Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 16:01     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:IMO it seems like the defense is using multiple strategies. His history, drug use, underlying conditions but most importantly the paramedics moving to a new location was bc they felt it wasn't safe. That gives support to the idea that the police were too distracted by the surroundings. Also that by moving GF they delayed necessary medical support that could have saved him. Add in that the Firefighter EMS weren't updated on the new location.
They are making it seem like it was a variety of factors. He directly asked whether the paramedic was able to insert the gel thing in the airway and whether there was any compression or resistance or injuries to the neck.
I mean I really don't understand why you would get arrested without evidence of forgery. I also don't understand why he wasn't given an opportunity to take a breath and calmly discuss getting into the car. Do they not have transport vans that could have been called? Why not just give him a minute- he's handcuffed.


I think Floyd repeatedly refusing to get out of the car to discuss the fake bill with the store clerk suggests that he knew it was fake.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:57     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:

I would think that they could have an expert on police matters testify that they reviewed the body worn camera footage and describe that the review revealed the officer said there was no pulse.


The prosecution will undoubtedly do something like that, and already has to some extent (they played that snippet yesterday, when they had an expert on camera systems testify). The expert was testifying to establish how camera systems work, and how the footage is stored securely so it can’t be altered, etc. As well as the basics on the body cams.

Prosecution will almost certainly be calling the police chief to show footage and establish what is happening throughout the footage and what officers should be doing based on training.

I just don’t know how the defense would confront it at this point. Certainly they’re way ahead of me on reviewing the evidence of this case and will attempt the legal defense available, but I think it’s pretty devastating to their case.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:52     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
IMO it seems like the defense is using multiple strategies. His history, drug use, underlying conditions but most importantly the paramedics moving to a new location was bc they felt it wasn't safe. That gives support to the idea that the police were too distracted by the surroundings. Also that by moving GF they delayed necessary medical support that could have saved him. Add in that the Firefighter EMS weren't updated on the new location.
They are making it seem like it was a variety of factors. He directly asked whether the paramedic was able to insert the gel thing in the airway and whether there was any compression or resistance or injuries to the neck.
I mean I really don't understand why you would get arrested without evidence of forgery. I also don't understand why he wasn't given an opportunity to take a breath and calmly discuss getting into the car. Do they not have transport vans that could have been called? Why not just give him a minute- he's handcuffed.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:49     Subject: Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Whoa!! The fire captian just said " I wanted to report that an individual had been KILLED WHILE IN CUSTODY OF THE POLICE!!!!!"
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:40     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Early on McMillan said he was foaming at the mouth, which usually happens when someone is already dying.

A couple times Floyd moved while Chauvin was on him-he was still able to move.
Didn't he say that about after Floyd was on the ground and Chavin was on top of him?


It wasn't clear when he was foaming at the mouth.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:39     Subject: Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:What does everyone think of the EMT's? The 2nd one seemed really annoyed to be there, but it could have been just nerves. It was interesting when he said that any layman could do chest compressions. So, then why didn't the officer do this when in the back of the ambulance?


It seems like the EMT meant prior to EMS arrival (remember one part of the defense narrative is they called an ambulance and were waiting for it to arrive). I interpreted the EMT as saying they didn’t need to wait for EMS to arrive to do compressions on someone who is unresponsive. I think this is a reasonable statement and a significant part of the case. I believe Lane did assist with compressions in some way, early after EMS arrival, as EMS is hooking up monitors and a machine that can do compressions in the ambulance. I could be wrong on that. If he did, that will probably be a key element in his trial for his defense to create reasonable doubt that he “aided, abetted, conspired” with Chauvin to murder Floyd.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:31     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The video they just showed of the paramedics and the officers were on top of him- that viewpoint shows that the 2nd officer next to Chauvin had his hand on George Floyds back. There is no WAY in any dimension that he didnt know that George had stopped breathing.


Keung stated he can’t find a pulse prior to EMS arrival. This has been known from transcripts and body cam footage that were released last year. I don’t know exactly what the defense will try to do with this, because they probably won’t have Chauvin take the stand and the other officers can’t be called into this trial, hard to directly confront it. Could set up a narrative somewhere that he didn’t hear and was focused on crowd (as I recall, Chauvin doesn’t really respond when Keung says it, says “huh” or “what”). Prosecution actually showed a small part of that late yesterday but didn’t really dive into it. Defense is likely also setting up the idea that people who are using drugs can seem to pass out but then revive and start fighting. But another officer saying he can’t find a pulse is pretty incriminating and wouldn’t really fit well into that. Overall it has to be acknowledged there isn’t a great defense to a lot of aspects of this case. The defense is trying to create reasonable doubt.

As far as the passenger invoking the 5th - the witness list isn’t public but we can assumed there was a subpoena. Yesterday, one of the employees of Cup Foods stated he felt that the passenger was responsible for the counterfeit bill. (Note that the manager, who speaks with Lane at the beginning of the police response, seems to indicate Floyd is responsible and then what car they’re in). Shortly after that testimony, the motion was filed invoking the 5th. The manager didn’t testify yesterday.

As for what happened to the passengers - my basic recollection from transcripts and body cam - when Lane first got everyone out of the car, they were standing on the sidewalk, he tells them to stay there. There’s some back and forth, the female passenger says to Lane GF is scared because he’s been shot by police before (something GF also says, but I have never seen that confirmed). There’s a lot of crosstalk. At some point, probably at the beginning of the car struggle when only Lane and Keung are on scene and both trying to get GF in the car, the passengers seem left the scene. Snippets were shown yesterday, definitely of Lane approaching the car with his gun drawn.

These things might not be as big parts of this trial since Chauvin wasn’t there for them. They’re important in establishing the chain of events of course. Yesterday after the jury left there was some discussion brought by the defense about showing the full footage.

The videos are hard to watch, even the ones we’ve seen before. Brutal for the family, and they will have to go through it 3+ more times. My thoughts are with them and the witnesses.



I would think that they could have an expert on police matters testify that they reviewed the body worn camera footage and describe that the review revealed the officer said there was no pulse.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:29     Subject: Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Chauvin will be convicted. There is a video of the entire crime.End of story.
except Floyd had two illegals drugs in his system, had Covid, had a heart condition. I want him convicted too and think he killed him. But this is why it’s not cut and dry.


I think even if he didn't have any drugs the knee on the neck would have killed him.


Also, legally, the medical situation of the injured/killed person is not a valid defense to the seriousness of any injury caused to them. If you shoot a person, it doesn't matter that they had terminal cancer or were about to die of an overdose anyway; also maybe they could have been saved, but for you killing them.



Cause of death would matter though, since for murder charges you have to cause that person’s death. This case is probably going to be considerably more complex for jurors medically than a gunshot wound. But under MN law, the action just has to be a substantial contributing factor. So to use the gunshot example, I suppose that would be like if you shot them and they died from complications of the gunshot wound that would generally be survivable, maybe due to medical malpractice or something. It could be a risky case for the prosecutor though in a jury trial and depending on the facts they might stick with a lesser charge or plea.

This case has a ton of evidence though, particularly high quality video evidence. So the facts are much easier to establish compared to many cases.

It seems like Medical Examiner Baker will testify and show that the restraint was a substantial contributing factor, as he ruled in the autopsy. This is probably going to be complex and that can open the door for reasonable doubt. But the prosecutors will work hard to break it down, no doubt.

The other hurdle for the prosecution to clear then is essentially whether it was reasonable. You could commit homicide and not be legally responsible, if your force was justified. I think that the evidence will show the force was not reasonable. The key points being an officer says he can’t find a pulse but Chauvin continues the prone restraint, and the lack of prior violent behavior from GF. If Chauvin had done the prone restraint for a couple minutes and then rolled into a recovery position and attempted first aid, this would be a more defendable case even with the same autopsy ruling. But the lack of action even after another officer states they can’t find a pulse, is a high hurdle for the defense to clear. I don’t think they’re unaware, obviously they were looking at plea deals so they knew there were elements in this case where evidence would not favor the defendant.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 15:17     Subject: Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
What does everyone think of the EMT's? The 2nd one seemed really annoyed to be there, but it could have been just nerves. It was interesting when he said that any layman could do chest compressions. So, then why didn't the officer do this when in the back of the ambulance?
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 14:50     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:The video they just showed of the paramedics and the officers were on top of him- that viewpoint shows that the 2nd officer next to Chauvin had his hand on George Floyds back. There is no WAY in any dimension that he didnt know that George had stopped breathing.


Keung stated he can’t find a pulse prior to EMS arrival. This has been known from transcripts and body cam footage that were released last year. I don’t know exactly what the defense will try to do with this, because they probably won’t have Chauvin take the stand and the other officers can’t be called into this trial, hard to directly confront it. Could set up a narrative somewhere that he didn’t hear and was focused on crowd (as I recall, Chauvin doesn’t really respond when Keung says it, says “huh” or “what”). Prosecution actually showed a small part of that late yesterday but didn’t really dive into it. Defense is likely also setting up the idea that people who are using drugs can seem to pass out but then revive and start fighting. But another officer saying he can’t find a pulse is pretty incriminating and wouldn’t really fit well into that. Overall it has to be acknowledged there isn’t a great defense to a lot of aspects of this case. The defense is trying to create reasonable doubt.

As far as the passenger invoking the 5th - the witness list isn’t public but we can assumed there was a subpoena. Yesterday, one of the employees of Cup Foods stated he felt that the passenger was responsible for the counterfeit bill. (Note that the manager, who speaks with Lane at the beginning of the police response, seems to indicate Floyd is responsible and then what car they’re in). Shortly after that testimony, the motion was filed invoking the 5th. The manager didn’t testify yesterday.

As for what happened to the passengers - my basic recollection from transcripts and body cam - when Lane first got everyone out of the car, they were standing on the sidewalk, he tells them to stay there. There’s some back and forth, the female passenger says to Lane GF is scared because he’s been shot by police before (something GF also says, but I have never seen that confirmed). There’s a lot of crosstalk. At some point, probably at the beginning of the car struggle when only Lane and Keung are on scene and both trying to get GF in the car, the passengers seem left the scene. Snippets were shown yesterday, definitely of Lane approaching the car with his gun drawn.

These things might not be as big parts of this trial since Chauvin wasn’t there for them. They’re important in establishing the chain of events of course. Yesterday after the jury left there was some discussion brought by the defense about showing the full footage.

The videos are hard to watch, even the ones we’ve seen before. Brutal for the family, and they will have to go through it 3+ more times. My thoughts are with them and the witnesses.

Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 14:37     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:Early on McMillan said he was foaming at the mouth, which usually happens when someone is already dying.

A couple times Floyd moved while Chauvin was on him-he was still able to move.
Didn't he say that about after Floyd was on the ground and Chavin was on top of him?
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 14:27     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Early on McMillan said he was foaming at the mouth, which usually happens when someone is already dying.

A couple times Floyd moved while Chauvin was on him-he was still able to move.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 14:26     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mpls jury found it easy to convict the Somali-American rookie who killed the white lady who rapped on the squad car when they were investigating a reported rape in progress.


That was completely different. She was unarmed, obviously a lot less powerful than even the unarmed male officers, had committed no crime (in her life!), and was outside the vehicle. The officers were called out for a rape, so they knew to expect to see a woman in distress. What they saw was a woman in distress, and yet that officer shot her without hesitation. Over his partner from within the vehicle.

The Floyd case is very different. Floyd had high doses of hard narcotics in his system which can be fatal by itself, he had a deadly respiratory virus that has been killing hundreds of thousands of Americans, and he was a known criminal who was obviously strong enough to easily physically overpower Chauvin.

I don't think Chauvin seems like a particularly nice person, but I don't think he intended to kill Floyd that day. And if it wasn't for all the drugs and covid, which Chauvin couldn't have known about, then I'm not convinced that Floyd would have died.

Chauvin was a bit rough, but cops dealing with these types of criminals need to be. Polite language doesn't work, and they're trained not to use their weapons if they don't need to. He was probably showing off a bit for the crowd, but he also knew there were a lot of witnesses and that it was being recorded. He might be guilty of something but I don't believe he should go away for the death itself.


I strongly disagree. The police officer had a history of being rough with suspects. He used a choke technique that was completely uncalled for, and especially for that length of time. Objectively, he knew doing it for that long would potentially kill someone, and it did. Whether or not he was in a daze of a power trip or reflexively acted against the wishes of everyone around him, does not matter - as others have stated, he should have been master of the situation, controlled his punitive and contrarian urges, and he wasn't and didn't. He is absolutely guilty of second degree murder, the worst charge brought against him.





If the defendant has done this before and didn’t kill anyone then it increases the chances that people will see this as an accident. Especially since Floyd was obviously the biggest/strongest person he’s ever needed to arrest.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 13:41     Subject: Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The news is reporting that the friend who was with George that day and a passenger in his car, will invoke his 5th amendment right if asked to take the stand. Can anyone speculate on why?

Also, I'm curious, what happened to him once George was taken out of the police car and on the ground? Did the passenger guy just walk off, or was he there witnessing everything too?


Prosecutors helping the defense again this morning. Now the girlfriend’s up here, dressed up in a business suit , talking through their addiction like their suburbanites considering whether they need to go to Malibu for rehab. Ugh.

Now the girlfriend tells us he was always working out. Lifting weights, running, biking, always active. Unlimited endurance.

Um, that underlines just how monstrous and superhuman Floyd was. Now add drugs. Video don’t lie. George Floyd was huge and built. It took four of the police officers to get him out of the car. So when Officer Chauvin could keep him subdued while his fellow officers dealt with crowd control and protected against anyone slipping in from behind to attack them and free their comrade.

Accidents happen in the Fog of War, but he was just trying to protect all of us. The jury will get that.

Defense must be laughing. I love how the defense lawyer wishes her well “dealing with her opioid addiction” .

Minneapolis better batten down the hatches because Chauvin’s getting acquitted.


So...what does one wear to court?

Again, it's ok to just say you think it's fine to kill people that you feel are beneath you. It's more honest than the trash you wrote above.
+1 A business suit is very appropriate. And someone upthread made a really rude comment about Mr. McMillian and his white glasses and something about superfly. WTH! Mr. McMillian had on a suit and that person wanted to nitpick his style of glasses.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2021 13:40     Subject: Re:Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The prosecutors have some problem witnesses and they didn’t prepare them very well. Who dressed Mr. McMillan with his bright white glasses? He looks like he’s heading to the production set for Superfly.

This on top of the teenage kid and the plainclothes EMT whining about being ignored.

Fact is, the convenience store showed how enormous and powerful Floyd was. Now we’re supposed to think the drugs made him less dangerous?

Most of the jurors have seen movies where the thug looks like he’s subdued but was just playing possum. It’s too late when you’re taking the bullet or knife. Better to err on the side of safety.

And to think, all this could have been averted if Floyd had just used a real $20. Sad.


My goodness but you’re twisted. As if a property crime ALLEGATION justifies a death penalty absent due process.


Has there ever been confirmation the money was counterfeit? I have never seen any if there was.


Even if it were, FFS. A nonviolent offense should not have resulted in a death.

This is not the Philippines, we do not outright murder drug addicts or dealers.