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Anonymous wrote:Would they jerk around the same set of youth players a second time within 5 years? As messed up an organization as US Soccer is, I have a hard time seeing this happening. DA and ODP were on birth year previously - have to expect that is set and would not change. So why make a change to re-create two sets of birth date cutoffs.

My son was on the "losing end" of the change 4 years back and there is no way we would want it changed back and go through all the restacking and regrouping again. This completely destroys teams at smaller clubs and at older age groups. One of the fun parts of this is being part of a team and competing as a team - not wandering around like a nomad as US Soccer jerks you around every few years.

We’d take it back. My kid loved his former team, which for the most part, is still together. The older age group team has zero chemistry with several prima donnas. He was one of 2 kids that had to jump up an age group. The rest were the same birth year.

Plus, he’s an 8th grader on a team with mostly HS kids that will graduate a year before him and spring season is a mess w/ many playing HS.

Lol What makes you think you’d get your old team back?

Anonymous wrote:I never really get all the "grade year" arguments. We did not have a "grade year" cutoff in soccer before. August 1st was not grade year - it is two months off of the Virginia school cutoff date. So in Virginia soccer we went from 2 months off the school cutoff with Aug 1st to 3 months off the cutoff with birth year. But this 5 month move completely changed who received the relative age advantage which I think is the root of all these discussions not "grade year".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would they jerk around the same set of youth players a second time within 5 years? As messed up an organization as US Soccer is, I have a hard time seeing this happening. DA and ODP were on birth year previously - have to expect that is set and would not change. So why make a change to re-create two sets of birth date cutoffs.

My son was on the "losing end" of the change 4 years back and there is no way we would want it changed back and go through all the restacking and regrouping again. This completely destroys teams at smaller clubs and at older age groups. One of the fun parts of this is being part of a team and competing as a team - not wandering around like a nomad as US Soccer jerks you around every few years.

We’d take it back. My kid loved his former team, which for the most part, is still together. The older age group team has zero chemistry with several prima donnas. He was one of 2 kids that had to jump up an age group. The rest were the same birth year.

Plus, he’s an 8th grader on a team with mostly HS kids that will graduate a year before him and spring season is a mess w/ many playing HS.

Anonymous wrote:Would they jerk around the same set of youth players a second time within 5 years? As messed up an organization as US Soccer is, I have a hard time seeing this happening. DA and ODP were on birth year previously - have to expect that is set and would not change. So why make a change to re-create two sets of birth date cutoffs.

My son was on the "losing end" of the change 4 years back and there is no way we would want it changed back and go through all the restacking and regrouping again. This completely destroys teams at smaller clubs and at older age groups. One of the fun parts of this is being part of a team and competing as a team - not wandering around like a nomad as US Soccer jerks you around every few years.

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I think there are some clubs that still do grade year rec eventhough their travel follows birth year.

None that I am aware of in this area.

SYA does school grade on the rec side and birth year on the travel side.

And Stoddert
And MSI
And Arlington
And Alexandria (some)
and many others.

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Anonymous wrote:I really hope they do switch back to the age groupings aligning with school year. This current system of birth year is not pretty when they are in HS and have a fall birthday. My daughter's team is mostly a grade ahead, she will be playing with a completely different team her senior year as the rest of the team will have graduated.

Translation, my kid is a September born kid.

I love people who throw this out there as though parents of kids with fall birth dates are looking for an advantage. I'm not the PP, but my daughter is a late October birthday. She plays ECNL at a top club and has totally benefited from playing with "older" players the past few years. That being said, it sucks for these kids when they are in 8th grade and there is no fall club season (our state plays HS in the fall) because the majority of their teammates are playing HS. Moving to grad year lets every kid have a team to play on every year. What is the negative? And if your kid is good enough for YNT camp invites, changing to grad year won't hurt them--they are already known.

Aww poor 8th grade.

Blame HS soccer. The passion to play crappy HS soccer is your problem not the age cutoff.

Facts. HS soccer is dead weight for top players.

Tell that to some of the GDA YNT players that still play HS. Doesn't seem to be hurting their standing with US Soccer.... Leading scorer in U18/19 GDA last year played HS.

Wrong again. 95% of YNT players are coming from the DA. The U16 team is entirely DA. US Soccer will continue to phase out those types of players. Every year, they select less and less. This is no accident either.

You clearly did not read the comment... There are YNT players that are playing in GDA but are on waivers every season to allow them to play HS. They are not phasing those kids out. The leading scorer from last year in GDA (18/19) is from NEFC. She plays HS soccer in the fall and has every year. She was called in to the U20's in December. She's not being phased out.

What I didn't add is what I said after that. It starts with phasing out the ECNL. Then they go for the part timers. And nobody is talking about U20s. Legacy YNT players that came up through the ECNL are what was the top at the time. They will do it through the younger age groups.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. The kids that are top players will continue to receive waivers. This does not apply to players 6-20 on a GDA roster. Those kids are not getting a look for YNT camps anyway. South Shore Select has a U16 player that plays up 2 years on the U18 YNT--some would argue that the club is in GDA because of this player. She plays HS and will continue to receive a waiver for as long as she wants. And US Soccer will continue to call her in. The top players can do whatever they want.

It doesn't apply to the top 1-2 players. On that I agree. It will apply to everyone else, which is the vast majority. If you are Tobin Heath outstanding, then you are in. But even in YNT players, those are few and very far between. In fact, most YNT players don't make it to U23 and beyond. I know several players, good players, who were going to YNT events, camps, going out to California, and then slowly found themselves phased out.

Your argument is weak. Anyone below top 5 on a GDA roster isn't getting a look for YNT call ups. And if the kids that are top 1-2 are the ones that are getting called in AND can still play in HS if they choose (and many do), then US Soccer is not taking the stand that you claim. So players 5-20 on the GDA roster follow the rules in order to preserve a potential YNT camp invite that will never happen anyway. Makes total sense.

I was talking top 1-2 of a YNT roster, not a GDA roster.

So what is your point? The top 1-2 on a YNT roster accounts for about .000001% of kids playing soccer. If your argument is that only those GDA kids are granted waivers and/or using the roster loophole to play HS, you'd be wrong.

The replaceable kids follow the rules, the top 3-4 at any GDA club can do whatever they want. US Soccer allows it, so GDA will never have every player give up HS.

My point was pretty obvious. The top 1-2 players of a YNT roster may be exceptional and US Soccer overlooks them playing high school and other non-save. But the general expectation is that YNT players play DA and don't play High school.

But that completely crushes your argument that HS is "dead weight" for top players and that US Soccer will "phase out" players that don't comply. If the top 1-2 players on a YNT can play HS and not be adversely affected, and US Soccer allows it because they continue to be called in, played up an age group, etc., then why hold "lesser" players to a rule that you don't require the top players to follow? Same at the club level. The players that play HS are the top players at their GDA club. Lower level players are required to follow the rules, yet the top players manage to play HS and are still the top players when they join the team 6-7 games into the season.

I didn't say they weren't adversely affected. They are just so talented in these rare exceptions that they get away with it both as players and in front of US Soccer. I don't even know how many unicorns there really are. Someone said that SSS has a U16 girl. I'm not from that area or club, so I'm just taking it on faith. All the YNT players I know of don't play High school, girls and boys. Quite frankly, top players often find high school soccer Annoying.

But just because we can find some exception to the rule doesn't mean they aren't an exception, or that there isn't a rule.

The point is the US Soccer looks the other way on the rule. Often. They rail against HS soccer, yet several GDA players play HS soccer. If you are going to “draw a line in the sand”, then you have to enforce the rule 100% of the time. That’s not happening with GDA and I doubt it ever will.

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Anonymous wrote:I really hope they do switch back to the age groupings aligning with school year. This current system of birth year is not pretty when they are in HS and have a fall birthday. My daughter's team is mostly a grade ahead, she will be playing with a completely different team her senior year as the rest of the team will have graduated.

Translation, my kid is a September born kid.

I love people who throw this out there as though parents of kids with fall birth dates are looking for an advantage. I'm not the PP, but my daughter is a late October birthday. She plays ECNL at a top club and has totally benefited from playing with "older" players the past few years. That being said, it sucks for these kids when they are in 8th grade and there is no fall club season (our state plays HS in the fall) because the majority of their teammates are playing HS. Moving to grad year lets every kid have a team to play on every year. What is the negative? And if your kid is good enough for YNT camp invites, changing to grad year won't hurt them--they are already known.

Aww poor 8th grade.

Blame HS soccer. The passion to play crappy HS soccer is your problem not the age cutoff.

Facts. HS soccer is dead weight for top players.

Tell that to some of the GDA YNT players that still play HS. Doesn't seem to be hurting their standing with US Soccer.... Leading scorer in U18/19 GDA last year played HS.

Wrong again. 95% of YNT players are coming from the DA. The U16 team is entirely DA. US Soccer will continue to phase out those types of players. Every year, they select less and less. This is no accident either.

You clearly did not read the comment... There are YNT players that are playing in GDA but are on waivers every season to allow them to play HS. They are not phasing those kids out. The leading scorer from last year in GDA (18/19) is from NEFC. She plays HS soccer in the fall and has every year. She was called in to the U20's in December. She's not being phased out.

What I didn't add is what I said after that. It starts with phasing out the ECNL. Then they go for the part timers. And nobody is talking about U20s. Legacy YNT players that came up through the ECNL are what was the top at the time. They will do it through the younger age groups.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. The kids that are top players will continue to receive waivers. This does not apply to players 6-20 on a GDA roster. Those kids are not getting a look for YNT camps anyway. South Shore Select has a U16 player that plays up 2 years on the U18 YNT--some would argue that the club is in GDA because of this player. She plays HS and will continue to receive a waiver for as long as she wants. And US Soccer will continue to call her in. The top players can do whatever they want.

It doesn't apply to the top 1-2 players. On that I agree. It will apply to everyone else, which is the vast majority. If you are Tobin Heath outstanding, then you are in. But even in YNT players, those are few and very far between. In fact, most YNT players don't make it to U23 and beyond. I know several players, good players, who were going to YNT events, camps, going out to California, and then slowly found themselves phased out.

Your argument is weak. Anyone below top 5 on a GDA roster isn't getting a look for YNT call ups. And if the kids that are top 1-2 are the ones that are getting called in AND can still play in HS if they choose (and many do), then US Soccer is not taking the stand that you claim. So players 5-20 on the GDA roster follow the rules in order to preserve a potential YNT camp invite that will never happen anyway. Makes total sense.

I was talking top 1-2 of a YNT roster, not a GDA roster.

So what is your point? The top 1-2 on a YNT roster accounts for about .000001% of kids playing soccer. If your argument is that only those GDA kids are granted waivers and/or using the roster loophole to play HS, you'd be wrong.

The replaceable kids follow the rules, the top 3-4 at any GDA club can do whatever they want. US Soccer allows it, so GDA will never have every player give up HS.

My point was pretty obvious. The top 1-2 players of a YNT roster may be exceptional and US Soccer overlooks them playing high school and other non-save. But the general expectation is that YNT players play DA and don't play High school.

But that completely crushes your argument that HS is "dead weight" for top players and that US Soccer will "phase out" players that don't comply. If the top 1-2 players on a YNT can play HS and not be adversely affected, and US Soccer allows it because they continue to be called in, played up an age group, etc., then why hold "lesser" players to a rule that you don't require the top players to follow? Same at the club level. The players that play HS are the top players at their GDA club. Lower level players are required to follow the rules, yet the top players manage to play HS and are still the top players when they join the team 6-7 games into the season.

I didn't say they weren't adversely affected. They are just so talented in these rare exceptions that they get away with it both as players and in front of US Soccer. I don't even know how many unicorns there really are. Someone said that SSS has a U16 girl. I'm not from that area or club, so I'm just taking it on faith. All the YNT players I know of don't play High school, girls and boys. Quite frankly, top players often find high school soccer Annoying.

But just because we can find some exception to the rule doesn't mean they aren't an exception, or that there isn't a rule.

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Anonymous wrote:I really hope they do switch back to the age groupings aligning with school year. This current system of birth year is not pretty when they are in HS and have a fall birthday. My daughter's team is mostly a grade ahead, she will be playing with a completely different team her senior year as the rest of the team will have graduated.

Translation, my kid is a September born kid.

I love people who throw this out there as though parents of kids with fall birth dates are looking for an advantage. I'm not the PP, but my daughter is a late October birthday. She plays ECNL at a top club and has totally benefited from playing with "older" players the past few years. That being said, it sucks for these kids when they are in 8th grade and there is no fall club season (our state plays HS in the fall) because the majority of their teammates are playing HS. Moving to grad year lets every kid have a team to play on every year. What is the negative? And if your kid is good enough for YNT camp invites, changing to grad year won't hurt them--they are already known.

Aww poor 8th grade.

Blame HS soccer. The passion to play crappy HS soccer is your problem not the age cutoff.

Facts. HS soccer is dead weight for top players.

Tell that to some of the GDA YNT players that still play HS. Doesn't seem to be hurting their standing with US Soccer.... Leading scorer in U18/19 GDA last year played HS.

Wrong again. 95% of YNT players are coming from the DA. The U16 team is entirely DA. US Soccer will continue to phase out those types of players. Every year, they select less and less. This is no accident either.

You clearly did not read the comment... There are YNT players that are playing in GDA but are on waivers every season to allow them to play HS. They are not phasing those kids out. The leading scorer from last year in GDA (18/19) is from NEFC. She plays HS soccer in the fall and has every year. She was called in to the U20's in December. She's not being phased out.

What I didn't add is what I said after that. It starts with phasing out the ECNL. Then they go for the part timers. And nobody is talking about U20s. Legacy YNT players that came up through the ECNL are what was the top at the time. They will do it through the younger age groups.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. The kids that are top players will continue to receive waivers. This does not apply to players 6-20 on a GDA roster. Those kids are not getting a look for YNT camps anyway. South Shore Select has a U16 player that plays up 2 years on the U18 YNT--some would argue that the club is in GDA because of this player. She plays HS and will continue to receive a waiver for as long as she wants. And US Soccer will continue to call her in. The top players can do whatever they want.

It doesn't apply to the top 1-2 players. On that I agree. It will apply to everyone else, which is the vast majority. If you are Tobin Heath outstanding, then you are in. But even in YNT players, those are few and very far between. In fact, most YNT players don't make it to U23 and beyond. I know several players, good players, who were going to YNT events, camps, going out to California, and then slowly found themselves phased out.

Your argument is weak. Anyone below top 5 on a GDA roster isn't getting a look for YNT call ups. And if the kids that are top 1-2 are the ones that are getting called in AND can still play in HS if they choose (and many do), then US Soccer is not taking the stand that you claim. So players 5-20 on the GDA roster follow the rules in order to preserve a potential YNT camp invite that will never happen anyway. Makes total sense.

I was talking top 1-2 of a YNT roster, not a GDA roster.

So what is your point? The top 1-2 on a YNT roster accounts for about .000001% of kids playing soccer. If your argument is that only those GDA kids are granted waivers and/or using the roster loophole to play HS, you'd be wrong.

The replaceable kids follow the rules, the top 3-4 at any GDA club can do whatever they want. US Soccer allows it, so GDA will never have every player give up HS.

My point was pretty obvious. The top 1-2 players of a YNT roster may be exceptional and US Soccer overlooks them playing high school and other non-save. But the general expectation is that YNT players play DA and don't play High school.

But that completely crushes your argument that HS is "dead weight" for top players and that US Soccer will "phase out" players that don't comply. If the top 1-2 players on a YNT can play HS and not be adversely affected, and US Soccer allows it because they continue to be called in, played up an age group, etc., then why hold "lesser" players to a rule that you don't require the top players to follow? Same at the club level. The players that play HS are the top players at their GDA club. Lower level players are required to follow the rules, yet the top players manage to play HS and are still the top players when they join the team 6-7 games into the season.

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Anonymous wrote:The old way works better for 98% of American youth soccer players who are not national team candidates or likely to become professionals. Why doesn't that matter?

Personally, having seen how the switchover played out, some really athletic kids gave up soccer for other sports, and the attrition seemed more pronounced on the girls' side. The best will rise to the top eventually, but no one becomes the best at soccer unless they start play soccer when they are kids. Most often, kids start because they want to play with their friends.

The fall kids quit just like the summer kids who quit during the years of school year you just didn’t care to notice.

You are talking about a different issue. There will always be a relative age effect and those born at the end of the cutoff will are more likely to have a hard time. However, RAE can be addressed with awareness and good coaching, both of which are difficult to find.

For most recreational and non-elite players. the draw of playing with their friends is greater than a desire to be a star at an elite club. The natural grouping of kids by school year makes more sense from a social perspective.


The large majority of American youth suffer because the "experts" can't identify and develop world class talent.

You don’t necessarily get to play with your friends or classmates at club. People confuse rec with travel soccer. There might be two kids on any given travel team who go to the same school. The more competitive the travel team the less likely you will be playing with friends or classmates.

Again, I’m sorry your kid is now an overlooked October born player.

DP. Sounds like you’re worried your summer- born kid won’t be able to compete without an age advantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old way works better for 98% of American youth soccer players who are not national team candidates or likely to become professionals. Why doesn't that matter?

Personally, having seen how the switchover played out, some really athletic kids gave up soccer for other sports, and the attrition seemed more pronounced on the girls' side. The best will rise to the top eventually, but no one becomes the best at soccer unless they start play soccer when they are kids. Most often, kids start because they want to play with their friends.

The fall kids quit just like the summer kids who quit during the years of school year you just didn’t care to notice.

You are talking about a different issue. There will always be a relative age effect and those born at the end of the cutoff will are more likely to have a hard time. However, RAE can be addressed with awareness and good coaching, both of which are difficult to find.

For most recreational and non-elite players. the draw of playing with their friends is greater than a desire to be a star at an elite club. The natural grouping of kids by school year makes more sense from a social perspective.


The large majority of American youth suffer because the "experts" can't identify and develop world class talent.

You don’t necessarily get to play with your friends or classmates at club. People confuse rec with travel soccer. There might be two kids on any given travel team who go to the same school. The more competitive the travel team the less likely you will be playing with friends or classmates.

Again, I’m sorry your kid is now an overlooked October born player.

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Anonymous wrote:I really hope they do switch back to the age groupings aligning with school year. This current system of birth year is not pretty when they are in HS and have a fall birthday. My daughter's team is mostly a grade ahead, she will be playing with a completely different team her senior year as the rest of the team will have graduated.

Translation, my kid is a September born kid.

I love people who throw this out there as though parents of kids with fall birth dates are looking for an advantage. I'm not the PP, but my daughter is a late October birthday. She plays ECNL at a top club and has totally benefited from playing with "older" players the past few years. That being said, it sucks for these kids when they are in 8th grade and there is no fall club season (our state plays HS in the fall) because the majority of their teammates are playing HS. Moving to grad year lets every kid have a team to play on every year. What is the negative? And if your kid is good enough for YNT camp invites, changing to grad year won't hurt them--they are already known.

Aww poor 8th grade.

Blame HS soccer. The passion to play crappy HS soccer is your problem not the age cutoff.

Facts. HS soccer is dead weight for top players.

Tell that to some of the GDA YNT players that still play HS. Doesn't seem to be hurting their standing with US Soccer.... Leading scorer in U18/19 GDA last year played HS.

Wrong again. 95% of YNT players are coming from the DA. The U16 team is entirely DA. US Soccer will continue to phase out those types of players. Every year, they select less and less. This is no accident either.

You clearly did not read the comment... There are YNT players that are playing in GDA but are on waivers every season to allow them to play HS. They are not phasing those kids out. The leading scorer from last year in GDA (18/19) is from NEFC. She plays HS soccer in the fall and has every year. She was called in to the U20's in December. She's not being phased out.

What I didn't add is what I said after that. It starts with phasing out the ECNL. Then they go for the part timers. And nobody is talking about U20s. Legacy YNT players that came up through the ECNL are what was the top at the time. They will do it through the younger age groups.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. The kids that are top players will continue to receive waivers. This does not apply to players 6-20 on a GDA roster. Those kids are not getting a look for YNT camps anyway. South Shore Select has a U16 player that plays up 2 years on the U18 YNT--some would argue that the club is in GDA because of this player. She plays HS and will continue to receive a waiver for as long as she wants. And US Soccer will continue to call her in. The top players can do whatever they want.

It doesn't apply to the top 1-2 players. On that I agree. It will apply to everyone else, which is the vast majority. If you are Tobin Heath outstanding, then you are in. But even in YNT players, those are few and very far between. In fact, most YNT players don't make it to U23 and beyond. I know several players, good players, who were going to YNT events, camps, going out to California, and then slowly found themselves phased out.

Your argument is weak. Anyone below top 5 on a GDA roster isn't getting a look for YNT call ups. And if the kids that are top 1-2 are the ones that are getting called in AND can still play in HS if they choose (and many do), then US Soccer is not taking the stand that you claim. So players 5-20 on the GDA roster follow the rules in order to preserve a potential YNT camp invite that will never happen anyway. Makes total sense.

I was talking top 1-2 of a YNT roster, not a GDA roster.

So what is your point? The top 1-2 on a YNT roster accounts for about .000001% of kids playing soccer. If your argument is that only those GDA kids are granted waivers and/or using the roster loophole to play HS, you'd be wrong.

The replaceable kids follow the rules, the top 3-4 at any GDA club can do whatever they want. US Soccer allows it, so GDA will never have every player give up HS.

My point was pretty obvious. The top 1-2 players of a YNT roster may be exceptional and US Soccer overlooks them playing high school and other non-save. But the general expectation is that YNT players play DA and don't play High school.