Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Actually, like alcohol use, smoking tobacco goes back 5000 years and is culturally significant in many cultures, but usually on ceremony, not as a frequent habit. But hey,myou keep defending your daily poison, your way.

I’m guessing you don’t want to know that drinking a bottle of wine is the same as smoking 5-10 cigarettes, right? Because you enjoy it.

What on earth are you talking about? The same as smoking cigarettes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Actually, like alcohol use, smoking tobacco goes back 5000 years and is culturally significant in many cultures, but usually on ceremony, not as a frequent habit. But hey,myou keep defending your daily poison, your way.

I’m guessing you don’t want to know that drinking a bottle of wine is the same as smoking 5-10 cigarettes, right? Because you enjoy it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're ok, as long as you don't go beyond that and start the heavy stuff.

No, it’s not that simple.

- recovering alcoholic

OP, there are lots of rationalization on here. It’s a slippery slope if you are drinking more than what you did when you started, which is something Annie Grace talks about. If you’re worried about your drinking, that’s already your red flag.

People will justify the “it’s not abnormal” thing, but the statistics will show you that no, most people aren’t actually drinking every day.

It’s not worth it, it’s not worth it, it’s not worth it. You will be forever chasing the buzz, and it will be fine in this age of mommy wine culture. But it isn’t actually helping you. It only gets worse, and that’s the insidiousness of it all. Everyone pictures the homeless person, or the down and out drunk, but that’s not all alcoholism looks like. It looks like me, with a job, a family, and the perfect life from the outside. And my bottle a day wine habit, plus whatever else anyone poured. But it was okay. Everyone had a few glasses a day, right? Of course, mine started to become hidden but it wasn’t always that way. I did have the hard stuff, but not always. I drank alone, but not always. My DH drank the same amount, but he doesn’t have the problem I do.

The thing is.. it’s not a problem until it becomes a problem, and by then, it’s a huge problem because you’ve already been asking if it’s a problem and avoiding the real answer.

I’m sure I’ll get raked over the coals for being an alcoholic, but that’s okay. I was just like all of you not that long ago , telling myself it was just one or two drinks. And it was, until it wasn’t.

I don't know why people would rake you over the coals. I think you raise a lot of good points. All of what you say can be true for some, but not everyone, and it's entirely normal for people who drink to wonder/worry about whether they're drinking too much -- worrying is something conditioned into women from birth and that alone doesn't mean that you have a problem.

But I do want to say that for many, many people you can drink 1-2 glasses a night or so for your entire life and never really develop a "problem." I personally wouldn't be comfortable with that level because to me it seems like a habit if it's every day, but that's kind of my point -- do you find it difficult to NOT drink, OP? Is 1-2 glasses becoming solidly 2, and 2 creeping into 2-3 (or are you being truthful about the size of a glass?)

If so, in your shoes I'd cut back. Or stop for a while and see what happens.

And this is where I don’t want to go all scorched earth over alcohol, but - no one needs to have 1-2 drinks a day. There actually zero benefit, and all consequence. It’s a problem because it’s not healthy, necessary, and actually dangerous. Of course, it’s been marketed to be awesome, healthful, and glamorous and no one cares.

But I hear everyone crying about the Europeans! Well, the UK is fighting a surge of alcoholism and liver related illnesses. And say what you want about Italy, Germany, whatever... in general, they aren’t drinking “to unwind”. A glass of wine is completely normal as part of a meal, or whatever. That said, do your research. They identify the most hazardous drinkers the same as here - highly educated, better off, people.

NP- the benefit is that I enjoy it. There are a lot of things with no benefit that I do because I enjoy. That's life. How sad an existence if I were to only stick to things for purely utilitarian purposes. We get one life, I would like to enjoy it in the ways I prefer to, and one glass of wine a night is included in that for me.

I had a very close friend pass away from cancer at 31. She was in perfect health. My grandparents and great grandparents all drank daily and lived healthily into their 90s. There are no guarantees in this life.

For what it's worth, I have dealt with anxiety in the past and have been prescribed daily Xanax. I don't take it because the studies about its long term effects worry me. I don't see how a glass of white wine as I fold laundry is any worse than that.

Well, the difference is Xanax is a prescription drug and you use it as such. Alcohol is free use, and it’s easy to not respect that it really is a carcinogen, a mood depressant, and a bu ch of other things. But, people will defend its use because they enjoy it, and honestly - that’s fine. But, do you feel the same way about heroin? I mean, if someone just enjoys it, what’s the difference?

You don’t need to defend your alcohol use to me, but yet.. you did. It’s a legal, and marketed drug and poison. Have you looked up it’s long term effects? Really, Xanax worries you but alcohol doesn’t? C’mon. DCUM must be the most “but look at the studiiiiiies” population on the internet, but no one seems to ever pick the studies that would support their own bias. And thus, 10% of the heavily educated population are problem drinkers.

Fried potatoes also cause cancer. Do you avoid those? Is everything in your house toxin free? So many things are carcinogens. Again, it's about risk tolerance.

Anonymous wrote:My father is an immigrant from a country that drinks a lot of wine. The guidance there is very different. When I go to that country am I allowed to follow that guidance? Or do the CDC rules follow me? What if I use the passport I have from that country? Or do American rules always take precedent?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Yeah, Heroin PP is stretching it. I do appreciate the criticism of how engrained alcohol consumption is to American culture, and I personally don't participate in or like "mommy juice" or sports-binge-drinking culture and I don't find it cute. But, I think the inclination to demonize alcohol to the degree PP does is problematic -- it makes people less likely to talk about their drinking, and driving it underground is not a good thing. No one likes sanctimony. One can simultaneously recognize that many people drink too much but dismiss their drinking as stress relief or normal, but also recognize that many people don't do that.

This is, by far, the most reasonable and correct response in this insane thread. A lot of drinking culture in this country is problematic. A lot of people drink occasionally and have no issues with alcohol dependency. Both things can be true at the same time.

I’m the “heroin PP” and I actually done demonize alcohol, but they point is - alcohol is far too elevated as some kind of miracle substance and we need to call that out. It’s actually not healthy, or safe, and there is a comfort with it that belies the actual hazards that very few people want to acknowledge. It’s a pervasive hazard in our society, and it’s sad how many people are on this thread saying “it’s fine!”.

The thing is “drinking normally” isn’t really even a thing. A drink a day by health standards is already too much per medical experts Ike the CDC. A drink a day is no longer “occasionally”.

Comparing alcohol to heroin is demonizing it. What on earth did you think you were doing?

Also, most people I know drink 1 drink a night or 1-2 drinks a few times a week. None of them are part of wine mom culture. No one thinks alcohol is a cure or miracle elixir. I don't know anyone like that. Perhaps in your orbit maybe. But you are extrapolating you're PERSONAL experience and making sweeping judgments, comparing alcohol drinkers to heroin addicted and then playing dumb when people get upset and saying "well of course you're upset, you're a defensive ALCOHOLiC". Just stop.

Hit a nerve much? C’mon folks, this is easy for such a numbers based board.

What does the CDC say about a drink a day for women?
What is considered a heavy drinker? What percentage of the population has a drink a day or more? What are the health benefits of alcohol? What are the Health risks of alcohol? What percentage of illness is attributed to alcohol? How many deaths a year are related to alcohol? How many hospitalizations? What is the number one thing that women stay away from when pregnant because they’re fearful for the effects of it on their fetus? How addictive is alcohol, and what is the social damage done by it?

I don’t need to make this personal. Science backed me once I cared enough to put down the bottle and open my eyes.

Oh yeah, and no one was worried much about the opioid crisis until it became a crisis. So spare me the shock over comparing alcohol to heroin. Thing is, there is no gateway drug to the wine aisle at the grocery store.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Yeah, Heroin PP is stretching it. I do appreciate the criticism of how engrained alcohol consumption is to American culture, and I personally don't participate in or like "mommy juice" or sports-binge-drinking culture and I don't find it cute. But, I think the inclination to demonize alcohol to the degree PP does is problematic -- it makes people less likely to talk about their drinking, and driving it underground is not a good thing. No one likes sanctimony. One can simultaneously recognize that many people drink too much but dismiss their drinking as stress relief or normal, but also recognize that many people don't do that.

This is, by far, the most reasonable and correct response in this insane thread. A lot of drinking culture in this country is problematic. A lot of people drink occasionally and have no issues with alcohol dependency. Both things can be true at the same time.

I’m the “heroin PP” and I actually done demonize alcohol, but they point is - alcohol is far too elevated as some kind of miracle substance and we need to call that out. It’s actually not healthy, or safe, and there is a comfort with it that belies the actual hazards that very few people want to acknowledge. It’s a pervasive hazard in our society, and it’s sad how many people are on this thread saying “it’s fine!”.

The thing is “drinking normally” isn’t really even a thing. A drink a day by health standards is already too much per medical experts Ike the CDC. A drink a day is no longer “occasionally”.

Comparing alcohol to heroin is demonizing it. What on earth did you think you were doing?

Also, most people I know drink 1 drink a night or 1-2 drinks a few times a week. None of them are part of wine mom culture. No one thinks alcohol is a cure or miracle elixir. I don't know anyone like that. Perhaps in your orbit maybe. But you are extrapolating you're PERSONAL experience and making sweeping judgments, comparing alcohol drinkers to heroin addicted and then playing dumb when people get upset and saying "well of course you're upset, you're a defensive ALCOHOLiC". Just stop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Actually, like alcohol use, smoking tobacco goes back 5000 years and is culturally significant in many cultures, but usually on ceremony, not as a frequent habit. But hey,myou keep defending your daily poison, your way.

I’m guessing you don’t want to know that drinking a bottle of wine is the same as smoking 5-10 cigarettes, right? Because you enjoy it.

Yeah, those ancient Marlboro Reds. And I have never in my life had more than two glasses of wine in one sitting, much less a bottle.

I find this black and white thinking very common amongst former alcoholics. The same defect in your brain that lends itself to an addictive personality makes it impossible for you to understand that for most people one glass of wine will not lead to moral turpitude and personal ruin. I know this is difficult for you to grasp- but many people can have one glass of wine and not want any more.

Yep, turn it on me. This is exactly why most people who have alcohol dependency issues DONT reach out for help. They are made to feel that the problem is them, not the fact that alcohol is toxic and addictive.

I’m actually not defective. I *choose* to not harm myself anymore.

I can see that your own thinking is very black and white, so while you’re calling the kettle... well, hello, pot. It’s too bad that you also can’t see that there is another side to your precious Chardonnay. And yes, I know it’s delicious and looks great in your crystal glasses. It’s also causing you an increased risk of cancer, and ages you, and harms your liver. Even one glass. I’m not the temperance movement, and I’ll even pour you a glass if you’re at my house because I actually don’t care about your physical or social ruin. But when someone asks about if they’re drinking too much, I’m going to call it like I see it and tell them the truth, which is that an alcohol free life is healthier and better, and that they’ve been lied to all this time. And no, that’s not a defect. Defending the use of alcohol when someone is finding it problematic (usually as a mechanism to defend your own use) is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Actually, like alcohol use, smoking tobacco goes back 5000 years and is culturally significant in many cultures, but usually on ceremony, not as a frequent habit. But hey,myou keep defending your daily poison, your way.

I’m guessing you don’t want to know that drinking a bottle of wine is the same as smoking 5-10 cigarettes, right? Because you enjoy it.

Yeah, those ancient Marlboro Reds. And I have never in my life had more than two glasses of wine in one sitting, much less a bottle.

I find this black and white thinking very common amongst former alcoholics. The same defect in your brain that lends itself to an addictive personality makes it impossible for you to understand that for most people one glass of wine will not lead to moral turpitude and personal ruin. I know this is difficult for you to grasp- but many people can have one glass of wine and not want any more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Yeah, Heroin PP is stretching it. I do appreciate the criticism of how engrained alcohol consumption is to American culture, and I personally don't participate in or like "mommy juice" or sports-binge-drinking culture and I don't find it cute. But, I think the inclination to demonize alcohol to the degree PP does is problematic -- it makes people less likely to talk about their drinking, and driving it underground is not a good thing. No one likes sanctimony. One can simultaneously recognize that many people drink too much but dismiss their drinking as stress relief or normal, but also recognize that many people don't do that.

This is, by far, the most reasonable and correct response in this insane thread. A lot of drinking culture in this country is problematic. A lot of people drink occasionally and have no issues with alcohol dependency. Both things can be true at the same time.

I’m the “heroin PP” and I actually done demonize alcohol, but they point is - alcohol is far too elevated as some kind of miracle substance and we need to call that out. It’s actually not healthy, or safe, and there is a comfort with it that belies the actual hazards that very few people want to acknowledge. It’s a pervasive hazard in our society, and it’s sad how many people are on this thread saying “it’s fine!”.

The thing is “drinking normally” isn’t really even a thing. A drink a day by health standards is already too much per medical experts Ike the CDC. A drink a day is no longer “occasionally”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Yeah, Heroin PP is stretching it. I do appreciate the criticism of how engrained alcohol consumption is to American culture, and I personally don't participate in or like "mommy juice" or sports-binge-drinking culture and I don't find it cute. But, I think the inclination to demonize alcohol to the degree PP does is problematic -- it makes people less likely to talk about their drinking, and driving it underground is not a good thing. No one likes sanctimony. One can simultaneously recognize that many people drink too much but dismiss their drinking as stress relief or normal, but also recognize that many people don't do that.

This is, by far, the most reasonable and correct response in this insane thread. A lot of drinking culture in this country is problematic. A lot of people drink occasionally and have no issues with alcohol dependency. Both things can be true at the same time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Actually, like alcohol use, smoking tobacco goes back 5000 years and is culturally significant in many cultures, but usually on ceremony, not as a frequent habit. But hey,myou keep defending your daily poison, your way.

I’m guessing you don’t want to know that drinking a bottle of wine is the same as smoking 5-10 cigarettes, right? Because you enjoy it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.

Yeah, Heroin PP is stretching it. I do appreciate the criticism of how engrained alcohol consumption is to American culture, and I personally don't participate in or like "mommy juice" or sports-binge-drinking culture and I don't find it cute. But, I think the inclination to demonize alcohol to the degree PP does is problematic -- it makes people less likely to talk about their drinking, and driving it underground is not a good thing. No one likes sanctimony. One can simultaneously recognize that many people drink too much but dismiss their drinking as stress relief or normal, but also recognize that many people don't do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad how strongly you will all defend alcohol to your deaths, just to justify your own use. You don’t think smoking was also once such a thing?

Well alcohol has been around for much of human history, while chemical filled cigarettes were mostly an invention of the 20th century. But keep plugging away at those false equivalencies.