Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH likes status quo. I’m not working right now, so he wants me to continue not working.
If I were working, he would want me to keep working.

He also doesn’t understand any of my angst about it or why it feels like a big decision.

Who cares what your husband wants? What do you want? It is 2020 and women should be able to financially take care of themselves. Actually they should have been able to at year 1995+.

I care what he thinks because he is my partner in this weird non-profit we have started that sucks up all of our time and resources. He is also my best friend.
Why do you hate men so much?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love SAH. That is why I do it. I don’t have some political motive. It makes me happy. The end.

Livin in Lala land. You will be surprised by a rude awakening. Good luck!

Not PP. You seem emotionally invested in the idea that a SAHM can't be or remain happy.

Anonymous wrote:I love SAH. That is why I do it. I don’t have some political motive. It makes me happy. The end.

Livin in Lala land. You will be surprised by a rude awakening. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:DH likes status quo. I’m not working right now, so he wants me to continue not working.
If I were working, he would want me to keep working.

He also doesn’t understand any of my angst about it or why it feels like a big decision.

Who cares what your husband wants? What do you want? It is 2020 and women should be able to financially take care of themselves. Actually they should have been able to at year 1995+.

Covid restrictions may lead to upheaval for longer than we think. I'm just not sure now would be the time to plan to return to work. Ride this out a bit longer and reconsider in a year, my advice.

I am happy to be a SAHM and my kids and husband benefit. I am a SAHM mainly because of the fact that I am very secure in my marriage and trust my husband. Also, we are not hurting economically even though I am pretty frugal. Having said that I would tell this to every girl that they need to be educated, have money that they control and aim for an education that provides a financially secure career. Why? Because you cannot be without options when you go into a marriage or have kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.

How interesting that the really bad bosses aren't held responsible for their bad management skills, but instead other women who are not even working are to blame for their bad behavior.

Women who never even met these asshole bosses are to blame for their shit.

Until we start holding bad bosses responsible for their own actions, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Poor victimized male bosses who can't even be held responsible for their decisions... Let's go right back to Eve and the apple, shall we? Poor victimized men.

Exactly. It's not the boss...it's his wife. Sure!

Yes, because the wife, by giving up and staying home, enables her DH to be an asshole. If she gave him equal responsibilities of home and kids, he would have empathy for other working parents.

Ahh...now who can't see past the end of their nose? You were in a situation where you think things would have been better for you if a woman had been working out of the home. But a) you don't know that that's true even for that one specific situation, and b) that certainly doesn't mean that it generalizes to all situations. It doesn't generalize to mine.

Also, how do you feel about people in the workforce who never marry, who are childfree, who have grown children, who have live-in childcare from hired help or family, who lost primary custody of their children in a divorce? Are their choices okay? Or should everyone be required to have exactly the same situation you do at home?

+1. People can be jerk bosses for a lot of reasons besides their wife! Personality, their own experiences as an employee working their own way up, insecurity when it comes to their business' prospects etc.

Very easy to demonize the woman behind the man though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.

How interesting that the really bad bosses aren't held responsible for their bad management skills, but instead other women who are not even working are to blame for their bad behavior.

Women who never even met these asshole bosses are to blame for their shit.

Until we start holding bad bosses responsible for their own actions, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Poor victimized male bosses who can't even be held responsible for their decisions... Let's go right back to Eve and the apple, shall we? Poor victimized men.

Exactly. It's not the boss...it's his wife. Sure!

Yes, because the wife, by giving up and staying home, enables her DH to be an asshole. If she gave him equal responsibilities of home and kids, he would have empathy for other working parents.

Ahh...now who can't see past the end of their nose? You were in a situation where you think things would have been better for you if a woman had been working out of the home. But a) you don't know that that's true even for that one specific situation, and b) that certainly doesn't mean that it generalizes to all situations. It doesn't generalize to mine.

Also, how do you feel about people in the workforce who never marry, who are childfree, who have grown children, who have live-in childcare from hired help or family, who lost primary custody of their children in a divorce? Are their choices okay? Or should everyone be required to have exactly the same situation you do at home?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.

How interesting that the really bad bosses aren't held responsible for their bad management skills, but instead other women who are not even working are to blame for their bad behavior.

Women who never even met these asshole bosses are to blame for their shit.

Until we start holding bad bosses responsible for their own actions, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Poor victimized male bosses who can't even be held responsible for their decisions... Let's go right back to Eve and the apple, shall we? Poor victimized men.

Exactly. It's not the boss...it's his wife. Sure!

Yes, because the wife, by giving up and staying home, enables her DH to be an asshole. If she gave him equal responsibilities of home and kids, he would have empathy for other working parents.

\


Poor guys. The guys who are married - it is their wives' fault.
The guys who are single - it is their moms' fault.

Any woman who chooses not to work - it is her fault.

Men are not responsible for their actions. They aren't responsible for being crappy bosses.

You people are gross.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.

What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.

What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...

You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.

I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.

So much to unpack but in short you want everyone to care about the issue you care most about with the same level of passion and fervor. That isn't going to happen. Lots of people care about a lot of different things the improve the world. Sure, I support workplace equality but that's not my passion and MY cause. I care about climate change, healthcare access and equality and animal rights. You might care less about those things. What I can assure you is that insulting and bullying people because they don't share you passion is NOT the way to bring people to your cause.

Eh. Your brain has probably turned to mush anyway. Not like any cause is going to benefit much from you being “passionate” about it (which means what, join a couple Facebook groups, lol)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.

What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.

What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...

You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.

I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.

So much to unpack but in short you want everyone to care about the issue you care most about with the same level of passion and fervor. That isn't going to happen. Lots of people care about a lot of different things the improve the world. Sure, I support workplace equality but that's not my passion and MY cause. I care about climate change, healthcare access and equality and animal rights. You might care less about those things. What I can assure you is that insulting and bullying people because they don't share you passion is NOT the way to bring people to your cause.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.

What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.

What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...

You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.

I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.

So much to unpack but in short you want everyone to care about the issue you care most about with the same level of passion and fervor. That isn't going to happen. Lots of people care about a lot of different things the improve the world. Sure, I support workplace equality but that's not my passion and MY cause. I care about climate change, healthcare access and equality and animal rights. You might care less about those things. What I can assure you is that insulting and bullying people because they don't share you passion is NOT the way to bring people to your cause.

NP.

Stupid mommy-wars BS again and again. Another thread full of knee-jerk defensive responses that don't even address what the PP they are responding to was actually trying to say. Multiple PPs generalizing based on personal experiences without actually trying to "listen" to or understand what others are writing.

Why should SAHMs feel they have to justify staying home with their kids? They shouldn't have to. Why do working moms have to justify working for whatever reason they do it? They shouldn't, either. There are so many individual family stories. If someone on a message board questions your choice, why do you have denigrate theirs? Ignore them. You know why you don't? Because our society still treats women like second-class citizens and criticizes their choices no matter what they do. Because you're damned if you do or damned if you don't. So we all end up feeling on the defensive. When you pull out the tropes to insult a SAHM or to put down a working mom, you are participating in this instead of fighting against it.

To the specific PP above me: The things you mention should be on everyone's short list. Too many people around here that just wave their hands and say, my life is good, F the rest of you. If you care about equality, it should be for all people, including, of course, women. Not just the women you know, not just wealthy women, all women. Sure, many people have a cause that speaks to them the most, but for the rest, you can still support it with word and deed in whatever small ways you can. So how about starting with not saying stupid things on a message board? That takes barely any energy at all.

Women don't have to work to be feminists. SAHMs going on about how feminism is just about having choice. I'm happy for you that you had that choice, but you are in the minority. And the system is still stacked against women. Supporting efforts to make the workplace more family-friendly and equitable will make things better for all families. You don't have to deny the realities of the inequalities that remain and affect most women to justify your own choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.

What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.

What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...

You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.

I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.

So much to unpack but in short you want everyone to care about the issue you care most about with the same level of passion and fervor. That isn't going to happen. Lots of people care about a lot of different things the improve the world. Sure, I support workplace equality but that's not my passion and MY cause. I care about climate change, healthcare access and equality and animal rights. You might care less about those things. What I can assure you is that insulting and bullying people because they don't share you passion is NOT the way to bring people to your cause.

I probably would have stayed at home if my job was in a field that was time intensive or inflexible. My mom stayed at home for this reason. But I’m lucky my job is a one with a lot of decently paid, flexible mommy track type jobs. I have 500 hours of leave saved right now.

I love SAH. That is why I do it. I don’t have some political motive. It makes me happy. The end.