Anonymous wrote:

I am currently pursuing a much better paying career position to be able to pay

He doesn't have the money

This is about money folks!

Anonymous wrote:OP, regarding your original post, I suspect that this is a problem NOW because you don't want to pay for college

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here.

Anonymous wrote:I think she already knows that your relationship is transactional.

That's not how I see it, and frankly that's not how it is from me. If that's what she thinks then screw it. I am here bending over backwards to connect with her even just a LITTLE. I am patient, compassionate, and have provided her with everything she needs and beyond. All I have ever asked for is to be treated with kindness and included.

That's the point OP- parenting is the only relationship you will ever have where you have to give, you have to put your kid first, you have to do your best, and you can't walk away -- *even when it's not mutual.* It is the flipping definition of parenting.

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of boo hoo, and magical thinking, and Op weaving a tale.

I'm guessing there's a history of ducking his responsibilities
- creatively

Anonymous wrote:Op here.

Anonymous wrote:I think she already knows that your relationship is transactional.

That's not how I see it, and frankly that's not how it is from me. If that's what she thinks then screw it. I am here bending over backwards to connect with her even just a LITTLE. I am patient, compassionate, and have provided her with everything she needs and beyond. All I have ever asked for is to be treated with kindness and included.

Anonymous wrote:I think she already knows that your relationship is transactional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP...[b]

Anonymous wrote:At seventeen, I would pay for college as planned because she's your daughter. Focus on launching her out of the house. She's almost an adult who is currently an unpleasant person- the hands on parenting to teach respect and kindness is over and the chips will fall where they may.

She may learn lessons after a boyfriend dumps her or friends desert her. She may get to college and be humbled by a strict professor. She may really need someone and have to rely on the relationships she's built vs. family obligation. She may grow up, and there's plenty of time, but at this stage the lessons aren't going to come from you.

You make excellent points and I appreciate your input. I am generally feeling like I will carry the cost, but I just can't get to a place where I will do it blindly with no conditions. I truly think conditions on something like this are reasonable because it says something about your self respect.

At this point I'm not really talking about the outbursts and anger, it's the ignoring and excluding me and comments (from my OP) like:

“You don’t need to know anything about my college because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

The underlying attitude and meaning behind that is what troubles me most. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the responses - this is very helpful.

OP, pp here-- you're kind of a day late and a dollar short on this one. Either your DD does not naturally tend toward kind/respectful behavior, in which case serious consequences should have been implemented years ago, so matters never reached this point-- or she requires some outside help for emotional regulation or personal trauma that she's having, which should have been addressed years ago.

Withholding college support now only helps you to deal with your own feelings--I can't see where it's anything but harmful to your DD and it probably destroy any chance of a relationship that you can build later.

He isn't withholding college. She can go on financial aide or loans or go to community college or work at a job where the employer helps. There are lots of options BUT he has a right to know what is going on if he's paying.

No, the way I read it, he's putting conditions on college payment that have nothing to do with performance. Listen, I'm a strict parent (not perfect) parent when it comes to behavioral standards- the key is to start young, be consistent, and seek outside help if it's not working. He's got a DD who worked her butt off to be competitive for Ivy-- not a community college or job at Starbucks where they might help with tuition.

Her behavior is appalling, but it has never (as far as I can tell in the thread) been tied to college support until she reaches the end zone? That's not how you parent-- nope.

I have this happen with my much younger DS- he gets his screen time if he does his homework, so he drags his feet, acts terrible (he also has emotional regulation issues) and generally makes it a miserable experience for our household -- but I've learned. If I expect him to be cooperative and nice, I have to set that expectation in advance-- otherwise he gets his screen time.

So, you are ok with your child demanding how much you make, how much you have in savings and how much you will pay without you seeing any of the college applications or paperwork or knowing what is going on? Child demands $40K a year with no accountability and you just pay? This isn't about college. This is about the college application process and not being included. Dad sees all paperwork submitted and see's what is owed and then he, mom and child work out how the rest is getting paid (mom contributes, he contributes and daughter contributes summer earnings/loans). This has nothing to do with what you are saying. Mom is losing child support and losing for ways to make up that money. The behavior is not ok. If mom is low income, they are probably just demanding money because she will only use mom's income (or why not show dad). If dad pays he should pay directly to the school and not mom/daughter and do a separate account for money that doesn't go through mom. There is more to the story about why they don't want dad involved with the college process.

That's not what's coming across here- it sounds like OP is emotional over how his DD treats him. Yes, of course he needs to see the paperwork because he could get into a lot of trouble if there is anything inaccurate with regard to his salary--especially for FA or scholarships. If I misunderstood that, then again, my apologies. The whole post seemed highly focused how his DD treats him, other family members, and her general personality issues vs. the practical aspect that he needs to know what the paperwork says.

He is upset over the treatment but the real issue is how the college applications and payment are being handled. He is upset by her behavior but the bigger issue is her not including him in the college application process or letting him see the paperwork which tells me based off our experience that they are hiding something from him. Wouldn't you be upset if your child demanded your income information and asked for a blank check without telling you the information and need? Would you just freely hand over money without knowing or seeing? As a step-parent, no. As a parent, absolutely not. If my child acted like that. They would not be getting any money from us even though we have set aside money for college.

I am currently pursuing a much better paying career position to be able to pay

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP...[b]

Anonymous wrote:At seventeen, I would pay for college as planned because she's your daughter. Focus on launching her out of the house. She's almost an adult who is currently an unpleasant person- the hands on parenting to teach respect and kindness is over and the chips will fall where they may.

She may learn lessons after a boyfriend dumps her or friends desert her. She may get to college and be humbled by a strict professor. She may really need someone and have to rely on the relationships she's built vs. family obligation. She may grow up, and there's plenty of time, but at this stage the lessons aren't going to come from you.

You make excellent points and I appreciate your input. I am generally feeling like I will carry the cost, but I just can't get to a place where I will do it blindly with no conditions. I truly think conditions on something like this are reasonable because it says something about your self respect.

At this point I'm not really talking about the outbursts and anger, it's the ignoring and excluding me and comments (from my OP) like:

“You don’t need to know anything about my college because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

The underlying attitude and meaning behind that is what troubles me most. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the responses - this is very helpful.

OP, pp here-- you're kind of a day late and a dollar short on this one. Either your DD does not naturally tend toward kind/respectful behavior, in which case serious consequences should have been implemented years ago, so matters never reached this point-- or she requires some outside help for emotional regulation or personal trauma that she's having, which should have been addressed years ago.

Withholding college support now only helps you to deal with your own feelings--I can't see where it's anything but harmful to your DD and it probably destroy any chance of a relationship that you can build later.

He isn't withholding college. She can go on financial aide or loans or go to community college or work at a job where the employer helps. There are lots of options BUT he has a right to know what is going on if he's paying.

No, the way I read it, he's putting conditions on college payment that have nothing to do with performance. Listen, I'm a strict parent (not perfect) parent when it comes to behavioral standards- the key is to start young, be consistent, and seek outside help if it's not working. He's got a DD who worked her butt off to be competitive for Ivy-- not a community college or job at Starbucks where they might help with tuition.

Her behavior is appalling, but it has never (as far as I can tell in the thread) been tied to college support until she reaches the end zone? That's not how you parent-- nope.

I have this happen with my much younger DS- he gets his screen time if he does his homework, so he drags his feet, acts terrible (he also has emotional regulation issues) and generally makes it a miserable experience for our household -- but I've learned. If I expect him to be cooperative and nice, I have to set that expectation in advance-- otherwise he gets his screen time.

So, you are ok with your child demanding how much you make, how much you have in savings and how much you will pay without you seeing any of the college applications or paperwork or knowing what is going on? Child demands $40K a year with no accountability and you just pay? This isn't about college. This is about the college application process and not being included. Dad sees all paperwork submitted and see's what is owed and then he, mom and child work out how the rest is getting paid (mom contributes, he contributes and daughter contributes summer earnings/loans). This has nothing to do with what you are saying. Mom is losing child support and losing for ways to make up that money. The behavior is not ok. If mom is low income, they are probably just demanding money because she will only use mom's income (or why not show dad). If dad pays he should pay directly to the school and not mom/daughter and do a separate account for money that doesn't go through mom. There is more to the story about why they don't want dad involved with the college process.

That's not what's coming across here- it sounds like OP is emotional over how his DD treats him. Yes, of course he needs to see the paperwork because he could get into a lot of trouble if there is anything inaccurate with regard to his salary--especially for FA or scholarships. If I misunderstood that, then again, my apologies. The whole post seemed highly focused how his DD treats him, other family members, and her general personality issues vs. the practical aspect that he needs to know what the paperwork says.

Anonymous wrote:I think you really have two separate things to discuss with your DD and would probably try to address them at separate times. The college conversation can be completely separate from the behavior/kindness/respect conversation. Both are important, but approaching them together makes it seem like one is dependent on the other and allows a teen to tune out and/or focus on just one part of what you are saying.

As a step-parent I have some advice to help with the college conversations. You need to recognize your DDs feelings that it is overwhelming and exhausting to have the "same" conversation with both your ex and you. Figure out some ways together to limit the repeat conversations for her. My DH and his ex had a weekly 20 minute call where they caught up on where things stood in the process, this helped avoid both parents asking her for updates, other families I know had the call with all three. Also, you and your ex need to come to some agreements about how things regarding college will be handled and clearly communicate these to DD. Do not put DD in the middle, do not ask her what her mom said- clearly decide how things that need parental support will be handled. Our system was that DD asked for support with apps/essays when she wanted. Both parents attended any college conversations at the HS or met with the school counselor.

We also found we had to limit college conversations initiated by us. So try not to ask, maybe establish a regular check in with your DD see what she needs, if there are schools she wants to visit, if she needs money for applications, if she's registered for SAT. Again- only ask what you don't already know from talking to mom. Be present and available to help with out nagging (a REALLY tall order).

Anonymous wrote:

As far as the other pieces, I personally would try have the conversations about what she means to you, being there for her and your expectations for kindness and respect in your house first. Bring up the desire for doing counseling together but don't insist on it, just put the offer out there for when she is ready.

Then, once this is out of the way, the college conversations may be easier to have. Plus, it may give you and your ex a chance to come up with a beginning strategy for supporting DD through the process as a united team as opposed to working against each other. You two really have to be the adults here and put your differences aside.

Good luck, parenting a teen applying to colleges isn't easy for anyone and it's especially difficult with shared custody. Summary-- work on relationships first, college second...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP...[b]

Anonymous wrote:At seventeen, I would pay for college as planned because she's your daughter. Focus on launching her out of the house. She's almost an adult who is currently an unpleasant person- the hands on parenting to teach respect and kindness is over and the chips will fall where they may.

She may learn lessons after a boyfriend dumps her or friends desert her. She may get to college and be humbled by a strict professor. She may really need someone and have to rely on the relationships she's built vs. family obligation. She may grow up, and there's plenty of time, but at this stage the lessons aren't going to come from you.

You make excellent points and I appreciate your input. I am generally feeling like I will carry the cost, but I just can't get to a place where I will do it blindly with no conditions. I truly think conditions on something like this are reasonable because it says something about your self respect.

At this point I'm not really talking about the outbursts and anger, it's the ignoring and excluding me and comments (from my OP) like:

“You don’t need to know anything about my college because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

The underlying attitude and meaning behind that is what troubles me most. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the responses - this is very helpful.

OP, pp here-- you're kind of a day late and a dollar short on this one. Either your DD does not naturally tend toward kind/respectful behavior, in which case serious consequences should have been implemented years ago, so matters never reached this point-- or she requires some outside help for emotional regulation or personal trauma that she's having, which should have been addressed years ago.

Withholding college support now only helps you to deal with your own feelings--I can't see where it's anything but harmful to your DD and it probably destroy any chance of a relationship that you can build later.

He isn't withholding college. She can go on financial aide or loans or go to community college or work at a job where the employer helps. There are lots of options BUT he has a right to know what is going on if he's paying.

No, the way I read it, he's putting conditions on college payment that have nothing to do with performance. Listen, I'm a strict parent (not perfect) parent when it comes to behavioral standards- the key is to start young, be consistent, and seek outside help if it's not working. He's got a DD who worked her butt off to be competitive for Ivy-- not a community college or job at Starbucks where they might help with tuition.

Her behavior is appalling, but it has never (as far as I can tell in the thread) been tied to college support until she reaches the end zone? That's not how you parent-- nope.

I have this happen with my much younger DS- he gets his screen time if he does his homework, so he drags his feet, acts terrible (he also has emotional regulation issues) and generally makes it a miserable experience for our household -- but I've learned. If I expect him to be cooperative and nice, I have to set that expectation in advance-- otherwise he gets his screen time.

So, you are ok with your child demanding how much you make, how much you have in savings and how much you will pay without you seeing any of the college applications or paperwork or knowing what is going on? Child demands $40K a year with no accountability and you just pay? This isn't about college. This is about the college application process and not being included. Dad sees all paperwork submitted and see's what is owed and then he, mom and child work out how the rest is getting paid (mom contributes, he contributes and daughter contributes summer earnings/loans). This has nothing to do with what you are saying. Mom is losing child support and losing for ways to make up that money. The behavior is not ok. If mom is low income, they are probably just demanding money because she will only use mom's income (or why not show dad). If dad pays he should pay directly to the school and not mom/daughter and do a separate account for money that doesn't go through mom. There is more to the story about why they don't want dad involved with the college process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP...[b]

Anonymous wrote:At seventeen, I would pay for college as planned because she's your daughter. Focus on launching her out of the house. She's almost an adult who is currently an unpleasant person- the hands on parenting to teach respect and kindness is over and the chips will fall where they may.

She may learn lessons after a boyfriend dumps her or friends desert her. She may get to college and be humbled by a strict professor. She may really need someone and have to rely on the relationships she's built vs. family obligation. She may grow up, and there's plenty of time, but at this stage the lessons aren't going to come from you.

You make excellent points and I appreciate your input. I am generally feeling like I will carry the cost, but I just can't get to a place where I will do it blindly with no conditions. I truly think conditions on something like this are reasonable because it says something about your self respect.

At this point I'm not really talking about the outbursts and anger, it's the ignoring and excluding me and comments (from my OP) like:

“You don’t need to know anything about my college because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

The underlying attitude and meaning behind that is what troubles me most. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the responses - this is very helpful.

OP, pp here-- you're kind of a day late and a dollar short on this one. Either your DD does not naturally tend toward kind/respectful behavior, in which case serious consequences should have been implemented years ago, so matters never reached this point-- or she requires some outside help for emotional regulation or personal trauma that she's having, which should have been addressed years ago.

Withholding college support now only helps you to deal with your own feelings--I can't see where it's anything but harmful to your DD and it probably destroy any chance of a relationship that you can build later.

He isn't withholding college. She can go on financial aide or loans or go to community college or work at a job where the employer helps. There are lots of options BUT he has a right to know what is going on if he's paying.

No, the way I read it, he's putting conditions on college payment that have nothing to do with performance. Listen, I'm a strict parent (not perfect) parent when it comes to behavioral standards- the key is to start young, be consistent, and seek outside help if it's not working. He's got a DD who worked her butt off to be competitive for Ivy-- not a community college or job at Starbucks where they might help with tuition.

Her behavior is appalling, but it has never (as far as I can tell in the thread) been tied to college support until she reaches the end zone? That's not how you parent-- nope.

I have this happen with my much younger DS- he gets his screen time if he does his homework, so he drags his feet, acts terrible (he also has emotional regulation issues) and generally makes it a miserable experience for our household -- but I've learned. If I expect him to be cooperative and nice, I have to set that expectation in advance-- otherwise he gets his screen time.

So, you are ok with your child demanding how much you make, how much you have in savings and how much you will pay without you seeing any of the college applications or paperwork or knowing what is going on? Child demands $40K a year with no accountability and you just pay? This isn't about college. This is about the college application process and not being included. Dad sees all paperwork submitted and see's what is owed and then he, mom and child work out how the rest is getting paid (mom contributes, he contributes and daughter contributes summer earnings/loans). This has nothing to do with what you are saying. Mom is losing child support and losing for ways to make up that money. The behavior is not ok. If mom is low income, they are probably just demanding money because she will only use mom's income (or why not show dad). If dad pays he should pay directly to the school and not mom/daughter and do a separate account for money that doesn't go through mom. There is more to the story about why they don't want dad involved with the college process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP...[b]

Anonymous wrote:At seventeen, I would pay for college as planned because she's your daughter. Focus on launching her out of the house. She's almost an adult who is currently an unpleasant person- the hands on parenting to teach respect and kindness is over and the chips will fall where they may.

She may learn lessons after a boyfriend dumps her or friends desert her. She may get to college and be humbled by a strict professor. She may really need someone and have to rely on the relationships she's built vs. family obligation. She may grow up, and there's plenty of time, but at this stage the lessons aren't going to come from you.

You make excellent points and I appreciate your input. I am generally feeling like I will carry the cost, but I just can't get to a place where I will do it blindly with no conditions. I truly think conditions on something like this are reasonable because it says something about your self respect.

At this point I'm not really talking about the outbursts and anger, it's the ignoring and excluding me and comments (from my OP) like:

“You don’t need to know anything about my college because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

The underlying attitude and meaning behind that is what troubles me most. Thanks again and I really appreciate all the responses - this is very helpful.

OP, pp here-- you're kind of a day late and a dollar short on this one. Either your DD does not naturally tend toward kind/respectful behavior, in which case serious consequences should have been implemented years ago, so matters never reached this point-- or she requires some outside help for emotional regulation or personal trauma that she's having, which should have been addressed years ago.

Withholding college support now only helps you to deal with your own feelings--I can't see where it's anything but harmful to your DD and it probably destroy any chance of a relationship that you can build later.

He isn't withholding college. She can go on financial aide or loans or go to community college or work at a job where the employer helps. There are lots of options BUT he has a right to know what is going on if he's paying.

No, the way I read it, he's putting conditions on college payment that have nothing to do with performance. Listen, I'm a strict parent (not perfect) parent when it comes to behavioral standards- the key is to start young, be consistent, and seek outside help if it's not working. He's got a DD who worked her butt off to be competitive for Ivy-- not a community college or job at Starbucks where they might help with tuition.

Her behavior is appalling, but it has never (as far as I can tell in the thread) been tied to college support until she reaches the end zone? That's not how you parent-- nope.

I have this happen with my much younger DS- he gets his screen time if he does his homework, so he drags his feet, acts terrible (he also has emotional regulation issues) and generally makes it a miserable experience for our household -- but I've learned. If I expect him to be cooperative and nice, I have to set that expectation in advance-- otherwise he gets his screen time.