Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 12:57     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And that's the way it needs to stay until our country splits into regions, and a massive resettlement of people occurs.

Because otherwise, if that doesn't happen, it's going to a Rwanda-style airing of grievances. So let's hope we split apart before that.


We are Yugoslavia in 1991. Everything stopped working.



So. Much. This.

And we know what happened in Yugoslavia a few years afterwards.

Well, I know, because I was deployed there for two tours. But I suspect much of DCUM doesn't. They should educate themselves, and see what an actual civil war looks like in a modern Europen country. Sarajevo was as cosmopolitan a city as Boston or Portland or Denver before the war.

People who think the same exact thing won't/can't happen here are whistling past the graveyard of history.


Agreed.

There is so much in this country that has simply 'stopped working'. We see it on all levels - local/state/federal.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 10:47     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been traveling to the Midwest for years to visit family. The divide happened a long time ago. Before Obama was elected. I put the blame on right wing radio and entertainment outlets like Fox News, Breitbart, Glenn Beck, and Alex Jones. The entertainment they push is anger and outrage, bigotry and sexism. I watched my dad get sucked into that world but he died in 2013. Folks are reeling in this country due to huge economic shifts that are occurring in economic/labor market, much like the industrial revolution. If you think back to that time in history and the profound changes that occurred, it makes sense.

The only thing that is going to change is the younger generations will be able to cope more with the new economic/labor environment and the ones in the thick of the change will die off.

I live in the Midwest and have lost my father to Fox.

It’s not a both sides issue, not a bit. OP doesn’t say “both sides” but she implies it.

How do we get past this? Naming the real problem, for one thing: Republican extremism and all that feeds into it. Sadly, it is a multi-factorial problem, but the big one is right wing propaganda. But we have to see the problem for what it is because you can’t solve a problem when you won’t identify what the problem is.


My dad too. He was always a conservative guy but never talked about Politics or seemed angry. My parents always told me it was rude to talk politics- when I was growing up. He retired early (blue collar union job). and has basically spent the last 20yrs sitting on the couch watching Fox and getting angrier by the day. Spread it to my mom too. There are millions of men like this. Why??? I really do not know.


I have an AA girlfriend who married a white conservative. She had a strong circle of HBCU friends, but after a few years of marriage began an angry path of spouting conservative talking points about hate. It was unbelievable. It was scary to watch. So it’s not just men that can fall victim. Maybe it’s people feeling like they need a sense of belonging, and that is the easiest place to fit? I don’t know. It’s a great question.


So just because she doesn’t agree with your own views, she’s wrong and you’re right? Maybe she’s right and you’re wrong. How very patronizing you are!
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 09:40     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And that's the way it needs to stay until our country splits into regions, and a massive resettlement of people occurs.

Because otherwise, if that doesn't happen, it's going to a Rwanda-style airing of grievances. So let's hope we split apart before that.


We are Yugoslavia in 1991. Everything stopped working.



So. Much. This.

And we know what happened in Yugoslavia a few years afterwards.

Well, I know, because I was deployed there for two tours. But I suspect much of DCUM doesn't. They should educate themselves, and see what an actual civil war looks like in a modern Europen country. Sarajevo was as cosmopolitan a city as Boston or Portland or Denver before the war.

People who think the same exact thing won't/can't happen here are whistling past the graveyard of history.

I do think such a thing can happen here. I think the intersection of politics and social media has made it far more likely to happen here.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 09:39     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And that's the way it needs to stay until our country splits into regions, and a massive resettlement of people occurs.

Because otherwise, if that doesn't happen, it's going to a Rwanda-style airing of grievances. So let's hope we split apart before that.


We are Yugoslavia in 1991. Everything stopped working.



So. Much. This.

And we know what happened in Yugoslavia a few years afterwards.

Well, I know, because I was deployed there for two tours. But I suspect much of DCUM doesn't. They should educate themselves, and see what an actual civil war looks like in a modern Europen country. Sarajevo was as cosmopolitan a city as Boston or Portland or Denver before the war.

People who think the same exact thing won't/can't happen here are whistling past the graveyard of history.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 09:25     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Massive demographic change doesn't result in unity. Unfortunately it only increases conflict among groups. Thats the lesson from history.

The only thing that might unite people is an external threat.


I’ll add that it’s a RAPID massive demographic change that leads to problem.

If the change occurs more slowly, it can have a different result, IMO.

Great Britain had slow demographic change over centuries, brought on in no small part due to its own colonialism. Leavers skillfully exploited it to create Brexit. So in that case, at least, slow change didn’t have a different result.

Putin and Assad create conditions that drive emigration to western democracies, creating rapid demographic change to destabilize those democracies. The roots are in racism and colonialism. I don’t know how we solve that.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 07:42     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:Massive demographic change doesn't result in unity. Unfortunately it only increases conflict among groups. Thats the lesson from history.

The only thing that might unite people is an external threat.


I’ll add that it’s a RAPID massive demographic change that leads to problem.

If the change occurs more slowly, it can have a different result, IMO.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2020 06:58     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And that's the way it needs to stay until our country splits into regions, and a massive resettlement of people occurs.

Because otherwise, if that doesn't happen, it's going to a Rwanda-style airing of grievances. So let's hope we split apart before that.


We are Yugoslavia in 1991. Everything stopped working.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 16:36     Subject: Re:What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ship all Trumpists to Texas.


No, Texas is on the verge of turning purple. Don't wreck its trajectory.


Alabama.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 16:36     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the thing that would "bring the country together" is to see a bunch of corrupt rich guys in handcuffs.

People are still pissed that no one was held accountable for the Financial Crisis. A lot the frustration we see voters expressing at the ballot box is that cost of living has gone up, medical care/insurance just isn't affordable, and we keep seeing wealthy assholes game the system in unfair ways.



That's an appealing story that I used to believe. Then a bunch of the people supposedly pissed at rich people who break the rules without consequences voted for Trump and support him whole-heartedly. So, now, I'm understandably skeptical of that narrative. It's like back when Tea Party people said they were just really concerned about fiscal responsibility and now nobody gives a shit about deficits.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 16:26     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:Massive demographic change doesn't result in unity. Unfortunately it only increases conflict among groups. Thats the lesson from history.

The only thing that might unite people is an external threat.

That’s the danger, isn’t it.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 16:18     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Massive demographic change doesn't result in unity. Unfortunately it only increases conflict among groups. Thats the lesson from history.

The only thing that might unite people is an external threat.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 15:39     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And that's the way it needs to stay until our country splits into regions, and a massive resettlement of people occurs.

Because otherwise, if that doesn't happen, it's going to a Rwanda-style airing of grievances. So let's hope we split apart before that.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 14:54     Subject: What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Serious question. I am so exhausted by the vitriol. Are we going to get past this time in our country? If so, what gets us there? If not, how long can we survive like this?


You don't just shit on people for decades and then decide to bring them together when it's no longer convenient for you.

In this model, who was shitting on whom?
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 14:48     Subject: Re:What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Don't watch CNN or Fox. Read/Listen to news facts not opinions. Come up with your own opinions. Vote. Accept outcome and move on.


I agree that both are trash, but for different reasons. There is no left wing equivalent to Fox. MSNBC tries, but it's a pale shadow. It has a former Republican Congressman on for like 15 hours a week. When Fox gives a former Democratic Congressman that much airtime, we'll talk. CNN's big bias - and MSNBC too, for that matter - is that it wants to keep you emotionally invested enough to watch through the commercials. The easiest way to do that is to make you anxious or angry. So, they give you the bad news. They fill airtime with cheap to produce shows with people voicing opinions at each other. Ca I ble news is hot garbage.


This is 100% accurate.


MSNBC has become a rehab center for #NeverTrump Bush supporters. If the “Democratic” network is Joe Scarborough talking to Nicole Wallace, Bill Kristol and Michael Steele about who the Democrats should nominate I’d rather watch Fox News. At least Fox News is honest about their agenda. MSNBC is centrist Republican neo-con propaganda masquerading as the left’s answer to Fox News. The left’s answer to Fox News is actually Krystal Ball, Michael Moore and Jacobin.

You mean the socialist left’s answer to Fox News is Jacobin et al. And you label anything that is not socialist or does not explicitly support Sanders as “centrist Republican neo-con propaganda.” So i think you actually need to be honest about your agenda.


Look at the polls. Sanders and Warren’s supporters make up a large demographic of the party yet there is no network that reflects their worldview. All I see on MSNBC are former Bushies like Jennifer Rubin and Nicole Wallace telling Democrats who they should elect. MSNBC is more welcoming of Bill Kristol than Sanders, AOC, etc. That should tell you something. They are the network of neo-conservatives and neo-liberals. The last person on that network who truly represented workers was Ed Shultz.

Sanders are Warren have very different worldviews. As Franklin Foer writes, “They diverge on fundamental questions about the role of the state, the contours of the market, and the underlying goals of political life.” I don’t think it’s accurate to lump them together in this context.

Ed Schultz works for RT now. It seems like you are lost in some World War II era or 1950s depiction of who represents “workers.” You are doing Bernie no favors with that.



Anyone who is interested in their differences should read Foer’s piece in The Atlantic.
Anonymous
Post 02/07/2020 14:39     Subject: Re:What can bring the country together?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Don't watch CNN or Fox. Read/Listen to news facts not opinions. Come up with your own opinions. Vote. Accept outcome and move on.


I agree that both are trash, but for different reasons. There is no left wing equivalent to Fox. MSNBC tries, but it's a pale shadow. It has a former Republican Congressman on for like 15 hours a week. When Fox gives a former Democratic Congressman that much airtime, we'll talk. CNN's big bias - and MSNBC too, for that matter - is that it wants to keep you emotionally invested enough to watch through the commercials. The easiest way to do that is to make you anxious or angry. So, they give you the bad news. They fill airtime with cheap to produce shows with people voicing opinions at each other. Ca I ble news is hot garbage.


This is 100% accurate.


MSNBC has become a rehab center for #NeverTrump Bush supporters. If the “Democratic” network is Joe Scarborough talking to Nicole Wallace, Bill Kristol and Michael Steele about who the Democrats should nominate I’d rather watch Fox News. At least Fox News is honest about their agenda. MSNBC is centrist Republican neo-con propaganda masquerading as the left’s answer to Fox News. The left’s answer to Fox News is actually Krystal Ball, Michael Moore and Jacobin.

You mean the socialist left’s answer to Fox News is Jacobin et al. And you label anything that is not socialist or does not explicitly support Sanders as “centrist Republican neo-con propaganda.” So i think you actually need to be honest about your agenda.


Look at the polls. Sanders and Warren’s supporters make up a large demographic of the party yet there is no network that reflects their worldview. All I see on MSNBC are former Bushies like Jennifer Rubin and Nicole Wallace telling Democrats who they should elect. MSNBC is more welcoming of Bill Kristol than Sanders, AOC, etc. That should tell you something. They are the network of neo-conservatives and neo-liberals. The last person on that network who truly represented workers was Ed Shultz.


The Sanders demographic is online - Young Turks is huge with that crowd. Cable news is for the olds.

You're seriously shocked that there isn't major news network focused on an audience who can't afford stuff? The whole point of cable news is to sell advertising. The old people have all the money. And those people are not supporting Sanders.

The Warren demographic is much more interested in her as a competent woman leader than her leftist ideologue bona fides. Polling already shows that most Warren supporters will go anywhere but Bernie if she drops out of the race. Warren is still a market-driven capitalist at heart. You forget that she is a bankruptcy law professor.