Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 20:08     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:PP again wanted to add I speak both Russian and English. I was hired so they could learn English with me and at preschool. When she stopped speaking at home we all switched to Russian, she still refused to speak it.

A 3 year old?
I know that with older kids a change in the dominant language can cause first language attrition. A 3 year old is still learning to speak. Most likely their passive knowledge of the language was much stronger than their verbal.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 19:59     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
PP again wanted to add I speak both Russian and English. I was hired so they could learn English with me and at preschool. When she stopped speaking at home we all switched to Russian, she still refused to speak it.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 19:57     Subject: Re:Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes. Right or wrong; common or uncommon; right or wrong - according to etiquette it’s rude to speak a second language (or whisper) in the company of people who don’t understand the language.

It’s not hard to switch to English. My kids learned both easily and knew when to speak French and when to speak English.


But Op's kid is REFUSING speaking her language to her. Her only option is to change her behavior and parenting, if she wants different results. It sounds like she tried it your way and it is failing. Good for you that it worked for YOUR kids, but it isn't working for OP's.



Sometimes this doesn't work. Sometimes the child chooses what language they want to speak in exclusively. I was a nanny for years for a Russian family, their daughter refused to speak to them in Russian.


From my perspective, as a parent who dealt with this - she called their bluff and they let it go. It is a lot of work, and they chose to let the language go for whatever reasons. We all have to make parenting decisions and I would not judge their choices, but this was their choice to not push the issue, to not hire a Russian nanny, to not go and stay with Russian speaking grandparents, whatever. Perhaps they were dealing with other things and did not have the bandwidth to fight this battle.


You kind of are judhing their choicees. She was 3 at the time. I've lost touch with the family, so maybe she's interested in her parent's language now, but for that time she refused. Her brother kept speaking in Russian.

I said this not say that OP shouldn't try with her children, but children aren't robots. They dodn't always do what we wish.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 19:06     Subject: Re:Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes. Right or wrong; common or uncommon; right or wrong - according to etiquette it’s rude to speak a second language (or whisper) in the company of people who don’t understand the language.

It’s not hard to switch to English. My kids learned both easily and knew when to speak French and when to speak English.


But Op's kid is REFUSING speaking her language to her. Her only option is to change her behavior and parenting, if she wants different results. It sounds like she tried it your way and it is failing. Good for you that it worked for YOUR kids, but it isn't working for OP's.



Sometimes this doesn't work. Sometimes the child chooses what language they want to speak in exclusively. I was a nanny for years for a Russian family, their daughter refused to speak to them in Russian.


From my perspective, as a parent who dealt with this - she called their bluff and they let it go. It is a lot of work, and they chose to let the language go for whatever reasons. We all have to make parenting decisions and I would not judge their choices, but this was their choice to not push the issue, to not hire a Russian nanny, to not go and stay with Russian speaking grandparents, whatever. Perhaps they were dealing with other things and did not have the bandwidth to fight this battle.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 19:01     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:Op, it would be more polite to switch to English when you are over at someone’s house or when you’re out with friends who do not speak English. But in this case, you need to decide if it’s more important to be 100% polite or to teach and reinforce your native language.

In case of your husband, let it be mutual decision, if your husband is ok with you speaking always with your kids in your native language, then that’s fine. If he prefers, you can switch to English when he’s around.


Her kids are little and it will take less time to get the kids on board with speaking the language to her if she goes all in at first. If she switches to english when around other people, it will take much longer, if they go back to speaking it at all. This is the critical time, but it won't always be like this.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 18:50     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Op, it would be more polite to switch to English when you are over at someone’s house or when you’re out with friends who do not speak English. But in this case, you need to decide if it’s more important to be 100% polite or to teach and reinforce your native language.

In case of your husband, let it be mutual decision, if your husband is ok with you speaking always with your kids in your native language, then that’s fine. If he prefers, you can switch to English when he’s around.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 18:37     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why does DH not speak your language?! He needs to step up.


+1.

My husband speaks Hebrew to our children; I speak English to them. My Hebrew isn't great, but it's important to us that our children grow up in a bi-lingual home, so I'm learning Hebrew right along with them.


I'm a pp who has 2 sisters in law that English is not their primary language.

In the case of the one who would only speak her native language with child (and his now divorced from my brother)--he did try to learn her language. It is a language considered one of the more difficult ones to learn (for English speakers) and has a completely different writing system (Asian language.)
It doesn't matter now. A judge in family court decided that even if she wants to speak to her children exclusively in her language, they aren't with her more than 50% of the time.



The judge sounds like a backwoods kind of person if that was their logic. 50/50 is better for the kids in a divorce, but not because of home language. I truly doubt the judge said that but sometimes family court judges regularly say ridiculous things that show they are morons.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 18:34     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am the pp above that simply said "yes"

BUT

then I noticed you said in front of your Dh...
So your DH can not understand your native language and you will speak to your child in front of him, knowing he can't understand?
That is truly horrible.

It is the One Parent, One Language recommended to me. One parent (or both) speak their language to their children exclusively so that they are always responsible to speak that language with that parent. The parents together speak their common language. So in effect you ask your child to brush their teeth in your native language and turn to your spouse to ask about their day in your common language.


Who ever "recommended" that to you is a terrible person.
You are creating a negative situation with the other parent.

Oh please. I speak in my native language to my kids in front of my spouse. If spouse wants to understand, he/she can learn the language.


And if you want to speak your "native" language you can move back to your "native" country.


Because the English native speakers are leaving to go to England? Are we leaving the country back to Native Americans and their languages now? I'm surprised you are so progressive! Good for you!
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 18:22     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:And if you want to speak your "native" language you can move back to your "native" country.

Can people marry someone from the neighboring village or is that too wild and dangerous for you?
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 18:14     Subject: Re:Is it rude to speak a second language with children
If we are in a group socializing with people who don’t speak our language then we speak English.

If we are just in public at the grocery store or at the doctors office or somewhere amongst strangers, we speak our native language.

We have never, not once ever, talked about someone in front of us in our native language. What would there be to gossip about with my kids regarding a stranger? It’s weird to me tHat anyone would assume I’m talking about you to my children. You are not interesting to them.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 18:05     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am the pp above that simply said "yes"

BUT

then I noticed you said in front of your Dh...
So your DH can not understand your native language and you will speak to your child in front of him, knowing he can't understand?
That is truly horrible.

It is the One Parent, One Language recommended to me. One parent (or both) speak their language to their children exclusively so that they are always responsible to speak that language with that parent. The parents together speak their common language. So in effect you ask your child to brush their teeth in your native language and turn to your spouse to ask about their day in your common language.


Who ever "recommended" that to you is a terrible person.
You are creating a negative situation with the other parent.

Oh please. I speak in my native language to my kids in front of my spouse. If spouse wants to understand, he/she can learn the language.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 17:24     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why does DH not speak your language?! He needs to step up.


+1.

My husband speaks Hebrew to our children; I speak English to them. My Hebrew isn't great, but it's important to us that our children grow up in a bi-lingual home, so I'm learning Hebrew right along with them.


I'm a pp who has 2 sisters in law that English is not their primary language.

In the case of the one who would only speak her native language with child (and his now divorced from my brother)--he did try to learn her language. It is a language considered one of the more difficult ones to learn (for English speakers) and has a completely different writing system (Asian language.)
It doesn't matter now. A judge in family court decided that even if she wants to speak to her children exclusively in her language, they aren't with her more than 50% of the time.

Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 17:22     Subject: Re:Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People doing this in public drives me nuts. Partially because I've encountered so many people speaking another language in public to talk about people they are around or right next to. They automatically assume that you can't speak their language and start talking about you.
I also find it rude. A coworker I used to sit next to invited me to lunch with a few other female coworkers from another floor. They all spoke their native language at one point during lunch. They knew that I didn't know their language. My coworker thought nothing of speaking her native language throughout lunch, keeping me out of the conversation. There have been plenty of other instances like this. Whether its at the hair or nail salon, dentist office, grocery store, restaurant, or wherever. Its rude.
I'm all for people teaching their kids their native language or expanding kids' culture. My kids learn about DH's culture and language at home.


so basically people are not allowed to speak their native language around you?


I didn't say that. Just in case it wasn't clear to you, I did say that I think its rude to speak in one's native language when your intent is to exclude or single someone out that doesn't speak that language.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 17:08     Subject: Is it rude to speak a second language with children
Anonymous wrote:when you are in the presence of English speakers? I speak my native language with my children when we are alone, but I find it awkward and impolite to speak it in the presence of my DH, friends, playground, etc. because we all also speak English. However, this has become a problem in raising bilingual children because they always respond in English to me. Would you find it rude if someone spoke a different language around you though everyone present speaks English?


My husband speaks Arabic and did not speak to the kids in Arabic for this reason. I really wish he would have at home. I would have put up with the need to translate or go without knowing if it had helped instill a second language in my kids.

It gets a little trickier if you are with friends. But short conversations should be fine. Specific to the kid and not the group. "Please wash your hands before lunch." And so on.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2020 17:04     Subject: Re:Is it rude to speak a second language with children
I didn’t follow the entire thread but I will speak my language to my children and then repeat it in English for the benefit of the English speaker.
It works.