Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 15:40     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:The superiority complexes on this these are enough to make you go hmmm


Having a sub 1400 SAT does not mean the kid didn’t “master” high school. Good lord. Some people are not good test takers. My DC gets so nervous for standardized tests that he threw up the morning of the test. Not everyone can sit in a room and have their entire lives laying out in front of them, depending on whether or not they ace the test.



+100
And a test that experts have stated does not predict success in college.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2020/01/29/its-gpas-not-standardized-tests-that-predict-college-success/
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/test-scores-dont-stack-gpas-predicting-college-success
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 15:36     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

OK. Let me guess you are one of those 50 white people who think ignoring race makes it all fair and police killings would stop if race was not thought about. The race blind people are racist. what the post means is that anyone who wants to go to a top school needs take make themselves elite/excellent or pointy at something and have good grades. The days of UMC kids with tutors and involved parents getting into top colleges based on tutored test scores and tutored/parent aided grades are over. all kids need to bring something in addition to top grades. its just a changing of the rules. you can pines for the days when all of the rules favored rich white as much as you like but they ain't coming back and they are not race and economic class neutral.
Schools are political and public entities. They want and NEED to admit more Black students politically. They are willing to lower their statistical standards to get them. The next issue is performance once they get in. Poor grades leads to shifts in majors away from STEM to easier paths. That will be the next correction. (No grades in college?). The correction needs to take place starting in preschool but that is much more difficult because it is expensive and requires a cultural shift in how education is valued and the need for a stable family unit. Instead we get lipstick on a pig.


You are sadly mistaken and very limited in your experience. Tons of those kids with Ivy kids low scores turn into great students because they are persistent. They may take a semester or two to catch up but are often near the top by graduation. They have nothing to fall back upon and no UMC parents to rely upon. They are hungry to advance.

Frankly, the "best educated, most prepared kids" going to top/Ivy schools come from boarding schools and top privates across the country (not talking about the big 3/5 debate) because they have had educational opportunities and individual attention that is not available to students at UMC public or "regular" private schools. Are you arguing that top colleges should go back to admitting large quantities of those boarding/elite day school kids like they did until the late 80s/90s? The top colleges changed their admission policies and started admitting public school kids in greater numbers-- the quality of graduates did not go down but the boarding schools made the same arguments you make here today. Do you really think the first gen/poor URM kids lack exposure or you actually believe they are dumb/unable to be taught? Many elite educated people discriminated against public school kids assuming they were not bright or had poor social graces... is this what you favor?
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 15:21     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I get it. I think this social justice experiment is going to sink the top colleges though. So it doesn't matter if you don't get in because the names won't be worth anything in a few years anyway.


Change is always hard for those who feel disadvantaged by a change.... The top schools are here to stay. It took 100s of years to get so powerful/popular/famous and it will take decades to change the paradigm. The feelings of certain UMC white parents are meaningless as long as elite kids and the likes of Amanda Gore are getting in to T30 colleges and making outsize marks on the United States. This approach to admissions is working very well for top universities.

The point posters are missing is that there is an overall decrease in advantages UMC whites have received for any american prize (education/job). Elite people of any race are now getting those advantages over typical UMC whites. The sooner UMC white parents realize this the better for their kids-- develop an excellence at anything your kid likes and they glide through the door to all the advantages White UMC families had in the past.


Sorry. I just have this strong feeling that it is wrong to judge people based on the color of their skin. And I don't think this feeling will ever go away.


Now that doesn’t benefit you any longer? Got it!

Ha ha so true. It was so much better when kids got into college based on how much their parents paid for tutors and that home in (at least) an UMC great school district. Throw in a private college counselor, an essay writing team and watch the acceptances roll. It was so much better and a true meritocracy.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 15:12     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I get it. I think this social justice experiment is going to sink the top colleges though. So it doesn't matter if you don't get in because the names won't be worth anything in a few years anyway.


Change is always hard for those who feel disadvantaged by a change.... The top schools are here to stay. It took 100s of years to get so powerful/popular/famous and it will take decades to change the paradigm. The feelings of certain UMC white parents are meaningless as long as elite kids and the likes of Amanda Gore are getting in to T30 colleges and making outsize marks on the United States. This approach to admissions is working very well for top universities.

The point posters are missing is that there is an overall decrease in advantages UMC whites have received for any american prize (education/job). Elite people of any race are now getting those advantages over typical UMC whites. The sooner UMC white parents realize this the better for their kids-- develop an excellence at anything your kid likes and they glide through the door to all the advantages White UMC families had in the past.


Sorry. I just have this strong feeling that it is wrong to judge people based on the color of their skin. And I don't think this feeling will ever go away.


Now that doesn’t benefit you any longer? Got it!
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 14:58     Subject: I hate test optional!
^ the first thing that is wrong with the above is that you correlate SAT and ACT with intelligence within the African American community. That is where you go wrong before anything else that you assume, such as that these schools are “lowering standards” and that they can’t hack it in the college so they have to transfer to an easier major. You just really don’t get it do you?
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 14:48     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:

OK. Let me guess you are one of those 50 white people who think ignoring race makes it all fair and police killings would stop if race was not thought about. The race blind people are racist. what the post means is that anyone who wants to go to a top school needs take make themselves elite/excellent or pointy at something and have good grades. The days of UMC kids with tutors and involved parents getting into top colleges based on tutored test scores and tutored/parent aided grades are over. all kids need to bring something in addition to top grades. its just a changing of the rules. you can pines for the days when all of the rules favored rich white as much as you like but they ain't coming back and they are not race and economic class neutral.
Schools are political and public entities. They want and NEED to admit more Black students politically. They are willing to lower their statistical standards to get them. The next issue is performance once they get in. Poor grades leads to shifts in majors away from STEM to easier paths. That will be the next correction. (No grades in college?). The correction needs to take place starting in preschool but that is much more difficult because it is expensive and requires a cultural shift in how education is valued and the need for a stable family unit. Instead we get lipstick on a pig.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 14:23     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:35 ACT helped my DS get into schools.

Was that this year?
35 ACT didn’t do much for mine this admission season.


What colleges were they rejected from?
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 13:52     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:35 ACT helped my DS get into schools.

Was that this year?
35 ACT didn’t do much for mine this admission season.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 13:37     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I get it. I think this social justice experiment is going to sink the top colleges though. So it doesn't matter if you don't get in because the names won't be worth anything in a few years anyway.


Change is always hard for those who feel disadvantaged by a change.... The top schools are here to stay. It took 100s of years to get so powerful/popular/famous and it will take decades to change the paradigm. The feelings of certain UMC white parents are meaningless as long as elite kids and the likes of Amanda Gore are getting in to T30 colleges and making outsize marks on the United States. This approach to admissions is working very well for top universities.

The point posters are missing is that there is an overall decrease in advantages UMC whites have received for any american prize (education/job). Elite people of any race are now getting those advantages over typical UMC whites. The sooner UMC white parents realize this the better for their kids-- develop an excellence at anything your kid likes and they glide through the door to all the advantages White UMC families had in the past.


Sorry. I just have this strong feeling that it is wrong to judge people based on the color of their skin. And I don't think this feeling will ever go away.


I have this feeling that college admissions is not “judging people.”
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 13:36     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:Daughter who's a junior pulled a 1490 on her first SAT attempt in March, cold, I mean zero preparation. Now she has a tutor and is signed up to take it again in June. Her tutor told me that based on what she's observed in their sessions so far she expects her to get a 1550+ on the second try.

I want to be excited for her, but after reading this board along with so many newspaper articles on how test optional is changing the admission landscape, I can't help but think she came along a couple years too late to be a high-achiever but an otherwise normal kid, by which I mean she's ranked near the top of her class, plays sports, is involved in clubs, but isn't a "URM" or a "first-generation student" and has no interest in being some nationally known social justice activist or social media influencer.

She's just a really smart kid who'll likely become a doctor, pharmacist, PT, or something in that mold, and her test scores were going to be what set her apart from all the other kids who've been handed high grades during Zoom school and can make up a bunch of extracurriculars and "leadership roles" for their applications.

I worry that some kid like that who probably couldn't pull a 1300-1400 with a year of prep will end up taking a spot that should have gone to my daughter. That might sound bad, but what parent likes seeing their kid lose out on opportunities to someone who they know is less talented and less capable?

I hate test optional!

Test optional can SMD!


You’re insane, there are a ton of colleges where your daughter will get in and have a happy, successful life. But she will drop you if you stay this nutty.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 13:31     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I get it. I think this social justice experiment is going to sink the top colleges though. So it doesn't matter if you don't get in because the names won't be worth anything in a few years anyway.


Change is always hard for those who feel disadvantaged by a change.... The top schools are here to stay. It took 100s of years to get so powerful/popular/famous and it will take decades to change the paradigm. The feelings of certain UMC white parents are meaningless as long as elite kids and the likes of Amanda Gore are getting in to T30 colleges and making outsize marks on the United States. This approach to admissions is working very well for top universities.

The point posters are missing is that there is an overall decrease in advantages UMC whites have received for any american prize (education/job). Elite people of any race are now getting those advantages over typical UMC whites. The sooner UMC white parents realize this the better for their kids-- develop an excellence at anything your kid likes and they glide through the door to all the advantages White UMC families had in the past.


Sorry. I just have this strong feeling that it is wrong to judge people based on the color of their skin. And I don't think this feeling will ever go away.


OK. Let me guess you are one of those 50 white people who think ignoring race makes it all fair and police killings would stop if race was not thought about. The race blind people are racist. what the post means is that anyone who wants to go to a top school needs take make themselves elite/excellent or pointy at something and have good grades. The days of UMC kids with tutors and involved parents getting into top colleges based on tutored test scores and tutored/parent aided grades are over. all kids need to bring something in addition to top grades. its just a changing of the rules. you can pines for the days when all of the rules favored rich white as much as you like but they ain't coming back and they are not race and economic class neutral.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 13:19     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I get it. I think this social justice experiment is going to sink the top colleges though. So it doesn't matter if you don't get in because the names won't be worth anything in a few years anyway.


Change is always hard for those who feel disadvantaged by a change.... The top schools are here to stay. It took 100s of years to get so powerful/popular/famous and it will take decades to change the paradigm. The feelings of certain UMC white parents are meaningless as long as elite kids and the likes of Amanda Gore are getting in to T30 colleges and making outsize marks on the United States. This approach to admissions is working very well for top universities.

The point posters are missing is that there is an overall decrease in advantages UMC whites have received for any american prize (education/job). Elite people of any race are now getting those advantages over typical UMC whites. The sooner UMC white parents realize this the better for their kids-- develop an excellence at anything your kid likes and they glide through the door to all the advantages White UMC families had in the past.


Sorry. I just have this strong feeling that it is wrong to judge people based on the color of their skin. And I don't think this feeling will ever go away.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 13:13     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:I get it. I think this social justice experiment is going to sink the top colleges though. So it doesn't matter if you don't get in because the names won't be worth anything in a few years anyway.


Change is always hard for those who feel disadvantaged by a change.... The top schools are here to stay. It took 100s of years to get so powerful/popular/famous and it will take decades to change the paradigm. The feelings of certain UMC white parents are meaningless as long as elite kids and the likes of Amanda Gore are getting in to T30 colleges and making outsize marks on the United States. This approach to admissions is working very well for top universities.

The point posters are missing is that there is an overall decrease in advantages UMC whites have received for any american prize (education/job). Elite people of any race are now getting those advantages over typical UMC whites. The sooner UMC white parents realize this the better for their kids-- develop an excellence at anything your kid likes and they glide through the door to all the advantages White UMC families had in the past.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 11:32     Subject: I hate test optional!
Anonymous wrote:Admissions people hate The College Board. Hate it.

They hate that people think they don’t know how to read an application and need a stupid standardized test, which had constant security issues (looking up how many times SATs were cancelled because of cheating) and inherent issues that benefit certain testers.

Admissions doesn’t need testing. Presidents, faculty, trustees, and alumni (and parents) who can’t wrap their heads around reading an application THINK admissions needs testing.


You haven’t been paying attention. The consensus is that admissions people are complete idiots who can’t read an application, and can’t make a decision without a single spreadsheet value where they can use “data/sort” and then be done with the work.

All that other stuff, transcripts, recommendations, essays, other info on the application - just there for show.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2021 10:48     Subject: I hate test optional!
Admissions people hate The College Board. Hate it.

They hate that people think they don’t know how to read an application and need a stupid standardized test, which had constant security issues (looking up how many times SATs were cancelled because of cheating) and inherent issues that benefit certain testers.

Admissions doesn’t need testing. Presidents, faculty, trustees, and alumni (and parents) who can’t wrap their heads around reading an application THINK admissions needs testing.