Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No sh*t Sherlock. But lawyers are the ones who, you know, represent your interests to get the court and police to enforce the judgement. I don't buy for a second that PP's wife literally never, ever complied with the custody agreement and only let him have phone calls for 10 years, while presumably still paying child support. That makes zero sense. He had bad lawyers, gave up, or is lying/exaggerating.

Child of divorce. My mom totally cut my dad off from any contact with us. No meetings, no phone calls, she tore up letters he wrote. It happens. Am I lying too?

You're not lying, but your dad could have done much more to stay in touch with you. Sorry. I would fight to my very last penny if my DH were to cut off contact with my kid. Unless he somehow bribed judges or fled the country, there's no way he'd be able to do that and not be held accountable. This isn't to say that courts always work, but there's a lot you can do if you truly want to.

Hmmmm it can be hard for the Dad's just to find the kids. My girlfriend moved around every year or so to avoid bio Dad with no forwarding address. Kid was very young.

skip tracing isn't hard at all. do you honestly thing moms would let it go? no, we would hire a PI.

edited to add dads too. my stbx is a d*ck but he would move heaven and earth if I tried to take our kid away.

Anonymous wrote:PP with all caps, I don't know what to tell you - I can't compete with voices in your head. No one is shaming or judging divorced people. There is no stigma in divorce. Like none.

The OP wanted to know what life is like post-divorce. Remember, she asked. I told her how to get a realistic picture of what it will be like. She alone knows how the math works. Maybe you'd prefer a "you go girl!" but I don't think that's good advice.

how can you say it's not good advice without knowing any particulars? It's absurd to claim that taking out the trash should be the price of a lifetime of misery for you and your entire household. You just sound increasingly clueless and paternalistic. If you want to talk about your OWN divorce regrets with some detail, we are all ears. meanwhile stop with the stupid assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No sh*t Sherlock. But lawyers are the ones who, you know, represent your interests to get the court and police to enforce the judgement. I don't buy for a second that PP's wife literally never, ever complied with the custody agreement and only let him have phone calls for 10 years, while presumably still paying child support. That makes zero sense. He had bad lawyers, gave up, or is lying/exaggerating.

Child of divorce. My mom totally cut my dad off from any contact with us. No meetings, no phone calls, she tore up letters he wrote. It happens. Am I lying too?

You're not lying, but your dad could have done much more to stay in touch with you. Sorry. I would fight to my very last penny if my DH were to cut off contact with my kid. Unless he somehow bribed judges or fled the country, there's no way he'd be able to do that and not be held accountable. This isn't to say that courts always work, but there's a lot you can do if you truly want to.

Hmmmm it can be hard for the Dad's just to find the kids. My girlfriend moved around every year or so to avoid bio Dad with no forwarding address. Kid was very young.

skip tracing isn't hard at all. do you honestly thing moms would let it go? no, we would hire a PI.

I get why everyone waits till kids are older, however, just know that even at older ages it can have an affect on your relationship. When my parents divorced, I was in college. It forever affected my relationship with my dad. He's the one that did the walking and I don't think I ever really got past that.

I got divorced 20 years ago after 25 years married. I'll tell you what it's like, it's great. My husband wasn't all that bad but I knew it was time for a divorce. I did wait until my kids were both out of high school so I did not experience, or force them to experience, the trauma of divorce with young kids. Good luck OP.

PP with all caps, I don't know what to tell you - I can't compete with voices in your head. No one is shaming or judging divorced people. There is no stigma in divorce. Like none.

The OP wanted to know what life is like post-divorce. Remember, she asked. I told her how to get a realistic picture of what it will be like. She alone knows how the math works. Maybe you'd prefer a "you go girl!" but I don't think that's good advice.

I was married for 24 years. It was a relief and a shock at the same time. My kids were older. They seemed to understand.

Everyday gets easier. I have no plans to remarry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No sh*t Sherlock. But lawyers are the ones who, you know, represent your interests to get the court and police to enforce the judgement. I don't buy for a second that PP's wife literally never, ever complied with the custody agreement and only let him have phone calls for 10 years, while presumably still paying child support. That makes zero sense. He had bad lawyers, gave up, or is lying/exaggerating.

Child of divorce. My mom totally cut my dad off from any contact with us. No meetings, no phone calls, she tore up letters he wrote. It happens. Am I lying too?

You're not lying, but your dad could have done much more to stay in touch with you. Sorry. I would fight to my very last penny if my DH were to cut off contact with my kid. Unless he somehow bribed judges or fled the country, there's no way he'd be able to do that and not be held accountable. This isn't to say that courts always work, but there's a lot you can do if you truly want to.

Hmmmm it can be hard for the Dad's just to find the kids. My girlfriend moved around every year or so to avoid bio Dad with no forwarding address. Kid was very young.

^ Brava!!!
Not sure where that universe of feeble minded women with perpetually messed up kids exists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

PP here. I think you vastly underestimate people who are serious considering divorce, going through one, or have already been divorced. You really think a lot of people don’t think about the things you are saying? Well, guess what? Your line of thinking and the divorce shaming/stigma is what keeps people in miserable marriages far longer than they should be. Wasting time. Wasting energy. Leading a joyless life.
For what? So their husband can take out the trash and bring a paycheck? Are you kidding me? That is not enough to save a marriage or not even enough to even be married.
So, here, I will take your little test just for fun to prove how ridiculous it is—I am responding in CAPS so you can see my response to your comments (not yelling).
“Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.”
—I LITERALLY DO NOT KNOW ONE WOMAN THIS NAÏVE.
Does he take out the trash? SOMETIMES, I USUALLY DO IT
Carry your heavy bags? NO
Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? NOT FOR 7 YEARS, AND I CAN HIRE A BABYSITTER AND WOULD HAVE MORE TIME WITH 50/50 CUSTODY
Replaces AC filter? AFTER I NAG, SURE. I CAN DO IT MYSELF.
Takes the car to the shop? NO, I DO IT
Brings money? YES, BUT SO DO I SO THAT IS NOT THAT RELEVANT. HE MAKES MORE BUT WHO CARES?
Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money. I AM BASICALLY DOING THAT ANYWAY. WHY WOULD ANYONE STAY MARRIED FOR THESE MINOR “BENEFITS”?
Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?
I DO NOT CARE WHO HE SCREWS AROUND WITH, WHO HE DATES, IF HE REMARRIES. GOOD FOR HIM. I HAVE NOT CARED IN MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.
Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".
HE HAS LITERALLY NEVER SAID OR THOUGHT THAT ("she's my wife after all") IN THE MARRIAGE. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE ON THAT FRONT.

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.
I DO NOT EXPECT ANOTHER MAN TO THINK THAT, BUT GUESS WHAT? I AM NOT INTRODUCING ANY MAN TO MY KIDS OR REMARRYING. I AM PERSONALLY FINE BEING CASUAL ON MY NON-KIND TIME. AND MY STEP-GRANDFATHER LOVED MY FATHER LIKE HIS OWN SON—SO THERE ARE CAPABLE MEN OUT THERE—IF THAT IS WHAT SOMEONE WANTS. IT’S POSSIBLE. BUT NOT EVERYONE IS THINKING ABOUT DATING. THEY WANT TO BE SINGLE—NOT MARRIED.

I am so tired of the divorce shaming. Most people who are divorcing are so beyond these ridiculous things you mention. News flash: we have thought about these things. Our problems are so much bigger. And these tiny little things would not make any difference in the world. I assure you that many of us have thought about life realistically post-divorce for YEARS and often feel like we have waited too long because of other people's judgment...exactly like yours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

NP, and you're completely discounting the relief of not having to live in an utterly miserable situation, in a home that feels, at best, completely uncomfortable, and at worst, completely unsafe. You're not counting the enormous amounts of time and energy spent on a miserable marriage, instead of on parenting children or taking care of oneself. The financial burden is real, but to stay in an awful situation because your partner takes out the trash? Or takes the car to the shop? There's a lot to be said for living a daily life that allows you to exist without constant stress.

Not every marriage where partners contemplate divorce is miserable or unsafe or awful. Stress is a part of life, and no life is completely free of stress. All I suggest is to be completely, unflinchingly realistic about life post-divorce. The good and the bad. Chances are that the spouse you want to leave behind doesn't just bring bad things to your life, they bring something good too, something good that you may be overlooking in your angst.

Well said.

Nope, when I initiated my divorce, I did a quick accounting in my head, and whatever good my spouse brought into the marriage, didn’t even compare to what a drain it was on me. A trickle in, a waterfall out.

Anonymous wrote:

lol. you know what would definitely shorten my lifespan? Staying with my STBX. Not to mention it would destroy my quality of life, which is important too. Do you think people who divorce can't do basic math?

This is what selfish people who don't care about their kids always say.

Did your spouse dump you? Good for them!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

NP, and you're completely discounting the relief of not having to live in an utterly miserable situation, in a home that feels, at best, completely uncomfortable, and at worst, completely unsafe. You're not counting the enormous amounts of time and energy spent on a miserable marriage, instead of on parenting children or taking care of oneself. The financial burden is real, but to stay in an awful situation because your partner takes out the trash? Or takes the car to the shop? There's a lot to be said for living a daily life that allows you to exist without constant stress.

Not every marriage where partners contemplate divorce is miserable or unsafe or awful. Stress is a part of life, and no life is completely free of stress. All I suggest is to be completely, unflinchingly realistic about life post-divorce. The good and the bad. Chances are that the spouse you want to leave behind doesn't just bring bad things to your life, they bring something good too, something good that you may be overlooking in your angst.

Well said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wife wanted divorce and here is what it looks like 10 year out...

1. kids are REALLY messed up:
Daughter went from talking about being a doctor pre-divorce to a suicidal cutter in therapy with low self esteem at about the 5 year mark.
Son who participated in MATHCOUTS and went to a STEM focus high school refused to take the SATs or fill out applications for college got fired from his summer job and is just working at fast food and still doesn't have a drivers license.

2. Years spent in court.
Ex decided to break custody agreement and not allow me to have access and possession of the kids.
Several years of being in court and "winning" only to have her NEVER comply with the court orders and NEVER get any sanctions. I haven't had access to my kids except on the phone for about 5 years. I believe this is a major factor in the kids outcomes.

3. Financially it was devastating. I earn in the top 5% so I'm not doing well by DCUM standards. I'll never be able to retire.

4. It also upended my career and I'm earning less money than pre-divorce. Post divorce I took a job without travel and allows me to work at home so that I could have access and possession of my kids. See item 2 above so this didn't help.

5. As for dating, I didn't date for about 1.5 years. The first 9 months I was very upset and depressed. I think that it took several years to start to heal but I miss my kids EVERY SINGLE DAY.

6. I did date and re-marry at about the 7-8 year mark. I think that if I had not been so damaged by the divorce I would have had much more "fun" in the dating market but simply was not in the dating mindset much of the time. There were too many other worries and concerns. When I did date/marry I married someone that is taller, thinner, younger, and prettier than my ex so there is that...

There were a few never married AND divorced women that lost interest after finding out that I was divorced. They were usually concerned about dealing with and ex but MORE PARTICULARLY concerned about child support payment obligations. There was also a few that were stepping out into the dating pool but never really jumped in because of their own kid obligations. Bottom line is that people say they love kids but the truth is that they love their own kids not other peoples kids.


In conclusion: because OP is already talking about dating as she is considering divorce it looks like she has bought into the divorce lie hook, line, and sinker...

Can you say more about why you did not retain competent legal counsel to enforce the court orders?

I did retain competent legal counsel and paid a lot of money for it. The judge actually stated in open court that he is unwilling to sanction a single mother. Its bad optics for an elected official. Unless you have been a father in family court you can not relate to my experience.

This wouldn't happen in DC or Montgomery County. I've seen the judge's there generally will give the father a good deal more time, if not full 50-50.

You missed the point. Even if Dad's get a good visitation/custody agreement, if the Mom chooses NOT to allow the kids to visit, there are no consequences but to tell her to send the kids. Even if she doesn't have a good reason. Its rare a judge will change custody to a father over visitation reasons and usually it just drags out in court and then the kids get old enough to tell the judge they don't want to see Dad per mom's wishes and that is the end of it. The only time there are consequences, and not always, is if child support is not paid. My husband went to court many times and not once were consequences given to his ex. They threatened him for not paying child support but luckily that was worked out to his favor as he had a huge overpayment because she did multiple garnishments but even then, the court did not make her reimburse the overpayments that were her fault or for lying saying he wasn't paying child support. Nor, did they force her to reimburse him for attorney fees, air fare, etc.

So reading between the lines, he moved a plan flight away?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

NP, and you're completely discounting the relief of not having to live in an utterly miserable situation, in a home that feels, at best, completely uncomfortable, and at worst, completely unsafe. You're not counting the enormous amounts of time and energy spent on a miserable marriage, instead of on parenting children or taking care of oneself. The financial burden is real, but to stay in an awful situation because your partner takes out the trash? Or takes the car to the shop? There's a lot to be said for living a daily life that allows you to exist without constant stress.

Not every marriage where partners contemplate divorce is miserable or unsafe or awful. Stress is a part of life, and no life is completely free of stress. All I suggest is to be completely, unflinchingly realistic about life post-divorce. The good and the bad. Chances are that the spouse you want to leave behind doesn't just bring bad things to your life, they bring something good too, something good that you may be overlooking in your angst.

Thanks Dr. Phil. As if those of us actually on the road to divorce haven't given it any thought. I mean yeah if someone wants to divorce because they had one fight or are mildly stressed, that's messed up. My STBX takes out the trash, I will readily admit, but I am perfectly happy to do that as the price of freedom.