Anonymous wrote:Are the most popular sororities all white? That is depressing in this day and age. Blacks have their own sororities and fraternities? Seems like the process is encouraging segregation.

I'm sure it's hard for a white person to understand black students needing and wanting some organizations where they can be surrounded by people who look like them, who understand what it's like to be a black student at a PWI, and who can help them navigate colleges that have long histories of ignoring or marginalizing them. Students who understand how hurtful it is when white students say they're only there to add to diversity or to perform on a certain team.

If a student doesn't feel they need this support system, they don't try out. They do other things.

The Divine Nine network is INCREDIBLE and follows you for life. It's not depressing, it's amazing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pan-Hellenic_Council

Anonymous wrote:Are the most popular sororities all white? That is depressing in this day and age. Blacks have their own sororities and fraternities? Seems like the process is encouraging segregation.

Yes. My AA daughter has told me that UVA is her first choice. I knew that there were some racial issues there, but I don't like the sound of this self-segregation, at all. I understand that it is mostly the AA girls who are perpetuating it, but I'm going to be nudging her a different direction!

My 45 year old self could hand this kind of process with aplomb, but I'm not so sure about my 18 year old self. Moving out on your own is hard enough. (And being 18 is hard enough.) That adding this social judgment just seems cruel.

Are the most popular sororities all white? That is depressing in this day and age. Blacks have their own sororities and fraternities? Seems like the process is encouraging segregation.

And if formal recruitment isn’t your jam, you can usually join through informal recruitment in the off-semester - which I guess would be fall semester at UVA, but was spring semester where I went to college because we did formal recruitment in the fall. The sororities who didn’t get their new member quota through formal recruitment would advertise in the school newspaper (back in the day) and would get a few new members that way.

One more time: if you stay in the process, you are guaranteed a spot in a sorority.

This is all computer run now.

The scenario where you won’t get a bid:
-you suicide (only list one house in the matching program as a preference when you were supposed to list more)
-you drop out

This is how it works TODAY. Your experiences 5, 10, or 20 years ago are not relevant, but I’m not sure some of you care that things have changed. Get over it.

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Anonymous wrote:What if you don't get invited to join any sorority? Then you'd feel like the biggest loser. Why are they so exclusive? So that they can feel superior?

Far more students go through rush than there are openings. And yes, if you go through to the end and get no bids, it is pretty awful. DD1 specifically chose a school with no Greek life, but that doesn’t seem to be DD2’s plan. Dreading it.

This is not true any longer. Any young woman who completes the recruitment process is guaranteed a spot. No one goes bidless. They may not get the bid they want, but every potential new member will be given a bid. (The only school where this is not true is Indiana. They are special snowflakes.)

+1 How many times has this been explained since the first page?

I think some people have baggage from their college days and can't let it go. Times have changed. If you can't get over parts of your college experience, talk to a professional to process it and don't burden your kids with this outdated information.

That may be the case at UVA, but it is not true at all schools. At my daughter’s college, they post the data after rush each year. Last year 7 girls didn’t get bids. The previous year, it was 17.

Can you read? I said "any young woman who COMPLETES the recruitment process." Potential new members are dropped for a variety of reasons, but to get dropped by every group, you have to have 1) bad grades or 2)bad morals or 3) a mean, mean personality. If you're not dumb or a total slut or a total bitch, you will be fine. Ordinary potential new members will get a bid.

You are really not making a great case for sororities here.

1. You have a “mean, mean personality” So does that mean you got dropped?

2. You’re wrong. Girls get dropped because they’re quiet, or because they’re not dressed “right” or because they don’t know the right people. You are naive to assume that every campus is just like the one you attended. There are plenty that have many more PNMs than available slots.

3. You don’t make any sense. How can a girl complete the process if she is dismissed from the process against her own wishes?
The sorority jargon makes everything sound fair and absolutely pleasant and it’s just not. It’s a dirty and judgmental process. There’s no way around it.

I’ve heard from many friends that were in sororities that there’s a lot of pre-selecting the girls they want ahead of time anyway. The girls study up on social media and lobby for or against prospects they know from high school or their debutante class or cotillion and they plan out who the targets are and line up their “best” girls to talk to those girls and so forth. Like very orchestrated.

Not sure if this makes it better or worse. I guess it’s less arbitrary. But also misleading to prospects and discriminates by socio economics etc

Anonymous wrote:This sounds hideous. Like every girl’s worst nightmare. I can’t imagine going through it or encouraging my daughter (or son) to do so.

Sorry you're such a snowflake, ha ha. Seriously, I probably wouldn't have done it either, but I didn't "encourage" either of my girls who did rush to do so. It's their lives. They didn't ask. And they both survived the process and did just fine!

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Anonymous wrote:What if you don't get invited to join any sorority? Then you'd feel like the biggest loser. Why are they so exclusive? So that they can feel superior?

Far more students go through rush than there are openings. And yes, if you go through to the end and get no bids, it is pretty awful. DD1 specifically chose a school with no Greek life, but that doesn’t seem to be DD2’s plan. Dreading it.

This is not true any longer. Any young woman who completes the recruitment process is guaranteed a spot. No one goes bidless. They may not get the bid they want, but every potential new member will be given a bid. (The only school where this is not true is Indiana. They are special snowflakes.)

+1 How many times has this been explained since the first page?

I think some people have baggage from their college days and can't let it go. Times have changed. If you can't get over parts of your college experience, talk to a professional to process it and don't burden your kids with this outdated information.

That may be the case at UVA, but it is not true at all schools. At my daughter’s college, they post the data after rush each year. Last year 7 girls didn’t get bids. The previous year, it was 17.

Can you read? I said "any young woman who COMPLETES the recruitment process." Potential new members are dropped for a variety of reasons, but to get dropped by every group, you have to have 1) bad grades or 2)bad morals or 3) a mean, mean personality. If you're not dumb or a total slut or a total bitch, you will be fine. Ordinary potential new members will get a bid.

You are really not making a great case for sororities here.

1. You have a “mean, mean personality” So does that mean you got dropped?

2. You’re wrong. Girls get dropped because they’re quiet, or because they’re not dressed “right” or because they don’t know the right people. You are naive to assume that every campus is just like the one you attended. There are plenty that have many more PNMs than available slots.

3. You don’t make any sense. How can a girl complete the process if she is dismissed from the process against her own wishes?
The sorority jargon makes everything sound fair and absolutely pleasant and it’s just not. It’s a dirty and judgmental process. There’s no way around it.

NP here and I seem to remember someone explaining to me that it’s not dropping but ranking that occurs. So a girl gets invited back to 3 houses for example and she ranks them in order of how she likes them. Then the sorority ranks the girls in the order they like them. Then computer does matching based on the ranks so in that way it would be extremely unlikely there would not be a match for a least one sorrority

Anonymous wrote:My 1980s memories: either I got dropped, or I got so stoned I forgot to attend some parties. I think I am repressing something.

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Anonymous wrote:What if you don't get invited to join any sorority? Then you'd feel like the biggest loser. Why are they so exclusive? So that they can feel superior?

Far more students go through rush than there are openings. And yes, if you go through to the end and get no bids, it is pretty awful. DD1 specifically chose a school with no Greek life, but that doesn’t seem to be DD2’s plan. Dreading it.

This is not true any longer. Any young woman who completes the recruitment process is guaranteed a spot. No one goes bidless. They may not get the bid they want, but every potential new member will be given a bid. (The only school where this is not true is Indiana. They are special snowflakes.)

+1 How many times has this been explained since the first page?

I think some people have baggage from their college days and can't let it go. Times have changed. If you can't get over parts of your college experience, talk to a professional to process it and don't burden your kids with this outdated information.

That may be the case at UVA, but it is not true at all schools. At my daughter’s college, they post the data after rush each year. Last year 7 girls didn’t get bids. The previous year, it was 17.

Can you read? I said "any young woman who COMPLETES the recruitment process." Potential new members are dropped for a variety of reasons, but to get dropped by every group, you have to have 1) bad grades or 2)bad morals or 3) a mean, mean personality. If you're not dumb or a total slut or a total bitch, you will be fine. Ordinary potential new members will get a bid.

You are really not making a great case for sororities here.

1. You have a “mean, mean personality” So does that mean you got dropped?

2. You’re wrong. Girls get dropped because they’re quiet, or because they’re not dressed “right” or because they don’t know the right people. You are naive to assume that every campus is just like the one you attended. There are plenty that have many more PNMs than available slots.

3. You don’t make any sense. How can a girl complete the process if she is dismissed from the process against her own wishes?
The sorority jargon makes everything sound fair and absolutely pleasant and it’s just not. It’s a dirty and judgmental process. There’s no way around it.

+100
Certainly, the experiences detailed on this thread back that up. Sounds like torture by mean girl, plain and simple.

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Anonymous wrote:What if you don't get invited to join any sorority? Then you'd feel like the biggest loser. Why are they so exclusive? So that they can feel superior?

Far more students go through rush than there are openings. And yes, if you go through to the end and get no bids, it is pretty awful. DD1 specifically chose a school with no Greek life, but that doesn’t seem to be DD2’s plan. Dreading it.

This is not true any longer. Any young woman who completes the recruitment process is guaranteed a spot. No one goes bidless. They may not get the bid they want, but every potential new member will be given a bid. (The only school where this is not true is Indiana. They are special snowflakes.)

+1 How many times has this been explained since the first page?

I think some people have baggage from their college days and can't let it go. Times have changed. If you can't get over parts of your college experience, talk to a professional to process it and don't burden your kids with this outdated information.

That may be the case at UVA, but it is not true at all schools. At my daughter’s college, they post the data after rush each year. Last year 7 girls didn’t get bids. The previous year, it was 17.

Can you read? I said "any young woman who COMPLETES the recruitment process." Potential new members are dropped for a variety of reasons, but to get dropped by every group, you have to have 1) bad grades or 2)bad morals or 3) a mean, mean personality. If you're not dumb or a total slut or a total bitch, you will be fine. Ordinary potential new members will get a bid.

You are really not making a great case for sororities here.

1. You have a “mean, mean personality” So does that mean you got dropped?

2. You’re wrong. Girls get dropped because they’re quiet, or because they’re not dressed “right” or because they don’t know the right people. You are naive to assume that every campus is just like the one you attended. There are plenty that have many more PNMs than available slots.

3. You don’t make any sense. How can a girl complete the process if she is dismissed from the process against her own wishes?
The sorority jargon makes everything sound fair and absolutely pleasant and it’s just not. It’s a dirty and judgmental process. There’s no way around it.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:What if you don't get invited to join any sorority? Then you'd feel like the biggest loser. Why are they so exclusive? So that they can feel superior?

Far more students go through rush than there are openings. And yes, if you go through to the end and get no bids, it is pretty awful. DD1 specifically chose a school with no Greek life, but that doesn’t seem to be DD2’s plan. Dreading it.

This is not true any longer. Any young woman who completes the recruitment process is guaranteed a spot. No one goes bidless. They may not get the bid they want, but every potential new member will be given a bid. (The only school where this is not true is Indiana. They are special snowflakes.)

+1 How many times has this been explained since the first page?

I think some people have baggage from their college days and can't let it go. Times have changed. If you can't get over parts of your college experience, talk to a professional to process it and don't burden your kids with this outdated information.

That may be the case at UVA, but it is not true at all schools. At my daughter’s college, they post the data after rush each year. Last year 7 girls didn’t get bids. The previous year, it was 17.

Can you read? I said "any young woman who COMPLETES the recruitment process." Potential new members are dropped for a variety of reasons, but to get dropped by every group, you have to have 1) bad grades or 2)bad morals or 3) a mean, mean personality. If you're not dumb or a total slut or a total bitch, you will be fine. Ordinary potential new members will get a bid.

You are really not making a great case for sororities here.

This sounds hideous. Like every girl’s worst nightmare. I can’t imagine going through it or encouraging my daughter (or son) to do so.

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, most schools guarantee a spot to any girl who completes formal recruitment and follows all the rules (no skipping parties/events, no “suiciding,” etc.) BUT not all schools have this guarantee.

The sororities want new members. That’s how they make money, and the houses have to have a certain number of active members to remain on campus. I guess I could imagine a situation where hundreds more PNM’s go through formal recruitment than the college was expecting and they have to cut some people as a result?

The way it's supposed to work these days, and note my use of "supposed," is that the school adjusts quota (the number of new members a house can pledge) to the number of women wanting to join.

Say there are 10 houses and 1000 women are expected to go through recruitment. Quota will be 100.

After the first round, 100 women who don't like their options drop out. Quota is 90.

This ensures that everyone who completes the process and maximizes their options in each round gets a bid.

Some bidless scenarios:

Sally Smith gets invited back to 3 of 10 houses after the first round. She likes 2 and "doesn't feel a connection" with 1. She writes down 2. She doesn't maximize and she ends up dropped.

Jenny Jones goes to 2 houses for preference (last round). She doesn't like one, so she writes down the name of a totally different house. She is not on a bid list and gets dropped.

Laurie Lane forgets to get her absence at two of her round 3 parties excused. Those sororities automatically release her and she's not asked back to the other two houses. She's dropped. I feel like this is harsh, but I guess it's a life lesson?

When I went through in the days of the dinosaurs, there were plenty of girls who got dropped. They didn't want to be in the "lower-tier" houses and rolled the dice for "elite" houses. They were crushed when they got dropped second round, third round, or pref round. Zero sympathy. There were cool people and awful people in every house, in more or less the same proportion.