Not sure what' I'm missing, but I don't see any issues with the referee there.

The point is that shitty ref or no, yelling at the ref NEVER results in anything good happening for your team.

You just don't do it, no matter how angry you are. If you can't control your temper, then yes, you get kicked off.

FPYCparent wrote:Here's the play (just one minute of video):

https://youtu.be/XZCp2-7Cn9E?t=920

The McLean keeper made a save, walked up to the edge of the penalty area, stutter-stepped over the line as she punted. FPYC was awarded an indirect kick just inside the penalty arc. From the video, it doesn't appear that the ref spoke to any McLean player during the set up of the resulting kick (aside from informing the keeper why he made the call). Based on what I see, I'm not sure that there was any advantage gained due to the ref's actions after he made the initial call.

Oh dear.

First of all, a handball outside the box is a direct free kick. It doesn't matter if it is committed by the GK or a field player. It is only an indirect kick if it is a handball by the GK inside the box (on a passback).

After the goal went in, the ref seemed to be explaining to the Mclean player that the 10 yards extends in all directions from where the kick is taken - not just directly in front (where the wall is). So you can't position yourself inside the 10 yds, but off to the side, and then run in and try and block the kick, which is what the player was trying to do. Again, if the ref had made the right call to begin with (direct kick) this really wouldn't have been an issue.

Anyway, if the ref had a problem with where the McLean player had positioned herself, he should have stopped play immediately, made sure the player was outside the 10 yds, and then allowed the kick to be taken on his whistle. Once he allows the kick to be taken though, it's too late. Instead, it looked like he said something that caused her to stop and hesitate - after the ball had already been put in play by the 1st FPYC player - which allowed the goal scorer to take the shot (nice shot by the way). So he kind of made up his own rule: You can't be inside a 10 yd radius of the ball before the kick is taken, but if you are then you have can't move until the ref tells you it's OK.

[Aside: Normally, the ref has no obligation to re-position the defending players outside the 10 yds anyway, unless and until the attacking team has asked for its space, but under these circumstances it probably would have been OK given that the player had taken up sort of an unorthodox position.]

So yeah, the ref screwed this all up. Typical U12 soccer. GK makes a silly mistake. Ref has no clue how to do his job. Defending players not too clear on the rules. And some crazy parent picks that moment to make an issue out of it. Did the parent know that it should have been a direct kick anyway? Probably not. Did he know his daughter was in the wrong as well for re-positioning herself well inside the 10 yds just before the kick was taken? Probably not. Did he appreciate that - even if the ref screwed up by telling her to stop after the ball was in play - he did take the time to explain the rule to her after the play, so at least she learned something from it? Probably not.

FPYCparent wrote:Here's the play (just one minute of video):

https://youtu.be/XZCp2-7Cn9E?t=920

The McLean keeper made a save, walked up to the edge of the penalty area, stutter-stepped over the line as she punted. FPYC was awarded an indirect kick just inside the penalty arc. From the video, it doesn't appear that the ref spoke to any McLean player during the set up of the resulting kick (aside from informing the keeper why he made the call). Based on what I see, I'm not sure that there was any advantage gained due to the ref's actions after he made the initial call.

Can you post the parent getting red carded?

FPYCparent wrote:I am not going to argue whether the opposing team (my DD's team in this instance, no less) got an advantage in that particular moment. Yes, the play ultimately resulting in a goal scored.

However, I look at this from a bigger perspective. What did the players really learn in that moment? For one player, she probably saw her dad disrespect someone who she's supposed to respect. (I think these girls are too young to simply yell out, "Dad, please stop! You are embarrassing me!" ) Her dad was told to leave and didn't have the opportunity to see her perform the remainder of the game. Whether the parent/adult was right or wrong, that was not the moment to push any further after the ref's warning. Maybe the parent could have taken it to the coach at halftime and work it at that level.

There was also a younger female AR on the parent's sideline. I like that the head ref came over and conferred with her before talking to the parents. I like that the head ref was able to making this incident a teaching moment for the AR as well.

Let's say these players (and young ARs) are continually exposed to moments like that for the next 10+ years (and that is assuming this episode hasn't already repeated itself a few times). When they're 25 and living on their own or with a partner, they'll think it's OK for a man (or any adult, really) to show outright disrespect … towards them or anyone else. Speaking just for myself, that's not what I want my daughters to consider normal **and** acceptable behavior.

This incident in this game did not determine the final outcome. We're still talking about a November soccer game between 11-year-olds where the final score will be forgotten in two months, if not two weeks. However, none of the girls will forget witnessing an adult being thrown out.

And, yes, I would have no problem seeing that ref at any of my DD's matches in the future. Having sat through two or three U12 season games this fall with no refs, I'd welcome him.

Well, the PP said that the parent wasn't disrespectful, he just called out that the ref shouldn't have held up one of the players. I mean silent soccer is no fun and I see no harm in basically saying...Come on Ref, you missed that one. And maybe the girls got to witness what happens when you do actually disrespect a referee which is getting sent to the parking lot. I don't think these girls will be traumatized over this. On a different note...by having a talk with this girl, did this ref save the girl the embarrassment of getting a yellow card for failure to respect the distance or delaying the restart? Maybe look at it from that point as well. Also, couldn't someone else in the wall realize Mary was missing and they charge the free kick? Lots of lessons learned here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FPYCparent wrote:I was also at Lewinsville Park for U12 play. Got to see one ref throw out a coach (Loudoun Red? U11 or U12, not sure) and two parents (one McLean White), all in separate incidents today. With the McLean White incident (playing against DD's team), the ref clearly issued a warning and said that one more word would result in an ejection. The parent just had to say one more thing and was immediately told to leave. I don't think any of the head ref's or AR's calls were horrible (not saying they were all great), but there was no need for U11 and U12 players to see any parent not heeding a referee's clear warning. That said, I want that ref to do all of my DD's games!

DD's team almost acquitted themselves after a rough first game (adjusting to a shorter field, 25-minute halves, and sub-40 temps) by losing 0 - 1 on a partial-deflection-possible-own-goal in the final of the middle bracket (against Coppermine's top team … USYS EDP).

U12 results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917&Gender=Girls&Age=12

All results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917

I have a somewhat different take on this ref. When the ref has to throw out a coach and several parents in two back to back U12 girls games, we should not automatically assume that the parents and coaches from different clubs were out of control. I saw half a dozen U12 games in this tournament in the first and second U12 brackets and I did not see anyone thrown out. I do not know why he threw out the coach and parents in Loudoun game, but McLean White parents were upset, because he gave an unfair advantage to the opposing team during a free kick. After the ref gave an indirect free kick (which was called correctly), he called up one of Mclean girls and started to talk to her about being too close to the ball. While he was talking to McLean player, who was expected to be the runner and block the shot, the opposing team took an uncontested free kick and scored. A good ref would have told the opposing team to wait till the whistle before they restart the play. The player obviously could not sprint and block the shot, while the ref was admonishing her for initially being to close to the ball. I can appreciate his desire to explain the rules to a U12 player, but he ended up giving an unfair advantage to one team by allowing them to restart the play while he was talking to the runner and occupying her attention. As for his "warning" to parents, it was delivered in a confrontational "in your face" manner and not in a calm tone that was likely to diffuse the tension. The parent did not cuss or call the ref names, but only told the ref that he should not have allowed the play to restart if he was admonishing a player and preventing her from defending. It's a fair point to make. The ref blew the whistle and asked the parent to leave. The parent left immediately. I did not see anyone taunt or verbally abuse this ref in either Loudoun game or McLean game. You can have him for all your daughters games, but I prefer refs who makes calls and does not create drama.

I apologize, but can you explain this again? This girl was the "runner and [was supposed to] block the shot" on an indirect free kick. I don't understand what a runner is I guess. Was she supposed to be in a wall? The kick was indirect as well. Is she the girl that charges the ball after the first touch? Thanks

Yes, in addition to the wall, one player charges the ball after the first touch on the indirect free kick, which she could not do because the ref was talking to her when the ball was played.

Anonymous wrote:

FPYCparent wrote:I was also at Lewinsville Park for U12 play. Got to see one ref throw out a coach (Loudoun Red? U11 or U12, not sure) and two parents (one McLean White), all in separate incidents today. With the McLean White incident (playing against DD's team), the ref clearly issued a warning and said that one more word would result in an ejection. The parent just had to say one more thing and was immediately told to leave. I don't think any of the head ref's or AR's calls were horrible (not saying they were all great), but there was no need for U11 and U12 players to see any parent not heeding a referee's clear warning. That said, I want that ref to do all of my DD's games!

DD's team almost acquitted themselves after a rough first game (adjusting to a shorter field, 25-minute halves, and sub-40 temps) by losing 0 - 1 on a partial-deflection-possible-own-goal in the final of the middle bracket (against Coppermine's top team … USYS EDP).

U12 results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917&Gender=Girls&Age=12

All results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917

I have a somewhat different take on this ref. When the ref has to throw out a coach and several parents in two back to back U12 girls games, we should not automatically assume that the parents and coaches from different clubs were out of control. I saw half a dozen U12 games in this tournament in the first and second U12 brackets and I did not see anyone thrown out. I do not know why he threw out the coach and parents in Loudoun game, but McLean White parents were upset, because he gave an unfair advantage to the opposing team during a free kick. After the ref gave an indirect free kick (which was called correctly), he called up one of Mclean girls and started to talk to her about being too close to the ball. While he was talking to McLean player, who was expected to be the runner and block the shot, the opposing team took an uncontested free kick and scored. A good ref would have told the opposing team to wait till the whistle before they restart the play. The player obviously could not sprint and block the shot, while the ref was admonishing her for initially being to close to the ball. I can appreciate his desire to explain the rules to a U12 player, but he ended up giving an unfair advantage to one team by allowing them to restart the play while he was talking to the runner and occupying her attention. As for his "warning" to parents, it was delivered in a confrontational "in your face" manner and not in a calm tone that was likely to diffuse the tension. The parent did not cuss or call the ref names, but only told the ref that he should not have allowed the play to restart if he was admonishing a player and preventing her from defending. It's a fair point to make. The ref blew the whistle and asked the parent to leave. The parent left immediately. I did not see anyone taunt or verbally abuse this ref in either Loudoun game or McLean game. You can have him for all your daughters games, but I prefer refs who makes calls and does not create drama.

I apologize, but can you explain this again? This girl was the "runner and [was supposed to] block the shot" on an indirect free kick. I don't understand what a runner is I guess. Was she supposed to be in a wall? The kick was indirect as well. Is she the girl that charges the ball after the first touch? Thanks

FPYCparent wrote:I was also at Lewinsville Park for U12 play. Got to see one ref throw out a coach (Loudoun Red? U11 or U12, not sure) and two parents (one McLean White), all in separate incidents today. With the McLean White incident (playing against DD's team), the ref clearly issued a warning and said that one more word would result in an ejection. The parent just had to say one more thing and was immediately told to leave. I don't think any of the head ref's or AR's calls were horrible (not saying they were all great), but there was no need for U11 and U12 players to see any parent not heeding a referee's clear warning. That said, I want that ref to do all of my DD's games!

DD's team almost acquitted themselves after a rough first game (adjusting to a shorter field, 25-minute halves, and sub-40 temps) by losing 0 - 1 on a partial-deflection-possible-own-goal in the final of the middle bracket (against Coppermine's top team … USYS EDP).

U12 results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917&Gender=Girls&Age=12

All results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917

I have a somewhat different take on this ref. When the ref has to throw out a coach and several parents in two back to back U12 girls games, we should not automatically assume that the parents and coaches from different clubs were out of control. I saw half a dozen U12 games in this tournament in the first and second U12 brackets and I did not see anyone thrown out. I do not know why he threw out the coach and parents in Loudoun game, but McLean White parents were upset, because he gave an unfair advantage to the opposing team during a free kick. After the ref gave an indirect free kick (which was called correctly), he called up one of Mclean girls and started to talk to her about being too close to the ball. While he was talking to McLean player, who was expected to be the runner and block the shot, the opposing team took an uncontested free kick and scored. A good ref would have told the opposing team to wait till the whistle before they restart the play. The player obviously could not sprint and block the shot, while the ref was admonishing her for initially being to close to the ball. I can appreciate his desire to explain the rules to a U12 player, but he ended up giving an unfair advantage to one team by allowing them to restart the play while he was talking to the runner and occupying her attention. As for his "warning" to parents, it was delivered in a confrontational "in your face" manner and not in a calm tone that was likely to diffuse the tension. The parent did not cuss or call the ref names, but only told the ref that he should not have allowed the play to restart if he was admonishing a player and preventing her from defending. It's a fair point to make. The ref blew the whistle and asked the parent to leave. The parent left immediately. I did not see anyone taunt or verbally abuse this ref in either Loudoun game or McLean game. You can have him for all your daughters games, but I prefer refs who makes calls and does not create drama.

FPYCparent wrote:I was also at Lewinsville Park for U12 play. Got to see one ref throw out a coach (Loudoun Red? U11 or U12, not sure) and two parents (one McLean White), all in separate incidents today. With the McLean White incident (playing against DD's team), the ref clearly issued a warning and said that one more word would result in an ejection. The parent just had to say one more thing and was immediately told to leave. I don't think any of the head ref's or AR's calls were horrible (not saying they were all great), but there was no need for U11 and U12 players to see any parent not heeding a referee's clear warning. That said, I want that ref to do all of my DD's games!

DD's team almost acquitted themselves after a rough first game (adjusting to a shorter field, 25-minute halves, and sub-40 temps) by losing 0 - 1 on a partial-deflection-possible-own-goal in the final of the middle bracket (against Coppermine's top team … USYS EDP).

U12 results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917&Gender=Girls&Age=12

All results: https://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=70917

I saw this game -- although not with a routing interest, as we were the game afterwards -- and I agree on all points.

I thought the refs today were clear and professional -- even if you didn't always agree with the calls -- and I appreciated that they weren't bullied by that ugly faction of soccer parent who doesn't understand the game, but feels free to berate referees who do....

I also thought the shorter fields were a disservice to all the U12 teams. These are U9 field for 7v7, and it is not helpful for development to have 18, U12 girls in such a tight space.

Thanks to FPYCparent for all the helpful posts, and for putting yourself out there. I found myself wandering the sideline, wondering who you were. Lots of respect for the modesty, honesty and integrity. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I bet you are one hell of a Dad. Respect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the tournament?

In the highly discussed U12 group, Loudoun and Arlington tied atop their bracket, forcing a 7:45am shootout, which Arlington won 4-3. Arlington thus won the bracket and played McLean. Loudoun played A3 Arsenal to a draw in a very taut physical game. Arsenal is a very long athletic team, and almost found a way through, but ultimately the game went to a shootout. Tied after 5, they shot ones, until Loudon buried one and Arsenal's kick went wide. Arlington beat McLean 2-1, in a game that didn't seem that close, with the only McLean goal coming off a pretty poorly called penalty.

In the Final, Loudoun out-hustled Arlington in the first half going up 2-0. Arlington fought back in the second half, and had multiple scoring chances, but couldn't seem to put their foot on it. Loudoun was unable to create a shot in the second half. Hard fought game, but Loudoun made the most of their opportunities and Arlington did not. Loudoun is the deserving champion.

Arlington seemed to be playing like the team of old, as opposed to the team that has struggled through the Fall. Rumor is that their old coach was back on the sideline for the tournament.

next up is Jeff Cup and Arlington can show what they can really do

In a lower flight. If they did not get the top flight in wags, they will not get the top flight at Jeff cup. They could be 4-5 flights down.

They will not be top flight, but 4-5 flights down is a ludicrous statement.

No it’s pretty typical. JC use the rankings. There will be quite a few teams higher ranked from outside the area. Richmond striker and Pipeline in MD will get top(#1 in the state). Loudoun will be a flight above Arlington but even Loudoun will not be top flight...maybe 2nd or 3rd.

Unfortunately the ranking do not look good for Arlington. In one of the major ranking sites, Arlington White is ranked ahead of Arlington Red. It is what it is. There will be a lot of team ranked significant higher and with a track.

What happened to pipeline U12 at bethesda tournament ?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the tournament?

In the highly discussed U12 group, Loudoun and Arlington tied atop their bracket, forcing a 7:45am shootout, which Arlington won 4-3. Arlington thus won the bracket and played McLean. Loudoun played A3 Arsenal to a draw in a very taut physical game. Arsenal is a very long athletic team, and almost found a way through, but ultimately the game went to a shootout. Tied after 5, they shot ones, until Loudon buried one and Arsenal's kick went wide. Arlington beat McLean 2-1, in a game that didn't seem that close, with the only McLean goal coming off a pretty poorly called penalty.

In the Final, Loudoun out-hustled Arlington in the first half going up 2-0. Arlington fought back in the second half, and had multiple scoring chances, but couldn't seem to put their foot on it. Loudoun was unable to create a shot in the second half. Hard fought game, but Loudoun made the most of their opportunities and Arlington did not. Loudoun is the deserving champion.

Arlington seemed to be playing like the team of old, as opposed to the team that has struggled through the Fall. Rumor is that their old coach was back on the sideline for the tournament.

next up is Jeff Cup and Arlington can show what they can really do

In a lower flight. If they did not get the top flight in wags, they will not get the top flight at Jeff cup. They could be 4-5 flights down.

They will not be top flight, but 4-5 flights down is a ludicrous statement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the tournament?

In the highly discussed U12 group, Loudoun and Arlington tied atop their bracket, forcing a 7:45am shootout, which Arlington won 4-3. Arlington thus won the bracket and played McLean. Loudoun played A3 Arsenal to a draw in a very taut physical game. Arsenal is a very long athletic team, and almost found a way through, but ultimately the game went to a shootout. Tied after 5, they shot ones, until Loudon buried one and Arsenal's kick went wide. Arlington beat McLean 2-1, in a game that didn't seem that close, with the only McLean goal coming off a pretty poorly called penalty.

In the Final, Loudoun out-hustled Arlington in the first half going up 2-0. Arlington fought back in the second half, and had multiple scoring chances, but couldn't seem to put their foot on it. Loudoun was unable to create a shot in the second half. Hard fought game, but Loudoun made the most of their opportunities and Arlington did not. Loudoun is the deserving champion.

Arlington seemed to be playing like the team of old, as opposed to the team that has struggled through the Fall. Rumor is that their old coach was back on the sideline for the tournament.

next up is Jeff Cup and Arlington can show what they can really do

In a lower flight. If they did not get the top flight in wags, they will not get the top flight at Jeff cup. They could be 4-5 flights down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the tournament?

In the highly discussed U12 group, Loudoun and Arlington tied atop their bracket, forcing a 7:45am shootout, which Arlington won 4-3. Arlington thus won the bracket and played McLean. Loudoun played A3 Arsenal to a draw in a very taut physical game. Arsenal is a very long athletic team, and almost found a way through, but ultimately the game went to a shootout. Tied after 5, they shot ones, until Loudon buried one and Arsenal's kick went wide. Arlington beat McLean 2-1, in a game that didn't seem that close, with the only McLean goal coming off a pretty poorly called penalty.

In the Final, Loudoun out-hustled Arlington in the first half going up 2-0. Arlington fought back in the second half, and had multiple scoring chances, but couldn't seem to put their foot on it. Loudoun was unable to create a shot in the second half. Hard fought game, but Loudoun made the most of their opportunities and Arlington did not. Loudoun is the deserving champion.

Arlington seemed to be playing like the team of old, as opposed to the team that has struggled through the Fall. Rumor is that their old coach was back on the sideline for the tournament.

next up is Jeff Cup and Arlington can show what they can really do

Anonymous wrote:How the tournament?

In the highly discussed U12 group, Loudoun and Arlington tied atop their bracket, forcing a 7:45am shootout, which Arlington won 4-3. Arlington thus won the bracket and played McLean. Loudoun played A3 Arsenal to a draw in a very taut physical game. Arsenal is a very long athletic team, and almost found a way through, but ultimately the game went to a shootout. Tied after 5, they shot ones, until Loudon buried one and Arsenal's kick went wide. Arlington beat McLean 2-1, in a game that didn't seem that close, with the only McLean goal coming off a pretty poorly called penalty.

In the Final, Loudoun out-hustled Arlington in the first half going up 2-0. Arlington fought back in the second half, and had multiple scoring chances, but couldn't seem to put their foot on it. Loudoun was unable to create a shot in the second half. Hard fought game, but Loudoun made the most of their opportunities and Arlington did not. Loudoun is the deserving champion.

Arlington seemed to be playing like the team of old, as opposed to the team that has struggled through the Fall. Rumor is that their old coach was back on the sideline for the tournament.