Anonymous
11/21/2019 10:12
Subject: The quiet rooms
That poster will have no idea what a PHP program is.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 10:03
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
I don't disagree that everyone should be in a safe environment. Nobody disagrees with that! The question is how to keep everyone safest when something DOES happen. In that case, we need to keep everyone- the disabled student, the other children, and the teachers- as safe as possible. The safest way to do that for all of the people mentioned is to clear the class. If that happens more than once in a non special ed classroom, then I believe everyone feels that it would be appropriate to look at a different placement in order to keep everyone safe. The problem is not the focus groups- it is often the counties not having the money to do what is right for everyone. But it is certainly not the fault of the disabled child. That child did not ask to get placed into a room that does not have the right amount of support. That child does not deserve to be shoved into a room because the bureaucratic shit show our counties are can't provide the child with FAPE. Don't blame the teachers, kids, or parents. Blame the ones that are not providing for the children!
There was another interesting thread in which a parent of an unregulated child said when her child was placed in a special program and had big burly male teachers
the child suddenly had had consistent regulated behavior and was able to learn. The mother of the child felt that when her child had a 110 pound petite female
teacher her child was consistently unregulated. Sometimes it is not about having the money for "the right amount of support" but having access to a big burly male
teacher. The Mom felt the access to the big burly male teacher was key to her childs regulation.
Sadly it is not politically correct to say men have a key role in childrens lives, particularly on this forum.
Throwing children in closets at a school seems like Victorian punishment.
That was my kid. Unfortunately, that placement was a PHP program so it's not something that I can ask for permanent placement in. However, Sheppard Pratt does have the Frost School here and we're in the process of interviewing there for placement. The Frost School knows what environment my kid was successful in and knows the teacher from the PHP. They know exactly what is going to make him successful.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:47
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
I don't disagree that everyone should be in a safe environment. Nobody disagrees with that! The question is how to keep everyone safest when something DOES happen. In that case, we need to keep everyone- the disabled student, the other children, and the teachers- as safe as possible. The safest way to do that for all of the people mentioned is to clear the class. If that happens more than once in a non special ed classroom, then I believe everyone feels that it would be appropriate to look at a different placement in order to keep everyone safe. The problem is not the focus groups- it is often the counties not having the money to do what is right for everyone. But it is certainly not the fault of the disabled child. That child did not ask to get placed into a room that does not have the right amount of support. That child does not deserve to be shoved into a room because the bureaucratic shit show our counties are can't provide the child with FAPE. Don't blame the teachers, kids, or parents. Blame the ones that are not providing for the children!
There was another interesting thread in which a parent of an unregulated child said when her child was placed in a special program and had big burly male teachers
the child suddenly had had consistent regulated behavior and was able to learn. The mother of the child felt that when her child had a 110 pound petite female
teacher her child was consistently unregulated. Sometimes it is not about having the money for "the right amount of support" but having access to a big burly male
teacher. The Mom felt the access to the big burly male teacher was key to her childs regulation.
Sadly it is not politically correct to say men have a key role in childrens lives, particularly on this forum.
Throwing children in closets at a school seems like Victorian punishment.
I’m the PP whose son was secluded. I think for most children, the seclusion does nothing but provoke anger. It certainly does not calm students. It escalates tense situations. If you are caged like a wild animal, wouldn’t you experience rage and grow to disrespect and not trust your teachers? In my son’s case, the teachers were provoking and verbally embarrassing him for his disabilities rather than consulting with the school’s special ed staff to minimize merely annoying behavior like talking out of turn. It was only after seclusion began that he started acting out in more concerning ways.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:42
Subject: The quiet rooms
I don’t think you understand what people mean by “regulated”, Boomer.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:36
Subject: The quiet rooms
Great. Link to that thread please?
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:28
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
I don't disagree that everyone should be in a safe environment. Nobody disagrees with that! The question is how to keep everyone safest when something DOES happen. In that case, we need to keep everyone- the disabled student, the other children, and the teachers- as safe as possible. The safest way to do that for all of the people mentioned is to clear the class. If that happens more than once in a non special ed classroom, then I believe everyone feels that it would be appropriate to look at a different placement in order to keep everyone safe. The problem is not the focus groups- it is often the counties not having the money to do what is right for everyone. But it is certainly not the fault of the disabled child. That child did not ask to get placed into a room that does not have the right amount of support. That child does not deserve to be shoved into a room because the bureaucratic shit show our counties are can't provide the child with FAPE. Don't blame the teachers, kids, or parents. Blame the ones that are not providing for the children!
There was another interesting thread in which a parent of an unregulated child said when her child was placed in a special program and had big burly male teachers
the child suddenly had had consistent regulated behavior and was able to learn. The mother of the child felt that when her child had a 110 pound petite female
teacher her child was consistently unregulated. Sometimes it is not about having the money for "the right amount of support" but having access to a big burly male
teacher. The Mom felt the access to the big burly male teacher was key to her childs regulation.
Sadly it is not politically correct to say men have a key role in childrens lives, particularly on this forum.
Throwing children in closets at a school seems like Victorian punishment.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:27
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How many general education schools have quiet rooms? My children have been in multiple schools in MCPS and I was only aware of one elementary school with seclusion rooms and they were located inside the special education self contained classes.
I am trying to picture how a general education student who is out of control is transported to a seclusion room located somewhere in the school. I don't think it would/could happen. I have taken restraint training and you are rarely transporting a child very far. If you did, you would risk injury for all involved. So I have to assume, that the vast majority of children that are being placed in seclusion rooms are already in self contained classrooms. If this is the case, then there really should be very few instances when things have gotten to such a dangerous place that transporting a flailing child into a room is safer and less disruptive than any alternative.
Schools are not prisons or hospitals and should not be acting as such. If the only solution that the school has is to lock a kid up, then the child needs to be placed in a hospital. Seclusion has no place in schools or education.
THIS. It doesn't happen in gen ed. 99.9% occur in self-contained.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. It happens in gen. ed. AND in AAP classes. I know because it happened to my 2e son for very minor behaviors that could have been avoided if staff had provided the minimal accommodations required by his IEP. When I found out what was happening, I took him out of that horrible school immediately. I hope FCPS gets smacked by the Court so it won’t happen to other students.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:26
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
Plus 1.
The parents should be called to pick up their child when he/she is out of control.
Are parents of children with behavioral disabilities not allowed to have a job? Should they just wait around to pick up their child because their child is not receiving an appropriate education? Or should we just make a decision that these disabled children should just not get any education?
By law the children are entitled to an education. Would you not want to be called to pick up your child before your child was put in a closet?
Calling a parent over and over again to pick up a child is a denial of that child's right to an education. I do not want any children to be locked in closets. These are not the only two options.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:25
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
I don't disagree that everyone should be in a safe environment. Nobody disagrees with that! The question is how to keep everyone safest when something DOES happen. In that case, we need to keep everyone- the disabled student, the other children, and the teachers- as safe as possible. The safest way to do that for all of the people mentioned is to clear the class. If that happens more than once in a non special ed classroom, then I believe everyone feels that it would be appropriate to look at a different placement in order to keep everyone safe. The problem is not the focus groups- it is often the counties not having the money to do what is right for everyone. But it is certainly not the fault of the disabled child. That child did not ask to get placed into a room that does not have the right amount of support. That child does not deserve to be shoved into a room because the bureaucratic shit show our counties are can't provide the child with FAPE. Don't blame the teachers, kids, or parents. Blame the ones that are not providing for the children!
+1
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:23
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
Plus 1.
The parents should be called to pick up their child when he/she is out of control.
Are parents of children with behavioral disabilities not allowed to have a job? Should they just wait around to pick up their child because their child is not receiving an appropriate education? Or should we just make a decision that these disabled children should just not get any education?
I WFH with a very flexible job. I am waiting on a date for non public placement from CIEP. I emailed the teacher and cc'd the principal that knowing where we were heading, if she melted at school, just to call or email me and I would come get her. Things are pretty bad right now and no point in providing continual blows to her self esteem. That worked pretty well for about a week. Then the central SN coordinator for our program got wind of it and I guess the teacher was told to stop calling me for pickup. I know she's out of the classroom for the majority of the day and in the quiet room but I'm not getting calls/emails to pick up. I do get an incident report daily about what occurred and how much time she spent in the quiet room. I've considered removing her school for the time being while we wait for placement but I was advised that that was a bad idea and CIEP would use her lack of attendance to tell me that I did not give her current placement an opportunity to help her succeed.
I would get a note from her pediatrician stating that she is not to be put in the "quiet room" as it is hugely detrimental to her psyche.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:22
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
Plus 1.
The parents should be called to pick up their child when he/she is out of control.
Are parents of children with behavioral disabilities not allowed to have a job? Should they just wait around to pick up their child because their child is not receiving an appropriate education? Or should we just make a decision that these disabled children should just not get any education?
I WFH with a very flexible job. I am waiting on a date for non public placement from CIEP. I emailed the teacher and cc'd the principal that knowing where we were heading, if she melted at school, just to call or email me and I would come get her. Things are pretty bad right now and no point in providing continual blows to her self esteem. That worked pretty well for about a week. Then the central SN coordinator for our program got wind of it and I guess the teacher was told to stop calling me for pickup. I know she's out of the classroom for the majority of the day and in the quiet room but I'm not getting calls/emails to pick up. I do get an incident report daily about what occurred and how much time she spent in the quiet room. I've considered removing her school for the time being while we wait for placement but I was advised that that was a bad idea and CIEP would use her lack of attendance to tell me that I did not give her current placement an opportunity to help her succeed.
My child was seriously traumatized by overuse of seclusion rooms at a FCPS contract school that closed down. He started a lot of behaviors he had never had before, including skin picking, pulling out his eyelashes and eyebrows, and head-banging. If your child is just being left to sit in the quiet closet all day, that's a really bad situation.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:20
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
But don't the 24 children and teacher feel psychological danger and physical danger when chairs/desks are thrown at them 1-3 times per week? It seems allowing the
unregulated child to remain in general and gifted classrooms can cause psychological danger and physical danger to the regulated children and teacher prior
to them walking out of the classroom.
Do special ed classrooms not exist anymore? Back in the day unredulated children would be in special ed classrooms regardless of whether they were gifted or not.
The lock in a closet rooms did not exist.
Did you read the article and the lawsuit against Fairfax schools? The closets are used almost exclusively for children who are *already placed in self-contained classrooms or special-ed-kids-only schools*. Putting children in "special ed classrooms" does not address the issue of use of locked closets. As another poster pointed out, your lack of compassion for disabled children is a sad reflection on your character.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:19
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
Plus 1.
The parents should be called to pick up their child when he/she is out of control.
Are parents of children with behavioral disabilities not allowed to have a job? Should they just wait around to pick up their child because their child is not receiving an appropriate education? Or should we just make a decision that these disabled children should just not get any education?
I WFH with a very flexible job. I am waiting on a date for non public placement from CIEP. I emailed the teacher and cc'd the principal that knowing where we were heading, if she melted at school, just to call or email me and I would come get her. Things are pretty bad right now and no point in providing continual blows to her self esteem. That worked pretty well for about a week. Then the central SN coordinator for our program got wind of it and I guess the teacher was told to stop calling me for pickup. I know she's out of the classroom for the majority of the day and in the quiet room but I'm not getting calls/emails to pick up. I do get an incident report daily about what occurred and how much time she spent in the quiet room. I've considered removing her school for the time being while we wait for placement but I was advised that that was a bad idea and CIEP would use her lack of attendance to tell me that I did not give her current placement an opportunity to help her succeed.
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:18
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
We are talking about whether it's okay to hurt the child. Pushing the kid into a seclusion room is causing psychological danger and often also physical danger. Clearing a room is not intended to leave teachers to get injured. They should absolutely not be in danger's way and able to move around the room out of harm's way which will be safer than trying to force an out of control flailing child into a room/closet.
Again, the teacher and other students shouldn’t have to move “out of harms way” AT SCHOOL.
Plus 1.
The parents should be called to pick up their child when he/she is out of control.
Are parents of children with behavioral disabilities not allowed to have a job? Should they just wait around to pick up their child because their child is not receiving an appropriate education? Or should we just make a decision that these disabled children should just not get any education?
By law the children are entitled to an education. Would you not want to be called to pick up your child before your child was put in a closet?
Anonymous
11/21/2019 09:17
Subject: The quiet rooms
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So Illinois is not using the rooms as intended and that definitely should be corrected. But at that doesn’t mean they are abused everywhere. SN kids can’t hurt people, even their teachers. I can’t believe some parents are okay with that.
Who said it was ok?
The people who want to keep this kids in class at the expense of everyone else. One lady on another thread reasoned that a kid “only throws chairs a few times a week.” Like this wasn’t too bad.
Can you point to some examples of people saying its ok for people to get hurt? Most people are suggesting the kids and teachers be moved out of the room so they don't get hurt if a child is throwing chairs. Sorry, you aren't making a lot of sense.