Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

That's your choice. Religiously a child not born to a Jewish mother is not Jewish unless he is converted (a simple process for a baby). Raising him in the traditions would require accepting this view. I don't really see how one can realistically raise a child in a tradition that isn't one's own anyway. My non-Jewish relatives converted, either formally or de factor, before having children, and participate as fully in the Jewish community as my Jewish-born mother (which granted is not a lot -- Mom doesn't have much use for religion!). If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine and no one wants to force you, but equally they're not going to accept your kids as Jewish because they're not Jewish and not being raised as Jewish. And that is fine. The idea isn't to "pass down traditions," it's for Judaism to continue and flourish, and that will only be done by and through Jews.

My "non-Jewish" kid is the grandchild of Holocaust survivors. To call him "not a Jew" is just gross and wrong. But yeah, thanks again for confirming that the prejudice/disdain I feel whenever I try to take some initiative to participate is real. Congratulations on creating one less Jew. So now I will teach him that he is not Jew, and we will guilt-free celebrate Christmas and Easter, and I'll stop making the effort to celebrate Passover.

Happy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

That's your choice. Religiously a child not born to a Jewish mother is not Jewish unless he is converted (a simple process for a baby). Raising him in the traditions would require accepting this view. I don't really see how one can realistically raise a child in a tradition that isn't one's own anyway. My non-Jewish relatives converted, either formally or de factor, before having children, and participate as fully in the Jewish community as my Jewish-born mother (which granted is not a lot -- Mom doesn't have much use for religion!). If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine and no one wants to force you, but equally they're not going to accept your kids as Jewish because they're not Jewish and not being raised as Jewish. And that is fine. The idea isn't to "pass down traditions," it's for Judaism to continue and flourish, and that will only be done by and through Jews.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

I’m not the poster above but he/she is correct. Statistics show that the generations following intermarriage are less observant.

What’s the difference between Donald Trump and a reform Jew? Trump has Jewish grandchildren. And yes, Ivanka is Jewish because she converted.

We all want to be accepting and loving and supportive. However, when it comes to this topic, feelings aren’t fact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

I’m not the poster above but he/she is correct. Statistics show that the generations following intermarriage are less observant.

What’s the difference between Donald Trump and a reform Jew? Trump has Jewish grandchildren. And yes, Ivanka is Jewish because she converted.

We all want to be accepting and loving and supportive. However, when it comes to this topic, feelings aren’t fact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

I waNt to be clear that the first poster here, who thinks she speaks for all Jews, is not.

I don’t think you speak for all Jews either, but I don’t see anything objectionable in what was stated.

I see something objectionable—the denial that this family is insisting she change her identity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s possibly your DD has expressed a willingness to explore conversion. Over 1/2 of the Jewish moms I know were raised another religion but converted before marriage or before the birth of a first child.

Yes, she has asked how I would feel about that and worried we would be unhappy. Not at all. I wonder if his parents would be unhappy if he did marry a convert? We are just glad he’s intelligent and successful and is caring to DD. We are going to to meet him next week. Excited. Any advice?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

I waNt to be clear that the first poster here, who thinks she speaks for all Jews, is not.

I don’t think you speak for all Jews either, but I don’t see anything objectionable in what was stated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

I waNt to be clear that the first poster here, who thinks she speaks for all Jews, is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.