Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

Well, the resources were not provided to "make it happen." And we now have widespread community transmission, so the point is moot.

We can keep arguing about what should have happened in September through mid-November but after 42 million go-rounds about it here, it seems that may not bear fruit. How about we focus on what we are going to have to do in an environment of widespread transmission, since that is where we are now?

Welp, Florida pulled it off and their cases went down throughout the fall. They are actually in better shape than other parts of the country right now. There honestly isn't much correlation at all between where schools are open and where they aren't and where COVID is raging because schools aren't driving it one way or the other.

Anonymous wrote:
There is a vocal handful on these boards that clamor for school openings and quote dubious claims by people who are not pandemic experts.
We must ignore them. They are literally pushing for more deaths.

As opposed to the "pandemic experts" (what the hell is that??) who are at the health department?

You have zero clue what you are talking about.

Meanwhile, European countries are starting to see pretty rapid declines in infection rates by shuttering sources of high exposure and risk while keeping schools open. The US has taken the exact opposite approach and cases are increasing rapidly in 86% of counties, including in areas where schools are closed and have been closed the whole time.

SCHOOLS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM -- You guys literally don't know how to interpret data and has led to irrational and, frankly, idiotic decisions that is not only leading to more deaths but will lead to long-term issues in our economy, society, and individual lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow some random pediatrician expressed a personal opinion in opposition to any credible public health expert. Some people only believe what they want to

They print this garbage because it gets page views. The guy's opinion carries little weight except with low IQ parents.

What a dumb post on your part.

So far, there are only 34,000 responses to the MCPS parent preference survey. I'm going to assume that the response group is disproportionately western/wealthy/white, as previously.

And of those 34,000 responses, only a bare majority (56%) opted for hybrid.

That's not a public consensus for having school.

When there's a public consensus for school, there will be school. That's what will change things. Not an op ed in the New York Times, and not endless repetition on DCUM of the same arguments DCUM has been having since June.

Anonymous wrote:Wow some random pediatrician expressed a personal opinion in opposition to any credible public health expert. Some people only believe what they want to

They print this garbage because it gets page views. The guy's opinion carries little weight except with low IQ parents.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/opinion/schools-closing-covid.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I couldn't agree more and am really disappointed with MCPS and their non-scientific "health metrics" which we will certainly never meet, meaning no in-person school for our kids this year.

This isn’t about the kids. This is a workplace safety issue. The sooner you realize that and understand that your feelings as a parent are completely irrelevant, the sooner you will understand the reality of the situation.

Why the hell would a doctor write about schools? Maybe a teacher should write about the medical workplace?

Seriously. Unless teachers can be outfitted with covid floor level ppe, no way they should be forced to teach in person.

Yet somehow daycare workers and private school teachers and Catholic school teachers and German teachers are teaching in person ...

That other employees are exploited -- likely because they lack protections afforded by strong unions -- hardly means that others should similarly be exploited.

I am a Catholic school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since early September. I do not feel exploited, nor do my colleagues in my school. Please do not presume. We are adults capable of assessing our own risks and of making our own decisions.

+100000 public school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since late August. Do NOT speak for us.

Do you have 35 kids in a classroom who change classrooms for 8 periods in an over capacity building where each teacher doesn't have their own classroom and very little cleaning?

Our school has overcrowding issues and I am a high school teacher so yes students change classes. Our district STARTED with the default of opening schools this fall and then asked "how can we make it work?". I am grateful for all of the work my district did to get creative in finding solutions to the various issues associated with re-opening schools instead of looking at the existence of issues and throwing their hands up "well, those issues exist so I guess we can't open."

+1! This is exactly what infuriated me about MCPS’ approach. We didn’t start from the question of “how can we make this safe” but “can we -ever- reopen”. This difference is hugely important because the PP’s school’s approach leads to creativity, solutions, energy, movement. MCPS’s approach does not. I know that DL is going to be the only that that works sometimes, for some populations, but MCPS owns enough real estate, and the weather was fine this fall, that they could have done something. Instead we have shrugs and head shakes and over the top concern and worry about ridiculous health metrics. We didn’t frame the question right from the beginning and we got inertia.

Exactly. MCPS doesn't even know what will work and what won't work (along with iterations along the way) because they've been unable to pull their thumbs out of their butts. They're no closer to bringing a student back now than they were in spring. So instead, they set up impossible-to-meet metrics barriers so they can sit around with their stupid "woe is me" expressions.

Drives.Me.Crazy. Yes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/opinion/schools-closing-covid.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I couldn't agree more and am really disappointed with MCPS and their non-scientific "health metrics" which we will certainly never meet, meaning no in-person school for our kids this year.

This isn’t about the kids. This is a workplace safety issue. The sooner you realize that and understand that your feelings as a parent are completely irrelevant, the sooner you will understand the reality of the situation.

Why the hell would a doctor write about schools? Maybe a teacher should write about the medical workplace?

Seriously. Unless teachers can be outfitted with covid floor level ppe, no way they should be forced to teach in person.

Yet somehow daycare workers and private school teachers and Catholic school teachers and German teachers are teaching in person ...

That other employees are exploited -- likely because they lack protections afforded by strong unions -- hardly means that others should similarly be exploited.

I am a Catholic school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since early September. I do not feel exploited, nor do my colleagues in my school. Please do not presume. We are adults capable of assessing our own risks and of making our own decisions.

+100000 public school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since late August. Do NOT speak for us.

Do you have 35 kids in a classroom who change classrooms for 8 periods in an over capacity building where each teacher doesn't have their own classroom and very little cleaning?

Our school has overcrowding issues and I am a high school teacher so yes students change classes. Our district STARTED with the default of opening schools this fall and then asked "how can we make it work?". I am grateful for all of the work my district did to get creative in finding solutions to the various issues associated with re-opening schools instead of looking at the existence of issues and throwing their hands up "well, those issues exist so I guess we can't open."

+1! This is exactly what infuriated me about MCPS’ approach. We didn’t start from the question of “how can we make this safe” but “can we -ever- reopen”. This difference is hugely important because the PP’s school’s approach leads to creativity, solutions, energy, movement. MCPS’s approach does not. I know that DL is going to be the only that that works sometimes, for some populations, but MCPS owns enough real estate, and the weather was fine this fall, that they could have done something. Instead we have shrugs and head shakes and over the top concern and worry about ridiculous health metrics. We didn’t frame the question right from the beginning and we got inertia.

Exactly. MCPS doesn't even know what will work and what won't work (along with iterations along the way) because they've been unable to pull their thumbs out of their butts. They're no closer to bringing a student back now than they were in spring. So instead, they set up impossible-to-meet metrics barriers so they can sit around with their stupid "woe is me" expressions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/opinion/schools-closing-covid.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I couldn't agree more and am really disappointed with MCPS and their non-scientific "health metrics" which we will certainly never meet, meaning no in-person school for our kids this year.

This isn’t about the kids. This is a workplace safety issue. The sooner you realize that and understand that your feelings as a parent are completely irrelevant, the sooner you will understand the reality of the situation.

Why the hell would a doctor write about schools? Maybe a teacher should write about the medical workplace?

Seriously. Unless teachers can be outfitted with covid floor level ppe, no way they should be forced to teach in person.

Yet somehow daycare workers and private school teachers and Catholic school teachers and German teachers are teaching in person ...

That other employees are exploited -- likely because they lack protections afforded by strong unions -- hardly means that others should similarly be exploited.

I am a Catholic school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since early September. I do not feel exploited, nor do my colleagues in my school. Please do not presume. We are adults capable of assessing our own risks and of making our own decisions.

+100000 public school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since late August. Do NOT speak for us.

Do you have 35 kids in a classroom who change classrooms for 8 periods in an over capacity building where each teacher doesn't have their own classroom and very little cleaning?

Our school has overcrowding issues and I am a high school teacher so yes students change classes. Our district STARTED with the default of opening schools this fall and then asked "how can we make it work?". I am grateful for all of the work my district did to get creative in finding solutions to the various issues associated with re-opening schools instead of looking at the existence of issues and throwing their hands up "well, those issues exist so I guess we can't open."

+1! This is exactly what infuriated me about MCPS’ approach. We didn’t start from the question of “how can we make this safe” but “can we -ever- reopen”. This difference is hugely important because the PP’s school’s approach leads to creativity, solutions, energy, movement. MCPS’s approach does not. I know that DL is going to be the only that that works sometimes, for some populations, but MCPS owns enough real estate, and the weather was fine this fall, that they could have done something. Instead we have shrugs and head shakes and over the top concern and worry about ridiculous health metrics. We didn’t frame the question right from the beginning and we got inertia.

Anonymous wrote:Your child's mental health is not fine, because she has a psychopath for a mother.

DCUM gotta DCUM

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow some random pediatrician expressed a personal opinion in opposition to any credible public health expert. Some people only believe what they want to

Yup. They parrot all these OPINION pieces as if it means anything. Pro tip: It doesn't.

Does your opinion post mean anything? Expert tip: It doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is a vocal handful on these boards that clamor for school openings and quote dubious claims by people who are not pandemic experts.
We must ignore them. They are literally pushing for more deaths.

Literally every health expert thinks schools should reopen. This is not a "handful" of voices. The only ones against it are teachers' unions.

The thing this guy calls for (whom I ageee with, by the way) is that schools should have massive virus testing regimes to protect teachers, a la universities. That would take a few billion dollars investment, but it’s worth it. I’m hopeful as we transition to Biden Harris, that sensible solution will come to the fore.i just feel like this school year is already too far gone. My kids are great students, 8 and 11, but so depressed. They barely go anywhere in a school day. Maybe a short wallk in the neighborhood. It’s really taking a toll. My 3rd grade cries regularly and has started having daily migraines. We do see friends on occcassion, at a park, masked, etc., and kids play tennis, but it is not enough. And as it gets colder, the isolation gets worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow some random pediatrician expressed a personal opinion in opposition to any credible public health expert. Some people only believe what they want to

Yup. They parrot all these OPINION pieces as if it means anything. Pro tip: It doesn't.

Did you miss the list of credible public health experts in favor of opening schools that another PP posted?

Here it is again:

how about the Dean of the Brown School of Medicine?

"There’s no doubt in my mind that schools need to be bolder than they’re being. "

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/11/03/scho...be-bolder-about-reopening.html

how about the policy lab a the Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania?

"In addition to protecting children and families from the damaging health effects of this virus, it is also imperative that we continue to safely reopen society, prepare for a potential resurgence of COVID-19 this fall and winter, and address the humanitarian impacts resulting from social distancing and disruptions to caregivers’ abilities to work and youth school attendance.:

https://policylab.chop.edu/project/responding-covid-19

how about these experts published in the New England Journal of Medicine?

"We believe that safely reopening schools full-time for all elementary school children should therefore be a top national priority ... Even under conditions of moderate transmission (<10 cases per 100,000 people),12 however, we believe that primary schools should be recognized as essential services — and school personnel as essential workers — and that school reopening plans should be developed and financed accordingly."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMms2024920

How about the medical director of Children's Hospital here in DC?

""As a pediatrician, I am really seeing the negative impacts of these school closures on children," Dr. Danielle Dooley, a medical director at Children's National Hospital in Washington, D.C., told NPR. She ticked off mental health problems, hunger, obesity due to inactivity, missing routine medical care and the risk of child abuse — on top of the loss of education. "Going to school is really vital for children. They get their meals in school, their physical activity, their health care, their education, of course."

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/21/925794511/were-the-...-reopening-schools-exaggerated

How about these other experts published in JAMA?

"Given the limited resources of public schools, in the event of reopening, school districts should devote efforts to interventions that are well supported by public health officials and feasible to implement. First, mask requirements should be enforced for all staff and students for grade levels K-12 through new dress code policies. Second, districts should implement the practice of cohorting, a strategy for keeping small groups of students together, which in effect limits the exposure of students and staff to other contacts.8 Because school districts may not have the resources or budget to make extensive changes to their facilities, this practice coupled with modified scheduling could allow all students to have at least some in-person instruction each week while ensuring physical distancing. At a minimum, districts should prioritize offering in-person instruction to K-5 students, students with disabilities, students who might not be able to access remote instruction,3 and perhaps to students who were already having difficulty attaining proficiency at their grade level."

https://jamanetwork.com/channels/health-forum/fullarticle/2769782

How about this research from Europe?

"Nowhere, the research found, was there a spike that coincided with reopening: "What we found is that the school [being opened] makes absolutely no difference," Álvarez told NPR."

https://jamanetwork.com/channels/health-forum/fullarticle/2769782

Anonymous wrote:Wow some random pediatrician expressed a personal opinion in opposition to any credible public health expert. Some people only believe what they want to

Yup. They parrot all these OPINION pieces as if it means anything. Pro tip: It doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

Well, the resources were not provided to "make it happen." And we now have widespread community transmission, so the point is moot.

We can keep arguing about what should have happened in September through mid-November but after 42 million go-rounds about it here, it seems that may not bear fruit. How about we focus on what we are going to have to do in an environment of widespread transmission, since that is where we are now?

Anonymous wrote:Putting small children online for 12+ months of “school” is gross. Save the children.

So, all the videos, tv, apps are ok, just not school. Got it.