Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We bought on Capitol Hill in 2003. I felt the same way. No neighborhood is static. We bought the nicest house we could afford ( and it needed a ton of work that we spent 10 years doing to bring it back from decades of neglect).

Are you kidding? I grew up on Capitol Hill and it’s been “gentrified” for decades. You must have bought in Hill East or something.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up in Baltimore, gentrification happens in poor white neighborhoods like Hampden and the old working class waterfront areas. Yet no one complains even though the base arguments remain the same. It shows that most of the race complaints are really class complaints.

As someone from Baltimore, I can tell you that the poor white trash selling their houses in Hampden are coming into unimaginable windfalls thanks to gentrification. They aren't complaining.

Please don't use that expression. It's a pejorative and demeaning to the people you're talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh? Because you're pushing people out of the neighborhood who possibly lived there for generations and can't afford it anymore (rent or property taxes) due to people like you.

Whether this bothers you or not is one thing but it's absolutely true that this is a real thing going on.

Right - but the question becomes - as an UMC white family - what should you do? I don't want to live surrounded by all white people. I want my kid to have a diverse friend group, racially, ethnically, and socio-economically. While yes, UMC white people moving into historically black neighborhoods pushes black people out. But the alternative is to move to a white-only area, which seems worse to me.

It seems to me that the system here is clearly racist, but that individual families moving to black neighborhoods (as primary residences) aren't doing anything wrong, and may in fact be doing the best they can to fight racism. What would you propose they do instead? Move to Arlington?

PP. The thing is, it's obviously fine and maybe even good for society when it's just one or two white families moving in and integrating the neighborhood (assuming you are decent people and use the neighborhood public schools/don't call the cops on your neighbors for noise or other petty complaints, etc.).

however, it gets to be a big problem without a good solution when it's tons of white families doing it and completely changing the cultural tenor of the area. See, for example: Brooklyn and all its myriad problems related to this issue.

You really don't get why the old families are unhappy about this? It's not just having to see white faces. It's all the restaurants and bars and stores that come in chasing their money, which they can't afford and which raise their rents. It's their schools changing and no longer servicing their community's needs.

There is a lot of literature about this issue, I shouldn't have to tell you this. None of this is a mystery.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

I grew up in public housing and i love my my pretty yard and and my big kitchen. I think you’re pretty gross.

That's totally fine - I too grew up as a FARMS student, but, it's totally normal for other people to look at people who ascribe to the "bigger, better, shinier" world view as tacky AF.

You think it's normal to believe you are the arbiter of what is big enough, and nice enough, and people who don't agree with you are tacky AF?

No, it isn't. Your parents did a crappy job with you.

Honestly, your parents gave you a very shaky moral core. You are the arbiter for what you think is appropriate. Others are the arbiters for what they think is appropriate. You are very judgmental - and yet think others shouldn't judge you...that's some serious mental gymnastics, Olga.

Ah, the classic trope. "You are judging me for being judgmental! *You're* judgmental!"

Let's review:

You: Posted by several times that people who want larger houses than you deem appropriate are materialistic, wasteful, and "tacky AF."
Me: (and others, please don;t think that I'm the only one): Call you out on it
You: You are judgmental!

And to be clear, I have never posted about where people should live. If you want to live in a 1 BR condo in the city, go for it. If you want a 5 BR house in the burbs, be my guest. But you have some sort of arbitrary size limit that you've concocted, and if someone goes over that, they are "tacky AF."

So, I guess I am judging you for being an ass, and having the critical reasoning skills of a turnip. Guilty as charged.

Please don't think there is only one person calling you tacky.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh? Because you're pushing people out of the neighborhood who possibly lived there for generations and can't afford it anymore (rent or property taxes) due to people like you.

Whether this bothers you or not is one thing but it's absolutely true that this is a real thing going on.

Right - but the question becomes - as an UMC white family - what should you do? I don't want to live surrounded by all white people. I want my kid to have a diverse friend group, racially, ethnically, and socio-economically. While yes, UMC white people moving into historically black neighborhoods pushes black people out. But the alternative is to move to a white-only area, which seems worse to me.

It seems to me that the system here is clearly racist, but that individual families moving to black neighborhoods (as primary residences) aren't doing anything wrong, and may in fact be doing the best they can to fight racism. What would you propose they do instead? Move to Arlington?

PP. The thing is, it's obviously fine and maybe even good for society when it's just one or two white families moving in and integrating the neighborhood (assuming you are decent people and use the neighborhood public schools/don't call the cops on your neighbors for noise or other petty complaints, etc.).

however, it gets to be a big problem without a good solution when it's tons of white families doing it and completely changing the cultural tenor of the area. See, for example: Brooklyn and all its myriad problems related to this issue.

You really don't get why the old families are unhappy about this? It's not just having to see white faces. It's all the restaurants and bars and stores that come in chasing their money, which they can't afford and which raise their rents. It's their schools changing and no longer servicing their community's needs.

There is a lot of literature about this issue, I shouldn't have to tell you this. None of this is a mystery.

Anonymous wrote:Huh? Because you're pushing people out of the neighborhood who possibly lived there for generations and can't afford it anymore (rent or property taxes) due to people like you.

Whether this bothers you or not is one thing but it's absolutely true that this is a real thing going on.

Anonymous wrote:Anyway this is what it means to really do the work of understanding the biases and racism within our country.

Yes you were able to buy a home in a neighborhood you desired that is now desirable.

However, for decades when working class black families lived in those neighborhoods they were not desirable. Resources were not provided, retailers would not service there, schools were allowed to decline and city services were not provided. Home values naturally plummeted devaluing the worth of those homes.

Decades later some plucky and entreprenuerial white people decided "hey I don't want to live in the burbs. i want to live in the hood."

They convince Sally and Mike to move there. They buy homes for dirt cheap from the original owners whose home values were depressed, bc in general black neighborhood home vales are in America.

More white ppl buy cheap homes. More companies start to take notice. They move in. Home values skyrocket! The original homeowners now cannot afford to live where they did due to rising taxes, maybe unscrupulous developers etc. Bc of course there are very few safety nets in our country.

Sally and Mike eventually sell their home and make a 400% profit and move to the lily white [and a sprinkle of Asian] enclave of "North" Arlington.

----I know many people who have done this.

Anonymous wrote:We bought on Capitol Hill in 2003. I felt the same way. No neighborhood is static. We bought the nicest house we could afford ( and it needed a ton of work that we spent 10 years doing to bring it back from decades of neglect).

Anonymous wrote:

We talk about moving again, seeing if we can find a close in suburbs that still has some density and real racial and socioeconomic diversity, but where prices aren't accelerating at quite the same rate and where we'd feel more kinship with our neighbors. I don't even know if one exists. I do think what's happening is unsustainable and I wish I knew th answer.

Close-in Silver Spring 20910! Dense, racially and economically diverse, and very friendly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up in Baltimore, gentrification happens in poor white neighborhoods like Hampden and the old working class waterfront areas. Yet no one complains even though the base arguments remain the same. It shows that most of the race complaints are really class complaints.

As someone from Baltimore, I can tell you that the poor white trash selling their houses in Hampden are coming into unimaginable windfalls thanks to gentrification. They aren't complaining.

Please don't use that expression. It's a pejorative and demeaning to the people you're talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not a gentrifier. I was a gentrifier when I bought there back in 2001 when there were just empty lots and no one out walking past dark. Our house was the most anyone had paid for a house in our block by about $100,000 - but it was beautiful. Our neighbors complained when we all went to protest the Giant being built so big with no green space - that's how I found out. But, then I gave everyone a ride back home and had cognac on our front porches. I loved that neighborhood. Felt like a true community. If you want to do some good to ease your soul - send your kids to Tubman and help turn that school around! Vote for politicians who want affordable housing. Don't try to shut down the public housing around 13th and Columbia. Support vocational efforts at Cardoza and the Marion Barry summer job program. And don't complain about crap. Finally, say hello!

Right on. Dont report school residency fraud,, and don't take over the PTA and drown out other voices. my notes from hill east.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up in Baltimore, gentrification happens in poor white neighborhoods like Hampden and the old working class waterfront areas. Yet no one complains even though the base arguments remain the same. It shows that most of the race complaints are really class complaints.

As someone from Baltimore, I can tell you that the poor white trash selling their houses in Hampden are coming into unimaginable windfalls thanks to gentrification. They aren't complaining.

Anonymous wrote:You are not a gentrifier. I was a gentrifier when I bought there back in 2001 when there were just empty lots and no one out walking past dark. Our house was the most anyone had paid for a house in our block by about $100,000 - but it was beautiful. Our neighbors complained when we all went to protest the Giant being built so big with no green space - that's how I found out. But, then I gave everyone a ride back home and had cognac on our front porches. I loved that neighborhood. Felt like a true community. If you want to do some good to ease your soul - send your kids to Tubman and help turn that school around! Vote for politicians who want affordable housing. Don't try to shut down the public housing around 13th and Columbia. Support vocational efforts at Cardoza and the Marion Barry summer job program. And don't complain about crap. Finally, say hello!