Yale of course is outstanding. Just, some coldness there on campus it seems.

Also, New Haven is not anything to write home about. Yale bought up much surrounding area, but not exciting like Harvard Square or Morningside Heights which have great future prospects.

Me, too ! I remember that. Also, Barons and Princeton Review.

In those days the categories were from Average, etc. to Competitive to Most Competitive in terms of admissions.

The same institutions were in the Most Competitive Competitive category. later at some point these were changed to Extremely Competitive. Now, there is an 'Elite' category.

The college prep programs have significantly affected what was previously Barons, Princeton review monopolies.

Basically, nothing new over four decades in terms of the general categories. Even as a kid, I knew them even without consulting any of these books in the library or at bookstores which were next to McDonalds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What will the list look like ten years from now ? Any thoughts ?

Vandy, Rice, Emory, Notre Dame, WashU, CMU, Columbia, and MAYBE Duke move up

Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Wellesley, USC, CMC, Yale, UChicago, Georgetown, UCLA, and UCB Move down. MOst of these schools aren't what they used to be and USC just has so many issues.

I don’t see why Yale would move down. It’s such a great, rich school.

Anonymous wrote:Hello everybody :

Some of your posts really seem very knowledgeable and even scientific in your reasoning, with excellent writing skills.

Would those of you who made a commendable effort in submitting these posts kindly list your own credentials and explain how you obtained such shrewd insights.

What started out as a parlor game has developed into some absolutely fantastic productions other present and future status of our nation's higher educational institutions. Rankings have been part of our country's educational institutions since at least 1906.

Can you kindly list your own credentials and brief explanations as to how you acquired such knowledge and insights ?

Many thanks, and hats off to all of you.

I’m the Wash. U. alum with a post right after yours, at 00:10. My main source of expertise: Hazy memories of coping with the misery of high school by reading a secondhand copy of Susan Berman’s Underground Guide to the College of Your Choice.

I threw my own hat into the ring here simply because work was getting to me and I longed for a hot date on Friday evening, or indeed almost any date, quite frankly, and had no prospects of finding one due to work commitments.

The construction of this list was fine for amusement and for thought about the alignment of institutions of higher education in our country and which impact the world. The reality is that these lists generate world-wide interest and millions of dollars in revenue for ranking companies, college recruitment, fundraiser efforts, college prep programs.

My own credentials include an Ivy and Oxford.

Anonymous wrote:Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst, Pomona... should be on there if it's undergrad. They probably slot somewhere around 1b

I went to Wash. U.

First, rating schools is like racing turtles, or playing a toy slot machine. Doing this has no relevance to anything but is oddly soothing.

Anyhow: These schools should all come before Wash. U. Amherst should be in the Harvard tier, because, like Harvard, it’s need-blind and meets full need for international students.

Johns Hopkins should probably rank below Wash. U. because the stories about how unpleasant it is.

Berkeley and UCLA should rank below Wash. U. until they make it easier for students to get the classes needed to graduate on time. Rankings like this shouldn’t reward schools that do a poor job of helping hard-working, bright students graduate on time.

Dartmouth should rank below Wash. U. because of the alum who comes on DCUM and is so nasty.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt should rank at the same level as Wash. U. or a little lower. I think the only reason they’re higher here is that they have Division I sports.

To me, it always seemed as if Tufts was at the same level as Wash. U., or a little higher. NYU and USC seemed to be schools for boring rich kids. But all three schools are really teaching hospitals with universities attached. Maybe all three of those schools are at the same level as Wash. U.

Similarly, the University of Rochester gets less attention than the other schools here, but my understanding is that it’s about the same as Wash. U. Should it be on the Wash. U. level?

If all of those schools are listed, is there any great reason to keep off the University of Texas, UNC, UVA and some more University of California schools?

So, my version of the list:

1. Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Yale, Amherst

1b. Columbia, Caltech, Upenn, U Chicago, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, Harvey Mudd

2. West Point, Annapolis

2b. Rice, Brown, Cornell

3. Vandy, Notre Dame, Duke, Northwestern, Emory, WashU, CMU, UVA, Rochester

3b. UCLA*, UCB*, Johns Hopkins*, Dartmouth*, UNC, Texas, Air Force Academy*, Georgetown*, Smith, Wellesley, Barnard,

3c. UC San Diego, UC Irvine, University of Illinois, University of Florida, Rutgers, Coast Guard Academy, Ohio State, Penn State, Oberlin, Grinnell, Carlton, Davidson, Washington & Lee, Reed, Case Western


* Downgraded due to stories about problems with access to classes, videos of rats in dorms, or reports of students being awful to each other.

Hello everybody :

Some of your posts really seem very knowledgeable and even scientific in your reasoning, with excellent writing skills.

Would those of you who made a commendable effort in submitting these posts kindly list your own credentials and explain how you obtained such shrewd insights.

What started out as a parlor game has developed into some absolutely fantastic productions other present and future status of our nation's higher educational institutions. Rankings have been part of our country's educational institutions since at least 1906.

Can you kindly list your own credentials and brief explanations as to how you acquired such knowledge and insights ?

Many thanks, and hats off to all of you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Don't hijack my thread, it's not a ranking it's a tier list.

Yes, please stop. There's 6 schools tier at 9 yet the next number is 12 and why are you splitting up schools into CS and non CS are you a computer scientist?
Would Georgetown SFS be ranked 4 then? Make your own thread if you have to.

..
1. Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Yale

1b. Columbia, Caltech, Upenn, U Chicago

2. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth

2b. Brown, Williams, Amherst

3. Vanderbilt, Cornell, Swarthmore, Rice, Pomona,

3b. Emory, Notre Dame, WashU, Georgetown, Bowdoin, UCLA, UCB, CMU

4. UVA, Umich, Tufts, Wellesley, USC, UNC, CMC

Move JHU to 3 then great list

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Columbia is next after HYP, but quite close. Plenty of genius kids there. New York City is hard to ignore in opportunities.

Historically, in the US from the 18th century through the 1930's or 1940's H, Y, P, C were the big four and the origins for the IV ( later Ivy) for emphasis on classics.

It's HYPSM, some gap then Columbia. Columbia is great, but its endowment is smaller than Penn or Northwestern's. That's one of the key differentiating wedges between HYPSM and Columbia.

Agree for the p[restige, but the quality of education is outstanding, including the core.

Columbia's endowment is less now because it spent ( is spending) $7 billion on the 17 acres of land it purchased near its traditional campus to bud a new campus. If it had not spent that amount, the endowment would be significantly larger. Still large at $11 billion something. it will get more from fundraising.

Interestingly, as a back door perspective on the importance of geography, all of these colleges and universities spend a fortune to have a college club in New York City. This shows the importance all of them attach to world-class NYC connections and opportunities above anywhere else in the country.

I doubt that $7B of the endowment is unrestricted to do a purchase. Most likely source would be debt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Don't hijack my thread, it's not a ranking it's a tier list.

Yes, please stop. There's 6 schools tier at 9 yet the next number is 12 and why are you splitting up schools into CS and non CS are you a computer scientist? Would Georgetown SFS be ranked 4 then? Make your own thread if you have to.

..
1. Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Yale

1b. Columbia, Caltech, Upenn, U Chicago

2. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth

2b. Brown, Williams, Amherst

3. Vanderbilt, Cornell, Swarthmore, Rice, Pomona,

3b. Emory, Notre Dame, WashU, Georgetown, Bowdoin, UCLA, UCB, CMU

4. UVA, Umich, Tufts, Wellesley, USC, UNC, CMC

Great system. And UNC for instance would be better than a school like Washington & Lee because of what? The 25% lower lifetime ROI? The 27% lower early career earnings? The lower 4 year graduation rate? 66% lower alumni giving rate? Far greater difficulty getting desired classes? Less satisfaction with professor effort, access, and teaching quality? More classes taught by TAs? 1/6th endowment per student?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Don't hijack my thread, it's not a ranking it's a tier list.

Yes, please stop. There's 6 schools tier at 9 yet the next number is 12 and why are you splitting up schools into CS and non CS are you a computer scientist? Would Georgetown SFS be ranked 4 then? Make your own thread if you have to.

..
1. Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Yale

1b. Columbia, Caltech, Upenn, U Chicago

2. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth

2b. Brown, Williams, Amherst

3. Vanderbilt, Cornell, Swarthmore, Rice, Pomona,

3b. Emory, Notre Dame, WashU, Georgetown, Bowdoin, UCLA, UCB, CMU

4. UVA, Umich, Tufts, Wellesley, USC, UNC, CMC

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Don't hijack my thread, it's not a ranking it's a tier list.

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Definitive? Hardly, asshat.

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Cornell and Dartmouth should be in 19 category

Anonymous wrote:The definitive guide for top 30 (undergraduate):

1. Harvard, Stanford
3. MIT
4. Yale, Princeton

6. Columbia, Penn Wharton, Caltech
9. Penn CAS, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, (CMU CS, UCB CS)
12. Chicago, Duke, Northwestern
15. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona

19. Vandy, Rice, CMU, WashU, Emory, Georgetown, USC, Notredame, UCLA, UCB, UVA
30. UMich

Move Penn cas, Cornell brown and Dartmouth to 15, then good