Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 11:47     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT VMPI:

So I have been writing(profusely) to Tina Mazzacone and to my IB school k-12 math coordinator in NOVA regarding this catastrophe. I have a brief meeting with the two of them next week online.

I will concentrate on : the fact that all three levels of IB MATH in grade 11 and 12 (mandatory for the IB diploma), require precalculus (for the HL course) or algebra 2/trig in grade 10(for the SL courses)!!!
As a reminder VMPI does NOT teach algebra 2 nor trig nor precal . SO no one can access algebra 2 until 11th grade per VMPI.

So I want her to chew on that and explain how can VA IB schools continue offering the IB diploma as NO kids will have the knowledge ready for any IB level math--even the one for lib art majors . And as a reminder the IB program is not US based but rather global -not just through Europe but I believe on all continents-so its not like they will have the world participate in this VMPI -we at least not for the next 10-12 years).
-------------------------------------------------------------
SO please write here if you have any other concrete questions that I can ask and so on

thanks
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 10:57     Subject: VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
What evidence do you have that these changes will actually lead to kids gaining a better understanding of the basics of math? Serious question.


NP. What evidence do you have that they won’t?


DP. Many teachers are saying that there's no way they can differentiate for students ranging from the remedial through the gifted in the same classroom. Before they remove all tracking, they should demonstrate that it is possible to engage the full range of students in a single class without ignoring the top kids or failing to support adequately the bottom kids.

FWIW, it's not just the parents of advanced kids who are concerned about this new proposal. Many of the parents of struggling kids are worried that their kids will be placed in a class too fast for them without the proper supports. They're afraid that their kids will be resented for slowing down the class or be mocked for their struggles.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 10:04     Subject: VA math changes - ways to speak out
Education should be about how many students “need” calculus or whatever course. That’s how the dumbing down begins, and once started it will never stop. Learning for learning’s sake matters, too.
It’s clear from many posters on this thread that they are fine with— even happy about— holding back advanced students so they can’t “get ahead” of other students. That’s a terrible attitude that in the end serves no one.
It also just isn’t true that kids are only in advanced math because their parents are pushy.
Equity is supposed to mean providing everyone with what they need, not providing everyone with the same exact thing. Options in math classes are great, but don’t hamstring kids that are ready for more difficult classes.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 09:11     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!


It does! And there’s no stopping it.


I think the 1 semester class options are great -- as electives. My son would have loved to have those options. He's a senior taking Calc BC, AP Stats, and a dual enrollment geospatial analysis class. But it's disengenuous to say only a small segment of students need calculus. Business is the top major students express a preference for going in to college. Undergrad business schools care a lot about math skills and competitive schools expect to see calculus as evidence of math ability. Obviously, hardly anyone actually uses calculus in a business career. That's irrelevant when it comes to college admissions. Students who may be counseled to select something other than pre-calc/calc for 11th-12th for their primary math classes will be really limiting their options. Sure, it shouldn't be that way, but VA DOE isn't going to change the admissions requirements for colleges across the country.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 08:55     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Step back, parents. YOU are a big part of the problem.



I think this is a great move by VA to reset our education.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 08:53     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!


I like the greater variety of offerings in 11th-12th and the idea of introducing statistical concepts earlier. My main issue with it is this idea that magically, a teacher is now going to be able to appropriately address the needs of students from remedial to gifted all in one classroom, whether it's kindergarten or 10th grade. That is fantasy land. Reality is the teacher will have to focus on the students who are below standard. The students who pick it up quickly end up bored, turned off of math, and probably drafted to be teachers' aides. It seems their solution to not enough URM students being identified as gifted in math is to just not allow anyone to be gifted in math and get an appropriately demanding experience in the subject. That's not equity. I don't mind that my kids would be introduced to algebra in 8th grade (that's when I took it) but I do mind that they would lose their love of math because they are doing the same thing over and over while the teacher tries to get other kids up to speed. If it's so great to give the quicker kids deeper exploration, then there should be different class sections for the kids who are ready for that depth and a teacher who is actually focused on their needs.

It is also a concern that they are IMO being vague about what they mean about getting to calculus. Will AP Calculus BC be offered? Or is it just AB? Kids applying to elite engineering programs should have BC to be competitive. They say, oh, it won't be a disadvantage in applications since students are judged against what's offered at your school. So, fine (maybe?) for admissions but then you show up for college and are in classes with students who have mostly taken BC. Now you are not able to perform at the same level.


Kids get pushed into accelerated math because their parents have either paid for tutors or have the ability to expose them to advanced math concepts at home, and they've picked up the concepts. Those kids aren't necessarily gifted in math, they are just ahead. It would be a nice change for northern Virginians to get out of this competitive thing we do in all aspects of our lives, including pushing and pressuring our children to be ahead of their peers. 95% of kids won't need BC calculus. Those who do will get it in college again anyway. Hate to break it to you, but there's not much difference between AB and BC. If your kid was ready for BC in 12th, they'll be ready as a freshman.


Some kids are crazy bored and push themselves into accelerated math, without tutors or parents pushing them at home. They're crazy bored because, as PP noted, they end up as just the teacher's aide, responsible for teaching all their peers instead of learning anything new themselves.

I'm also concerned about the vaguery of calculus - I'm worried that the students who do want to take it will have to, in practice, take a year of summer school to get the full progression of topics to get them ready for calculus in 12th.


Those students are a very, very, small minority. And, let's be honest here. If you're thinking your kid needs to take pre-calc in the summer before 12th, you're one of those tiger parents who are precisely why the system needs to change.

URMs are just as talented in math as their asian and white peers, but most don't have the means to jump ahead and demonstrate that. Now the system will be fair. Your snowflake will survive.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 08:22     Subject: VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I never thought I would say this but I actually support the changes that VA is going to make.

It will almost certainly go through because too many parents are disillusion regarding their kids abilities and their kids never learn the basics of math and this becomes evident in high school.



What evidence do you have that these changes will actually lead to kids gaining a better understanding of the basics of math? Serious question.


NP. What evidence do you have that they won’t?


The burden of proof isn’t on the people saying not to change a system that’s had very good overall pass rates and a relatively low amount of parental dissatisfaction in public education. I’d like to see some very compelling reasons before implementing a major change in the state’s mathematical approach and curriculum. The places that tried this had a lot of problems with implementation and maintenance, which aren’t being discussed enough to make me confident and I don’t think I’m alone. I also don’t think the successes in these places have much to do with putting all the students on the same track. They invested heavily in extra teachers and support services for the kids who were struggling. Keep that as the intervention and you wouldn’t need to screw around with everything else to get better results.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 08:04     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!


It does! And there’s no stopping it.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 08:03     Subject: VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I never thought I would say this but I actually support the changes that VA is going to make.

It will almost certainly go through because too many parents are disillusion regarding their kids abilities and their kids never learn the basics of math and this becomes evident in high school.



What evidence do you have that these changes will actually lead to kids gaining a better understanding of the basics of math? Serious question.


NP. What evidence do you have that they won’t?
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 07:59     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!


I like the greater variety of offerings in 11th-12th and the idea of introducing statistical concepts earlier. My main issue with it is this idea that magically, a teacher is now going to be able to appropriately address the needs of students from remedial to gifted all in one classroom, whether it's kindergarten or 10th grade. That is fantasy land. Reality is the teacher will have to focus on the students who are below standard. The students who pick it up quickly end up bored, turned off of math, and probably drafted to be teachers' aides. It seems their solution to not enough URM students being identified as gifted in math is to just not allow anyone to be gifted in math and get an appropriately demanding experience in the subject. That's not equity. I don't mind that my kids would be introduced to algebra in 8th grade (that's when I took it) but I do mind that they would lose their love of math because they are doing the same thing over and over while the teacher tries to get other kids up to speed. If it's so great to give the quicker kids deeper exploration, then there should be different class sections for the kids who are ready for that depth and a teacher who is actually focused on their needs.

It is also a concern that they are IMO being vague about what they mean about getting to calculus. Will AP Calculus BC be offered? Or is it just AB? Kids applying to elite engineering programs should have BC to be competitive. They say, oh, it won't be a disadvantage in applications since students are judged against what's offered at your school. So, fine (maybe?) for admissions but then you show up for college and are in classes with students who have mostly taken BC. Now you are not able to perform at the same level.


Kids get pushed into accelerated math because their parents have either paid for tutors or have the ability to expose them to advanced math concepts at home, and they've picked up the concepts. Those kids aren't necessarily gifted in math, they are just ahead. It would be a nice change for northern Virginians to get out of this competitive thing we do in all aspects of our lives, including pushing and pressuring our children to be ahead of their peers. 95% of kids won't need BC calculus. Those who do will get it in college again anyway. Hate to break it to you, but there's not much difference between AB and BC. If your kid was ready for BC in 12th, they'll be ready as a freshman.


Some kids are crazy bored and push themselves into accelerated math, without tutors or parents pushing them at home. They're crazy bored because, as PP noted, they end up as just the teacher's aide, responsible for teaching all their peers instead of learning anything new themselves.

I'm also concerned about the vaguery of calculus - I'm worried that the students who do want to take it will have to, in practice, take a year of summer school to get the full progression of topics to get them ready for calculus in 12th.
Anonymous
Post 04/17/2021 00:25     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!


I like the greater variety of offerings in 11th-12th and the idea of introducing statistical concepts earlier. My main issue with it is this idea that magically, a teacher is now going to be able to appropriately address the needs of students from remedial to gifted all in one classroom, whether it's kindergarten or 10th grade. That is fantasy land. Reality is the teacher will have to focus on the students who are below standard. The students who pick it up quickly end up bored, turned off of math, and probably drafted to be teachers' aides. It seems their solution to not enough URM students being identified as gifted in math is to just not allow anyone to be gifted in math and get an appropriately demanding experience in the subject. That's not equity. I don't mind that my kids would be introduced to algebra in 8th grade (that's when I took it) but I do mind that they would lose their love of math because they are doing the same thing over and over while the teacher tries to get other kids up to speed. If it's so great to give the quicker kids deeper exploration, then there should be different class sections for the kids who are ready for that depth and a teacher who is actually focused on their needs.

It is also a concern that they are IMO being vague about what they mean about getting to calculus. Will AP Calculus BC be offered? Or is it just AB? Kids applying to elite engineering programs should have BC to be competitive. They say, oh, it won't be a disadvantage in applications since students are judged against what's offered at your school. So, fine (maybe?) for admissions but then you show up for college and are in classes with students who have mostly taken BC. Now you are not able to perform at the same level.


Kids get pushed into accelerated math because their parents have either paid for tutors or have the ability to expose them to advanced math concepts at home, and they've picked up the concepts. Those kids aren't necessarily gifted in math, they are just ahead. It would be a nice change for northern Virginians to get out of this competitive thing we do in all aspects of our lives, including pushing and pressuring our children to be ahead of their peers. 95% of kids won't need BC calculus. Those who do will get it in college again anyway. Hate to break it to you, but there's not much difference between AB and BC. If your kid was ready for BC in 12th, they'll be ready as a freshman.
Anonymous
Post 04/16/2021 23:20     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!


I like the greater variety of offerings in 11th-12th and the idea of introducing statistical concepts earlier. My main issue with it is this idea that magically, a teacher is now going to be able to appropriately address the needs of students from remedial to gifted all in one classroom, whether it's kindergarten or 10th grade. That is fantasy land. Reality is the teacher will have to focus on the students who are below standard. The students who pick it up quickly end up bored, turned off of math, and probably drafted to be teachers' aides. It seems their solution to not enough URM students being identified as gifted in math is to just not allow anyone to be gifted in math and get an appropriately demanding experience in the subject. That's not equity. I don't mind that my kids would be introduced to algebra in 8th grade (that's when I took it) but I do mind that they would lose their love of math because they are doing the same thing over and over while the teacher tries to get other kids up to speed. If it's so great to give the quicker kids deeper exploration, then there should be different class sections for the kids who are ready for that depth and a teacher who is actually focused on their needs.

It is also a concern that they are IMO being vague about what they mean about getting to calculus. Will AP Calculus BC be offered? Or is it just AB? Kids applying to elite engineering programs should have BC to be competitive. They say, oh, it won't be a disadvantage in applications since students are judged against what's offered at your school. So, fine (maybe?) for admissions but then you show up for college and are in classes with students who have mostly taken BC. Now you are not able to perform at the same level.
Anonymous
Post 04/16/2021 23:03     Subject: Re:VA math changes - ways to speak out
There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2021 19:06     Subject: VA math changes - ways to speak out
Anonymous wrote:You tube link to DOE webinar going on now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEPUWhIC2tI


so far they only seem to be taking softball questions
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2021 18:46     Subject: VA math changes - ways to speak out
You tube link to DOE webinar going on now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEPUWhIC2tI