Old news.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

Were they first generation Americans rather than first one in their family to go to college?

Google is your friend.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1st+generation+definition+college&oq=1st+generation+definition+college&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.19172j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

If google is a friend, why weren't the admissions/financial aid office googling those parents and finding their linkedin accounts?

I highly doubt there are this cabal of 1st generation kids whose parents divorced them to get free college.

100k income no financial aid this is what happens

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

Were they first generation Americans rather than first one in their family to go to college?

Google is your friend.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1st+generation+definition+college&oq=1st+generation+definition+college&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.19172j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

If google is a friend, why weren't the admissions/financial aid office googling those parents and finding their linkedin accounts?

I highly doubt there are this cabal of 1st generation kids whose parents divorced them to get free college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

Were they first generation Americans rather than first one in their family to go to college?

Google is your friend.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1st+generation+definition+college&oq=1st+generation+definition+college&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.19172j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

If google is a friend, why weren't the admissions/financial aid office googling those parents and finding their linkedin accounts?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

Were they first generation Americans rather than first one in their family to go to college?

Google is your friend.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1st+generation+definition+college&oq=1st+generation+definition+college&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.19172j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did the FAFSA rules change re counting parental income if you were no longer dependent on your parents? Meaning living on your own, working, paying for your own at expenses at 18+.

You’re independent at 24 or if in grad school. It has been that way for a long time.

In the early 200s when I was in grad and undergrad, I was independent at 18. I lived on my own, paid my own insurance, worked, and went to school. I received grants and loans. Parental income was never required as I was independent. It sounds like today, you can be 18 and living on your own with no support from your parents and still not be considered independent.

No, you're misremembering. In 2000, independence was still 24 and above. The policy was still that a parents unwillingness to pay did not create independence.

https://ifap.ed.gov/sfahandbooks/attachments/sech6-app.pdf

Lol. You think I’m misremembering that I had parents pay tuition for me that I did not? Sorry sweets, there were clearly exceptions allowed. I worked FT afternoons/evenings/weekends and made between 13-19k during those years. No parental income was required by GMU’s financial aid office. I didn’t even know where my parents were to have asked them to provide their income. Things clearly weren’t as black and white as you claim they were.

Backing you up. A bit earlier, about 1994-95, my friend established her independence by being on her own, working, paying taxes, renting for 2 years after high school. No one went after her parents. That was in MA.

why don't you look at the actual official document I posted, which relates to 2000, and states in black and white that independence starts at 24 for undergrad, for federal aid?

the current definition of "independent student" as starting at 24 has been around for over a generation. it's not the source of our current issues with college costs.

So PP who do you think paid for my last two years of college in 2000 and 2001?

Well, produce your FAFSA and financial aid paperwork, and I'll tell you what your eligiblity status was. All I can say is that the official policy (dating from the 1992 reauthorization of the Higher Education Act) was that you were not independent until 24. Obviously this doesn't mean that your parents actually paid anything. I think you're likely confused between your parents' EFC and your dependency status.

There have always been exceptions for children who spent time in the foster care system or were otherwise legally emancipated. Not sure if any of that applies to the PP, though.

I wasn’t legally emancipated because the costs didn’t outweigh the benefits for the 6 month period of living on my own and being 18. Maybe the school considered me to be based on my situation. As you say, there have always been exceptions.

PP is an idiot and can keep arguing that there was no way that students were deemed to be independent before 24 and she’ll keep being wrong. Clearly George Mason had a way to provide Federal Pell grants and subsidized loans to people like me. To refresh her memory - students living on their own, working and paying all expenses. There is no parental tax forms to provide when you don’t know where your parents are.

And do you have records for 17 years? I certainly don’t store items for longer than needed. I can’t imagine what your house looks like.

You can keep pretending that you know everything or you can actually acknowledge that not everything is as black and white as you believe. Schools clearly have a way to help students in need. Thank god you weren’t my student aid officer. I see now how much a blessing is was to work with someone who had a heart AND a brain.

ok, it's your word against the words of the Higher Education Act and the official 2000-2001 Federal Student Aid handbook issued by the Department of Education.

I invite you to find the LEGAL source that states when the dependency age was set to 24.

And yes, financial aid officers can do a "dependency override," but the FSA handbook makes clear that "parents not willing to pay" is not a criteria. It's for parents in jail, parents unlocatable, etc.

Did you not read the previous post ? The poster clearly stated that they had no idea where their parents were. Pretty sure that made the parents 'unlocatable'. There always have been and always will be exemptions. It sounds like PP's school used the exemption criteria as intended.

No, they didn’t bother to read what I wrote. Otherwise they wouldn’t keep arguing that “my parents just didn’t want to pay”. It doesn’t fit her narrative that the “facts” she has been posting haven’t been 100% accurate. Glad she finally decided to admit that financial aid officers have flexibility. Hopefully other posters see that financial aid isn’t as black and white as has been stated.

The bolded was your original post to a question about the general rules for living independently with no financial support from parents:


When did the FAFSA rules change re counting parental income if you were no longer dependent on your parents? Meaning living on your own, working, paying for your own at expenses at 18+.

You’re independent at 24 or if in grad school. It has been that way for a long time.

In the early 200s when I was in grad and undergrad, I was independent at 18. I lived on my own, paid my own insurance, worked, and went to school. I received grants and loans. Parental income was never required as I was independent. It sounds like today, you can be 18 and living on your own with no support from your parents and still not be considered independent.


Another poster posted the general rule from when you claimed to receive aid for being financially independent, and you challenged that as the general rule without saying something like, "that may be the general rule, but there are exceptions. For me it was not being able to locate my parents." You then continued arguing without disclosing to the poster that you fell in an exception, so the poster rightly kept pointing out that just having parents who won't pay won't make you independent. See who created the confusion?

Yes. You did for making assumptions. Keep going though. I’m sure you have more.

I'm not the poster who kept posting about the rules in 2000. You confused multiple people by your omission of the key factor in your ability to claim independence at 18. This is how rare a dependency override is:

Based on data from the National Postsecondary Student Aid Study (NPSAS), only 14.7% of undergraduate students under age 24 were independent in 2011-12. Of undergraduate students under age 24, 8.3% were independent because they have legal dependents other than a spouse, 3.8% because they were married, 1.1% because they are orphans, 0.5% because they were veterans of the US Armed Forces, 0.3% because they were on active duty with the US Armed Forces and 0.9% because the college financial aid administrator granted a dependency override due to unusual circumstances. (Only 0.5% of all undergraduate students are independent because of a dependency override.) Colleges will not grant a dependency override because the parents refuses to contribute to the student’s education, because the parents refuses to file the FAFSA or complete verification, because the parents do not claim the student as a dependent on their federal income tax returns or because the student is totally self-sufficient. None of these reasons, not even in combination, is sufficient justification for a dependency override. Unusual circumstances may merit a dependency override, which is subject to a case-by-case review by and the professional judgment of the college financial aid administrator. These circumstances include an abusive family environment (e.g., court protection from abuse orders against the parents), abandonment by the parents, or the incarceration, hospitalization or institutionalization of both parents.


The rules about being dependent until age 24 were in place in early 2000s and are in place now. Exceptions were rare then and are rare now. You especially won't get an exemption by failing to disclose that you fall into an exception. If you disclose relevant information upfront, it cuts out a lot of unnecessary issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

Were they first generation Americans rather than first one in their family to go to college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

1) Dept of Ed released a report in 2017 on outcomes for first-generation students. 49% were white. https://www.jbhe.com/2017/10/education-department-releases-racial-data-on-first-generation-college-students/

2) If the scholarships are from their universities, and not an outside group, they would have had to have lie on their college applications, risking expulsion from any university for lying. The Common App requires one to disclose parents occupation and education levels.

Anonymous wrote:Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.

1st generation means you are the 1st to attend college in your family. Yet, you say the parents were lawyers and others in positions that require significant college with advanced degrees.

1st generation, like all FA applicants, have to submit parental documented income, and lawyer salaries would have sent up red flags unless they work for free.
Sorry, but I don't believe you, PP .

I'm surprised it took 8 pages to bring 1st generation into this discussion since, yes, the majority are people of color.

Why is this news????
It’s been happening for quite a while.
In my son’s HRCS, 2 students were able to get considerable scholarships as first generation college students - - one with lawyer parents and the other one with a DCPS administrator mom and a nurse practitioner dad. They were bragging about it in the school. The principal knew about it and went along worn it.