and everyone was embarrassed by her. He's reasonably attractive, has tons of money so he wouldn't need an escort. That never made sense to me.

Not sure but she’s in the second episode. Connor calls her from the hospital and asks her to come. They never say how he initially met/hired her but she’s been in his life a long time.

Yeah, I don't really understand why a good-looking billionaire was with an escort in the first place. But, I think it might relate to his fear of abandonment - I'm thinking about how afraid he was that she would leave during the wedding episode, and of course the trauma of losing his mom as a young kid. Maybe he felt like having an explicit paid relationship was the most reliable way to keep someone in his life, vs. a more run-of-the-mill gold-digger who could bail at any time

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

It's crazy that of the four of them, Connor is the one who is turning out to have the most maturity and good sense when it comes to relationships.

Though in retrospect it kind of makes sense, because Connor is the only one of the four who ever seemed to understand on any level that (1) Logan was never going to give him the love or approval he craves, and (2) so you might as well just enjoy the money. At the beginning of the show, he's just off living on his big ranch out West away from all the Waystar craziness. He gets drawn in a bit in the second season, but ultimately still decides to go do his own thing and run for president. I mean, it's ridiculous and he's ridiculous, but it's also perversely admirable that he's just like "I'm really rich and my family sucks -- I'm just going to please myself." So he does. Good for him.

I also loved that Willa told him to stay in the race and the reasoning she gave him because it's so sensible. He came all this way and spent all this money, might as well see what happens, plus Menken is awful ("all my friends and family hate him") so eff that guy, and who the heck wants to go live in Oman when you are rich enough to live somewhere you actually want? Like why take a 3rd rate diplomatic posting when you could just go buy a really nice apartment in London or Paris or Berlin tomorrow and just live there without having to work? Willa is smarter than any of them.

I never understood how he ended up with her. She was an escort or something like that and everyone was embarrassed by her. He's reasonably attractive, has tons of money so he wouldn't need an escort. That never made sense to me.

I think you give Connor too much credit. Connor has always been presented as an idiot who was so sheltered and coddled that he doesn't understand basic social etiquette. The family is embarrassed by him, and he used his money to live out the plot of Pretty Woman so he could earn a seat at the big kid's table. And I say this as someone who loves Connor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

Yes, Roman was the only one I sort of liked before. Not anymore!

I keep on getting whiplash from sympathizing with the Roy kids and then immediately hating them all within the same episode.

Right, it's one of the genius things about the show. They trick you into rooting for one of the characters and then yank the rug out by reminding you of how awful each of them actually is

Anonymous wrote:Did I miss how Geri got back in the fold? I thought her firing was pretty final a few weeks ago. I miss her having a more active role this season, she is a great actress.

I am annoyed at the way shivs talks. Is she ever not snarky or sarcastic?

Are you serious? How many seasons have you watched? Of course she is snarky and sarcastic. Your sexism is ridiculous. They all communicate like this. It isn't just the Roys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

It's crazy that of the four of them, Connor is the one who is turning out to have the most maturity and good sense when it comes to relationships.

Though in retrospect it kind of makes sense, because Connor is the only one of the four who ever seemed to understand on any level that (1) Logan was never going to give him the love or approval he craves, and (2) so you might as well just enjoy the money. At the beginning of the show, he's just off living on his big ranch out West away from all the Waystar craziness. He gets drawn in a bit in the second season, but ultimately still decides to go do his own thing and run for president. I mean, it's ridiculous and he's ridiculous, but it's also perversely admirable that he's just like "I'm really rich and my family sucks -- I'm just going to please myself." So he does. Good for him.

I also loved that Willa told him to stay in the race and the reasoning she gave him because it's so sensible. He came all this way and spent all this money, might as well see what happens, plus Menken is awful ("all my friends and family hate him") so eff that guy, and who the heck wants to go live in Oman when you are rich enough to live somewhere you actually want? Like why take a 3rd rate diplomatic posting when you could just go buy a really nice apartment in London or Paris or Berlin tomorrow and just live there without having to work? Willa is smarter than any of them.

I never understood how he ended up with her. She was an escort or something like that and everyone was embarrassed by her. He's reasonably attractive, has tons of money so he wouldn't need an escort. That never made sense to me.

Not sure but she’s in the second episode. Connor calls her from the hospital and asks her to come. They never say how he initially met/hired her but she’s been in his life a long time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

It's crazy that of the four of them, Connor is the one who is turning out to have the most maturity and good sense when it comes to relationships.

Though in retrospect it kind of makes sense, because Connor is the only one of the four who ever seemed to understand on any level that (1) Logan was never going to give him the love or approval he craves, and (2) so you might as well just enjoy the money. At the beginning of the show, he's just off living on his big ranch out West away from all the Waystar craziness. He gets drawn in a bit in the second season, but ultimately still decides to go do his own thing and run for president. I mean, it's ridiculous and he's ridiculous, but it's also perversely admirable that he's just like "I'm really rich and my family sucks -- I'm just going to please myself." So he does. Good for him.

I also loved that Willa told him to stay in the race and the reasoning she gave him because it's so sensible. He came all this way and spent all this money, might as well see what happens, plus Menken is awful ("all my friends and family hate him") so eff that guy, and who the heck wants to go live in Oman when you are rich enough to live somewhere you actually want? Like why take a 3rd rate diplomatic posting when you could just go buy a really nice apartment in London or Paris or Berlin tomorrow and just live there without having to work? Willa is smarter than any of them.

I never understood how he ended up with her. She was an escort or something like that and everyone was embarrassed by her. He's reasonably attractive, has tons of money so he wouldn't need an escort. That never made sense to me.

Something that occurred to me this episode: Shiv is the best actor/manipulator of the kids. Not talking about Sarah Snook, but about Shiv, the character.

When Kendall and Roman decide to try to tank the GoJo deal, Shiv sniffs it out instantly. She immediately recognizes Kendall's fingerprints on media items badmouthing their dad, she immediately calls them on their lame attempts to discredit Lukas, even compares it to when they use to lie about stuff to get her in trouble when they were kids.

But when Shiv decides to double cross them with Lukas, there's no tell. She is super slick about it, immediately calling Lukas to invite him to the party when she hears their plans, has a cover story in place (dad invited him), and then acts reluctant and annoyed when Kendall "assigns" her to spend the evening with Lukas even though obviously that works in her favor. And they really seem to have no clue whatsoever.

Setting aside the fact that she might have screwed herself by aligning with Lukas, it was interesting to me to see Shiv as a pretty savvy, cold-blooded operated or in this respect. She is just much better at that kind of calculated lying and manipulation than they are, because she is better at concealing (or simply not feeling) her emotions. Tom was right in that fight when he called her cold-blooded. Roman and Kendall are awful but they actually have feelings and they are often quite obvious to an outsider. Shiv is cold to everyone -- Tom, her brothers, Lukas, her dad. She doesn't let anyone in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, tonights episode was really hard to watch. Not really even any surprises, just one miserable turn of events after another. Thoughts:

- Willa is the only character I genuinely like, and Connor saying that there was only one person in that room who genuinely believes in/cares about (can't remember which) him, and he was going to listen to her? One of the smartest things anyone has ever said on the show.

- I don't think Shiv and Tom can come back from that and now very curious to see what happens with the pregnancy.

- Roman is scaring me right now so the idea of him giving the eulogy is, uh, bad.

- I hate that Kendall started to seem kind of smart by the end of the episode again. I'm not rooting for Matsson, who also sucks, but if he stumbles into some huge win (Wayco acquiring Gojo) despite himself, I'm going to be so annoyed. So now I think this is probably what happens.

- Go Gerri! She can join Willa on the "not total trash" team. I like that she put Romans balls in a vise and started turning the crank. Perfect.

I was so pissed at Roman for insulting Willa in front of Connor and had major respect for Connor's character for his reaction. Roman sucks, Kendall sucks for being such a loser father and douche of an ex-husband, and Shiv is such a jerk to Tom (who sucks in his own way too).

That's kind of the point of this show. The mega billionaire didn't have it all. He was powerful enough to destroy businesses but he did the same to every human around him. The recurrent theme of the show is "look how damaged these people are." It's been said many times before and Tom said it straight to Shiv. They are all broken to such an extent they can't be unbroken. Not a single one of them has a healthy relationship. They were never loved. They were always objects to be manipulated and that is how they relate to everyone. Matteson is the same.

Shiv had her world rocked in this episode. Matteson is revealing himself to be as bad, maybe worse, than her immature screwed up brothers. He is playing her and maybe she is getting an inkling of that. She's supposed to be the most capable of the kids but look at how she is selling out her siblings with Matteson and she's so easy to manipulate that Matteson doesn't even have to lie and promise her a job. She needed Tom and she nuked that to hell with her casual disdain for him.

Is the point of this show to get the masses to see that there is little reason to envy these people? Is it for us to realize how these broken people get to decide who we vote for?

Anonymous wrote:Did I miss how Geri got back in the fold? I thought her firing was pretty final a few weeks ago. I miss her having a more active role this season, she is a great actress.

I am annoyed at the way shivs talks. Is she ever not snarky or sarcastic?

Geri has now been fired twice by Roman and both times it didn't take. The first time, Roman fired her reluctantly at his dad's request (likely in part as a loyalty test for Roman) but then Logan immediately died and there seemed to be a kind of tacit agreement between Roman, Tom, and Geri to pretend it didn't happen or didn't count.

Then roman fired her in the last episode, but you can tell from the moment he does it that she's not going to take it lying down, and when he tells Kendall about it, Kendall is like "uhhhh" because even he knows it's bad, before trying to spin it in a positive way.

Then at the beginning of this episode, after Frank and Geri show up to the party, Roman grabs Frank for a second and asks if Frank has successfully "smoothed it over" with Geri, and Franks says something like "No, she's still really pissed." Then we see the conversation between Geri and Roman where she makes her demands and threatens him with the dick pics.

So Roman unsuccessfully firing Geri is sort to his whole story arc this season.

Anonymous wrote:The interaction between Rava and Kendall reminded me of growing up in a home with an addict. Kendall may be “sober” but he still has all the character traits of an addict/ is a dry drunk. He has completely abandoned his kids, tries to find all the blame in others when told about his daughter, has to meet Rava on the street, thinks what he’s doing is so important that it is more important than his parental responsibilities. He’s also a huge a-hole.

Rava’s reaction is exactly what it’s like dealing with an addict. This entire exchange was spot on.

This is a good observation. I have thought several times throughout this season that Kendall is behaving in ways that make me wonder if he is using again. In particular his erratic behavior in Norway and in LA in the two previous episodes. Other than the Rava conversation, he almost seemed functional in this episode, but also awful.

Question: I'm having trouble remembering how the conversation between Kendall and Frank at the party ends. When Kendall tells Frank that GoJo has been cooking their India numbers and suggests that they try to take over GoJo instead of the reverse. Does Frank agree to it? Just look skeptical? Or do they just cut away from the scene?

Asking because I think Frank is another character who has known Kendall a long time, has some interest in his personal well being, but is not a member of the family and might have more objectivity. He also said earlier in the season that Kendall had been doing well lately and questioned whether he even wanted to be CEO at Waystar, indicating it would be bad for his sobriety and mental health.

Did I miss how Geri got back in the fold? I thought her firing was pretty final a few weeks ago. I miss her having a more active role this season, she is a great actress.

I am annoyed at the way shivs talks. Is she ever not snarky or sarcastic?

This episode was peak cringiness and SO GOOD!

The interaction between Rava and Kendall reminded me of growing up in a home with an addict. Kendall may be “sober” but he still has all the character traits of an addict/ is a dry drunk. He has completely abandoned his kids, tries to find all the blame in others when told about his daughter, has to meet Rava on the street, thinks what he’s doing is so important that it is more important than his parental responsibilities. He’s also a huge a-hole.

Rava’s reaction is exactly what it’s like dealing with an addict. This entire exchange was spot on.