Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 10:48     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can't do therapy until all parties stipulate that the affair was wrong.

Am I nuts?


Nope. Find a new therapist.


+100. Seriously dump this therapist. This person isn’t the right one. He isn’t listening to you at all and so not a good therapist. Why accept a subpar solution?


Nope. It sounds like what you want is a mommy or daddy therapist to swoop in and tell your partner what a bad boy he is. That is not going to happen. You two are the adults in the relationship. Your job is to communicate with each other about how you feel and what you need, and to consider for yourself what your options are. The therapist's job is to help you do that better, not to take sides. You can try as many therapists as you want but none of them are going to adult for you.


Listen, I’m not the OP but if your therapist can’t support you, there’s no trust and no point in sticking with him or her. There are ways to be supported and still allow for discussion to occur. Her being validated doesn’t mean that the therapist calls the husband a bad boy. It’s a false equivalency.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 10:36     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can't do therapy until all parties stipulate that the affair was wrong.

Am I nuts?


Nope. Find a new therapist.


+100. Seriously dump this therapist. This person isn’t the right one. He isn’t listening to you at all and so not a good therapist. Why accept a subpar solution?


Nope. It sounds like what you want is a mommy or daddy therapist to swoop in and tell your partner what a bad boy he is. That is not going to happen. You two are the adults in the relationship. Your job is to communicate with each other about how you feel and what you need, and to consider for yourself what your options are. The therapist's job is to help you do that better, not to take sides. You can try as many therapists as you want but none of them are going to adult for you.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 09:20     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist.

I know of zero couples therapists who will work with a couple where one partner is actively physically or sexually abusing the other. Emotional abuse is treated differently because while it is a terrible way to treat another person and very damaging in many ways, as a PP said, there are fewer actual safety risks and it is not actually a crime. Most of the people I know who work with couples see a lot of infidelity. Couples therapy demands that both partners be committed to the process of reconciling/improving the relationship/however it is defined. If one person is still actively cheating, they are demonstrably not committed in that way and it is difficult to counsel _the couple_ on how to move forward. The one time this has happened in my practice, I terminated the relationship with both partners, explaining very clearly that active infidelity, to me, is as counter to the couples therapy process as active physical abuse. I then referred them both for individual therapy with people I knew who had openings and let them know that had openings and also let them know that if partner 1 ended the affair and wanted to recommit to therapy with partner 2, I would be happy to see them again. They came back about 6 months later but ended up divorcing anyway.


So the question to you is what would you do where one spouse isn’t actually apologizing or feeling regretful of cheating? Would you do what OP’s therapist did?


I am also a therapist but not the one who answered originally. I concur with her/his statement.

I would not give an opinion on whether cheating is wrong, we truly are not there to pass judgement. Also it would alienate the other party, you can't feel alienated and be open to therapy. But I would be direct and tell the couple that the chances counseling will be successful is pretty much zero if the cheater isn't remorseful and willing to do anything and everything to save the marriage. The first move has to come from the person who strayed. I would be reluctantant to work with them for this reason.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 09:20     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist.

I know of zero couples therapists who will work with a couple where one partner is actively physically or sexually abusing the other. Emotional abuse is treated differently because while it is a terrible way to treat another person and very damaging in many ways, as a PP said, there are fewer actual safety risks and it is not actually a crime. Most of the people I know who work with couples see a lot of infidelity. Couples therapy demands that both partners be committed to the process of reconciling/improving the relationship/however it is defined. If one person is still actively cheating, they are demonstrably not committed in that way and it is difficult to counsel _the couple_ on how to move forward. The one time this has happened in my practice, I terminated the relationship with both partners, explaining very clearly that active infidelity, to me, is as counter to the couples therapy process as active physical abuse. I then referred them both for individual therapy with people I knew who had openings and let them know that had openings and also let them know that if partner 1 ended the affair and wanted to recommit to therapy with partner 2, I would be happy to see them again. They came back about 6 months later but ended up divorcing anyway.


So the question to you is what would you do where one spouse isn’t actually apologizing or feeling regretful of cheating? Would you do what OP’s therapist did?


This is why I asked earlier why on earth OP is in counseling.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 09:01     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
What the hell is the point of seeing a therapist if they wont identify the problem?

Are you supposed to see a therapist so they can convince you that your cheating spouse didnt really that bad of a person?

Am I to spend $150 an hour to let them off the hook?

F that.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 08:59     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
I wouldn't be in therapy with someone who didn't apologize first.

I wouldn't expect judgment from the therapist, though.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 08:35     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Maybe get a individual therapist to talk over your problems with the couples therapist.

Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 08:32     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
I just posted above. I think your therapist should at least point out that lying, either outright or by omission, is very damaging to a relationship.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 08:30     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. My partner had an affair. I only discovered because I saw their texts. We decided to try counseling. Partner has yet to apologize or admit they were wrong.

On first visit, the therapist said they were not in a position to make judgement on whether the affair was wrong.

I need there to be an admission and recognition of wrongdoing in order to proceed toward forgiveness.

I was raised that you apologize when you're wrong.



You may ultimately get that apology from your husband (more likely you will not), but your therapist is right and if a condition for your active participation in therapy is for the therapist to take your side, therapy isn't going to work for you.




Well, I’m not a therapist, but I can tell you for certain your partner screwed you over and won’t apologize. Hasten thee to divorce court. What’s a therapist going to do?


If you want to save the marriage, it would be a good idea to give your husband a little time to come around. My husband had an emotional affair (he fell in love with another woman although he claims it didn't get physical, I'll never know for sure). We were married for 30 years at the time. We went to therapy and he continually claimed that they were just friends, there was nothing wrong with it etc. He told me a lot of lies over about 5 years and this is what I concentrated on getting him to see how damaging this was to our relationship. I also told him it was either her or me, he couldn't have both. It took a good 6 months but eventually he saw the error of his ways and completely changed his behavior. It's almost 8 years ago now and he still has trouble talking about it because he feels so guilty. I wish he could talk about it more but we are working on that.
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 08:10     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.

OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.

But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.


I think this is a really damaging point of view. It assumes that "if he/she had a perfect relationship, he/she wouldn't cheat", and it shifts the burden to the aggrieved party to deliver a perfect relationship - as if a relationship is a consumer product you can perfect and deliver.

I have very liberal views on cheating. I think sexual fidelity is overrated and that many marriages have survived it. But I think that there is no such thing as "discovering why he did what he did". People do what they do, and you do not belong inside their head figuring out their reasons (as if that is even possible). Worry about your own self.

Has your spouse cheated on you? Has your spouse concealed a long-term affair from you?


Yes and yes!
Anonymous
Post 02/20/2020 07:06     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-

Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.

You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?

What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.



THIS! Everyone should read these wise words. Excellent post.

Yes, and the most important, IMO, is complete access to "the books."


Although, TBH, you can do all that, and still feel no remorse. Very easily.


Yes, liars gonna lie.

That’s true, but if a spouse won’t even attempt these things, then you have a very clear picture of where things stand. It makes it easier to pull the trigger on divorce.



My exDW was very good at appearing to be an open book. But I learned that even that was a lie. Unfortunately at the end of day you have to acknowledge some relationships are irreparable and move on. Or be willing to live with ambiguity.


Anonymous
Post 02/19/2020 23:15     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. My partner had an affair. I only discovered because I saw their texts. We decided to try counseling. Partner has yet to apologize or admit they were wrong.

On first visit, the therapist said they were not in a position to make judgement on whether the affair was wrong.

I need there to be an admission and recognition of wrongdoing in order to proceed toward forgiveness.

I was raised that you apologize when you're wrong.



You may ultimately get that apology from your husband (more likely you will not), but your therapist is right and if a condition for your active participation in therapy is for the therapist to take your side, therapy isn't going to work for you.




Well, I’m not a therapist, but I can tell you for certain your partner screwed you over and won’t apologize. Hasten thee to divorce court. What’s a therapist going to do?
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2020 21:15     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist.

I know of zero couples therapists who will work with a couple where one partner is actively physically or sexually abusing the other. Emotional abuse is treated differently because while it is a terrible way to treat another person and very damaging in many ways, as a PP said, there are fewer actual safety risks and it is not actually a crime. Most of the people I know who work with couples see a lot of infidelity. Couples therapy demands that both partners be committed to the process of reconciling/improving the relationship/however it is defined. If one person is still actively cheating, they are demonstrably not committed in that way and it is difficult to counsel _the couple_ on how to move forward. The one time this has happened in my practice, I terminated the relationship with both partners, explaining very clearly that active infidelity, to me, is as counter to the couples therapy process as active physical abuse. I then referred them both for individual therapy with people I knew who had openings and let them know that had openings and also let them know that if partner 1 ended the affair and wanted to recommit to therapy with partner 2, I would be happy to see them again. They came back about 6 months later but ended up divorcing anyway.


So the question to you is what would you do where one spouse isn’t actually apologizing or feeling regretful of cheating? Would you do what OP’s therapist did?
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2020 20:15     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
I am a therapist.

I know of zero couples therapists who will work with a couple where one partner is actively physically or sexually abusing the other. Emotional abuse is treated differently because while it is a terrible way to treat another person and very damaging in many ways, as a PP said, there are fewer actual safety risks and it is not actually a crime. Most of the people I know who work with couples see a lot of infidelity. Couples therapy demands that both partners be committed to the process of reconciling/improving the relationship/however it is defined. If one person is still actively cheating, they are demonstrably not committed in that way and it is difficult to counsel _the couple_ on how to move forward. The one time this has happened in my practice, I terminated the relationship with both partners, explaining very clearly that active infidelity, to me, is as counter to the couples therapy process as active physical abuse. I then referred them both for individual therapy with people I knew who had openings and let them know that had openings and also let them know that if partner 1 ended the affair and wanted to recommit to therapy with partner 2, I would be happy to see them again. They came back about 6 months later but ended up divorcing anyway.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2020 19:58     Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.

OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.

But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.


I think this is a really damaging point of view. It assumes that "if he/she had a perfect relationship, he/she wouldn't cheat", and it shifts the burden to the aggrieved party to deliver a perfect relationship - as if a relationship is a consumer product you can perfect and deliver.

I have very liberal views on cheating. I think sexual fidelity is overrated and that many marriages have survived it. But I think that there is no such thing as "discovering why he did what he did". People do what they do, and you do not belong inside their head figuring out their reasons (as if that is even possible). Worry about your own self.

Has your spouse cheated on you? Has your spouse concealed a long-term affair from you?