Anonymous
08/19/2021 12:40
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:
So, the question is can I get away with inviting my youngest sister? I get that everyone seems to think the answer is no.
Well, you aren't going to go to jail for it. And honestly, if you help other sister out so much, she'll probably have to forgive you to maintain that support system. If I did the math right, she must basically have a newborn right now (5 months in december?), so I imagine she is sleep deprived and possibly hormonal. But you know her better than any of us.
To me, it seems unwise/hurtful/not enough of a benefit. Just don't invite the younger sister and you avoid a lot of potential drama, and the younger sister doesn't get a vacation that she isn't expecting anyway.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 12:20
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
OP here,
If my kids don’t want to ski with their older cousins or their older cousins don’t want to ski with them, then they can ski with me. They’ll ski with me some of the time anyway, because we like that.
The question isn’t is there some way we can bring my 3rd sister. I have saved for years, and spent a lot of time teaching my kids on little local slopes, to be ready for this trip. We waited till my kids were ready to handle slopes that are bigger than what they can find locally, and then we waited another couple years due to pandemic. So, I want to be able to actually ski those bigger slopes. But I also know from family dynamics that I will end up on the little slopes with her kids because frankly telling a 9 and 11 year old that they have to ski with the 4 year old seems much meaner than telling an adult “we figured with a 5 month old this isn’t the year for you to join us”.
So, the question is can I get away with inviting my youngest sister? I get that everyone seems to think the answer is no.
If my kids don’t want to ski with their older cousins or their older cousins don’t want to ski with them, then they can ski with me. They’ll ski with me some of the time anyway, because we like that.
The question isn’t is there some way we can bring my 3rd sister. I have saved for years, and spent a lot of time teaching my kids on little local slopes, to be ready for this trip. We waited till my kids were ready to handle slopes that are bigger than what they can find locally, and then we waited another couple years due to pandemic. So, I want to be able to actually ski those bigger slopes. But I also know from family dynamics that I will end up on the little slopes with her kids because frankly telling a 9 and 11 year old that they have to ski with the 4 year old seems much meaner than telling an adult “we figured with a 5 month old this isn’t the year for you to join us”.
So, the question is can I get away with inviting my youngest sister? I get that everyone seems to think the answer is no.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 10:40
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
IME, the older kids do not want to be a saddled with a 10 or 11 year old either.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, your update shows you doing the thinking for your sister. Not your place. Also, of your youngest and her oldest are only a few weeks/months apart like you said, why wouldn’t her oldest be ready for tge same freedoms as your kid? Yiu said yours was old enough to independently ski but her oldest two aren’t. Sounds like her oldest is.
They are just different personalities, but also my youngest is a good enough skier to keep up with his brother and older cousins. I wouldn’t send him by myself but I am happy to send him with the big kids. Her oldest isn’t. I am also much more comfortable with asking my older kid to make judgements about what his own brother can do, than I am asking him to take on that responsibility for another kid. Plus then that still leaves out one kid.
I feel like if they come of course her older kids will want to ski with the older kids. So instead of my sister getting hurt we’ll have either her kids getting hurt or mine. And they won’t understand. So having them there just means that instead of my sister getting hurt some of the kids do, or I or my youngest sister ends up babysitting to avoid that.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 09:57
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:OP, your update shows you doing the thinking for your sister. Not your place. Also, of your youngest and her oldest are only a few weeks/months apart like you said, why wouldn’t her oldest be ready for tge same freedoms as your kid? Yiu said yours was old enough to independently ski but her oldest two aren’t. Sounds like her oldest is.
They are just different personalities, but also my youngest is a good enough skier to keep up with his brother and older cousins. I wouldn’t send him by myself but I am happy to send him with the big kids. Her oldest isn’t. I am also much more comfortable with asking my older kid to make judgements about what his own brother can do, than I am asking him to take on that responsibility for another kid. Plus then that still leaves out one kid.
I feel like if they come of course her older kids will want to ski with the older kids. So instead of my sister getting hurt we’ll have either her kids getting hurt or mine. And they won’t understand. So having them there just means that instead of my sister getting hurt some of the kids do, or I or my youngest sister ends up babysitting to avoid that.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 09:26
Subject: If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
My brothers do that all the time although I actually share their interests. They will go to the gun range without me for example. Our sister is 20+ years younger so I get stuck doing stuff with her that isn’t as much fun. Not that I don’t enjoy her company, but the gendered activities bug me.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 09:21
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
OP, your update shows you doing the thinking for your sister. Not your place. Also, of your youngest and her oldest are only a few weeks/months apart like you said, why wouldn’t her oldest be ready for tge same freedoms as your kid? Yiu said yours was old enough to independently ski but her oldest two aren’t. Sounds like her oldest is.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 09:10
Subject: If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
OP reading your update I get it. I think there is no way to do this without causing a rift but I don't think thinking about and recognizing the benefits of it makes you a bad person/sister.
Sometimes things come up where you want to do something because it makes sense for a lot of reasons but you know deep down its just the wrong thing to do. This is one of those situations.
I don't think anyone sounds evil here, but yeah you can't invite two sisters and not deeply hurt the third.
Sometimes things come up where you want to do something because it makes sense for a lot of reasons but you know deep down its just the wrong thing to do. This is one of those situations.
I don't think anyone sounds evil here, but yeah you can't invite two sisters and not deeply hurt the third.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 08:10
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here,
You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.
I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.
There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.
But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.
She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.
Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.
So basically you are upset about a ski trip during a pandemic and you have unvaccinated kids.
Worlds smallest violin. SMALLEST!
If we go without the 3rd sister, we might have one unvaccinated kid between us. The decision to go this winter vs. next will depend on whether there's a vaccine for 11 year olds at that time, and if not, how much community spread. If we wait a year, he'll be 12. But the plan is to drive straight up, not do any restaurants, not go inside the lodge anyway. We wouldn't do ski school for my kids or the older cousins. We're on the high end of cautious when it comes to covid, but I think that the way we'd do it would be pretty safe.
My sister, the one with the kids, would have a 5 month old if she came with us. There aren't vaccine trials started for kids under 6 months, so she'll definitely have at least 1 unvaccinated kid. So, she's not going to want to do babysitters, or ski school, or anything else like that. Which is fine. I wouldn't do those things either if I were in her shoes. But it does mean that some of the solutions people propose here won't work.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 07:50
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here,
You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.
I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.
There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.
But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.
She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.
Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.
So basically you are upset about a ski trip during a pandemic and you have unvaccinated kids.
Worlds smallest violin. SMALLEST!
NP. People are going on vacation. If you don't want to, do you.
Anonymous
08/19/2021 05:07
Subject: If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
OP, I get where you are coming from (after your update). I would basically tell your sister most of this. Give them both a heads up that you and oldest sis and thinking about doing a ski trip, and then I would separately discuss with other middle sister that during the days it’s going to be every “man” for himself on the slopes. Honestly, if she recognizes how much you are helping her now, then she may be mad initially, but eventually realize she’s mad at her own current situation and not you guys specifically.
I’m not a skier, it if I was, in this situation, I’d probably make a deal with my husband that I go with my sisters and two older kids, and he stays home with baby and 4 yo. Then she can be responsible for her kids and all of them can be on the slopes. But you do at least have to give her the option of figuring out if there is a scenario where she can join that fits the dynamic.
I’m not a skier, it if I was, in this situation, I’d probably make a deal with my husband that I go with my sisters and two older kids, and he stays home with baby and 4 yo. Then she can be responsible for her kids and all of them can be on the slopes. But you do at least have to give her the option of figuring out if there is a scenario where she can join that fits the dynamic.
Anonymous
08/18/2021 21:26
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:OP here,
You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.
I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.
There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.
But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.
She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.
Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.
So basically you are upset about a ski trip during a pandemic and you have unvaccinated kids.
Worlds smallest violin. SMALLEST!
Anonymous
08/18/2021 21:23
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is inviting the newly married sister and her wife. You're trying to do two things with one trip--something nice for the new couple plus the ski trip with the sib who also has older kids (or whatever it was). The newly wed couple make this at least some degree about bringing that new marriage into the family circle, but then it means defining that circle on some level so as to exclude one group of the extended family. Just do the 2 family ski trip. Do something else that brings everyone together.
+1. I think this is a nice idea. Do one trip with your older sister and then something else, later in, with the whole family.
Anonymous
08/18/2021 21:22
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I read through 4 pages of comments and am shocked only 1 other person feels this way--I wouldn't care. But I have brothers, not sisters, so perhaps there is something to a sister dynamic I (thankfully) am not subjected to as a part of life.
Can't you just explain to the sister with the little kids what you explained here? You know your sister and whether she'll get it or flip out...I guess on the flip side, is there a reason you will personally feel responsible for making sure her kids are watched so your sister has fun? That's not your responsibility. To me it sounds like perhaps there is a more complex dynamic between this particular sister and OP that has brought upon this question in the first place.
But in general, I'm truly shocked by all these responses, as it wouldn't even occur to me to be "hurt." But I'm not offended by every little thing that happens in the world around me...
The dynamic among sisters is much different than the dynamic between sisters and brothers. And being hurt by being the only sister out of four that isn’t invited isn’t being “offended by every little thing that happens in the world around me.” You sound really smug and obnoxious.
(case in point)
NP. It seems like the majority of people would disagree with you that this is not mean behavior.
Anonymous
08/18/2021 21:10
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
I think the problem is inviting the newly married sister and her wife. You're trying to do two things with one trip--something nice for the new couple plus the ski trip with the sib who also has older kids (or whatever it was). The newly wed couple make this at least some degree about bringing that new marriage into the family circle, but then it means defining that circle on some level so as to exclude one group of the extended family. Just do the 2 family ski trip. Do something else that brings everyone together.
Anonymous
08/18/2021 21:08
Subject: Re:If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I read through 4 pages of comments and am shocked only 1 other person feels this way--I wouldn't care. But I have brothers, not sisters, so perhaps there is something to a sister dynamic I (thankfully) am not subjected to as a part of life.
Can't you just explain to the sister with the little kids what you explained here? You know your sister and whether she'll get it or flip out...I guess on the flip side, is there a reason you will personally feel responsible for making sure her kids are watched so your sister has fun? That's not your responsibility. To me it sounds like perhaps there is a more complex dynamic between this particular sister and OP that has brought upon this question in the first place.
But in general, I'm truly shocked by all these responses, as it wouldn't even occur to me to be "hurt." But I'm not offended by every little thing that happens in the world around me...
The dynamic among sisters is much different than the dynamic between sisters and brothers. And being hurt by being the only sister out of four that isn’t invited isn’t being “offended by every little thing that happens in the world around me.” You sound really smug and obnoxious.
(case in point)