Every time I've gone over my boss's head, I've gotten the promotion. Boss has little to no power to advocate for me and her boss is the one with the real power.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I manage 10-20 people. I look out for my staff, I support and advocate for my staff.

If one of my staff crossed me like that, I would simply stop looking out for them. They would be on their own. I don't have time for people who try to circumvent me. If it was an A+ employee, I might make an effort, but it usually isn't- otherwise they would have gotten the raise.
Once I decide to neglect a staff person, they usually leave in a year or so, which is good for all.

And keep in mind that your boss might be the exact same way. And something you see as advocating for yourself might be viewed by that person as a “betrayal”

You are a not a benevolent ruler watching out and guiding your subjects. You need to lose that mindset fast.
You are a manager of a team proving a work product and at anytime somebody could come along and deem no longer needed.

Btw I am in my 40s and have seen this attitude so many times that I now just sit back and wait for the person to get sacked. Always happens. Always. Because you are focusing on being a ruler of people and not enough on the work and your own value.

+1

You sound like a bad boss. This is not a personal agenda, your staff might need help. They might be getting divorced and *need* that promotion, they might have cancer, and they're trying to be proactive and looking out for themselves. To view them as an adversary and then think them leaving is good for everyone is such a loser attitude.

Anonymous wrote:I manage 10-20 people. I look out for my staff, I support and advocate for my staff.

If one of my staff crossed me like that, I would simply stop looking out for them. They would be on their own. I don't have time for people who try to circumvent me. If it was an A+ employee, I might make an effort, but it usually isn't- otherwise they would have gotten the raise.
Once I decide to neglect a staff person, they usually leave in a year or so, which is good for all.

And keep in mind that your boss might be the exact same way. And something you see as advocating for yourself might be viewed by that person as a “betrayal”

You are a not a benevolent ruler watching out and guiding your subjects. You need to lose that mindset fast.
You are a manager of a team proving a work product and at anytime somebody could come along and deem no longer needed.

Btw I am in my 40s and have seen this attitude so many times that I now just sit back and wait for the person to get sacked. Always happens. Always. Because you are focusing on being a ruler of people and not enough on the work and your own value.

She screwed herself. Never do this unless you are ready to walk out of the door. Your boss will let you know about any promotions.

OP - we have no way of knowing you're a good boss. No way to know this. You say it, but we don't know. Being known as a good boss is not universal, it's subjective. Not everyone can agree on what qualities are most important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think with pissing you off is that you want to be the person who decides who gets promoted, rather than being the advocate for who gets for promoted. In this case it’s good your boss backed you up.

I don’t have an issue with someone advocating for themselves and for their career, and neither should you. Get used to it with younger generations – they don’t respect the chain of command and want to speak on their own behalf. I’m not judging, I am sharing personal experience.

Another one with a wild imagination.

Truth hurts.

I know this is hard for you. You’re proving my point with your responses. Trust me. The faster you get over this and learn to roll with it, the better. The behavior from younger generations is here to stay. They expect access to all levels of an organization. Get comfortable with it. It’s how it’s going to be from now on.

You’re way, way too aggressively and rudely insistent on this. If it’s true, everyone who thinks otherwise will be corrected via experience in due time. Your hostility and condescension is unnecessary.

x1000 At this point I believe that every counter-post is yours, "trust me." News flash: anyone someone says "trust me" you know you're getting sold out. And your antagonism is so off-the-rails that I would be inclined to agree with anything OP says.

It is possible to argue without being hostile and condescending. In fact, my experience is that you'll be more successful in winning an argument by laying out well-defined points rather than hysterical attacks on the other person. You should think about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think with pissing you off is that you want to be the person who decides who gets promoted, rather than being the advocate for who gets for promoted. In this case it’s good your boss backed you up.

I don’t have an issue with someone advocating for themselves and for their career, and neither should you. Get used to it with younger generations – they don’t respect the chain of command and want to speak on their own behalf. I’m not judging, I am sharing personal experience.

Another one with a wild imagination.

Truth hurts.

I know this is hard for you. You’re proving my point with your responses. Trust me. The faster you get over this and learn to roll with it, the better. The behavior from younger generations is here to stay. They expect access to all levels of an organization. Get comfortable with it. It’s how it’s going to be from now on.

You’re way, way too aggressively and rudely insistent on this. If it’s true, everyone who thinks otherwise will be corrected via experience in due time. Your hostility and condescension is unnecessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think with pissing you off is that you want to be the person who decides who gets promoted, rather than being the advocate for who gets for promoted. In this case it’s good your boss backed you up.

I don’t have an issue with someone advocating for themselves and for their career, and neither should you. Get used to it with younger generations – they don’t respect the chain of command and want to speak on their own behalf. I’m not judging, I am sharing personal experience.

Another one with a wild imagination.

Truth hurts.

I know this is hard for you. You’re proving my point with your responses. Trust me. The faster you get over this and learn to roll with it, the better. The behavior from younger generations is here to stay. They expect access to all levels of an organization. Get comfortable with it. It’s how it’s going to be from now on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think with pissing you off is that you want to be the person who decides who gets promoted, rather than being the advocate for who gets for promoted. In this case it’s good your boss backed you up.

I don’t have an issue with someone advocating for themselves and for their career, and neither should you. Get used to it with younger generations – they don’t respect the chain of command and want to speak on their own behalf. I’m not judging, I am sharing personal experience.

Another one with a wild imagination.

Truth hurts.

I manage 10-20 people. I look out for my staff, I support and advocate for my staff.

If one of my staff crossed me like that, I would simply stop looking out for them. They would be on their own. I don't have time for people who try to circumvent me. If it was an A+ employee, I might make an effort, but it usually isn't- otherwise they would have gotten the raise.
Once I decide to neglect a staff person, they usually leave in a year or so, which is good for all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I think with pissing you off is that you want to be the person who decides who gets promoted, rather than being the advocate for who gets for promoted. In this case it’s good your boss backed you up.

I don’t have an issue with someone advocating for themselves and for their career, and neither should you. Get used to it with younger generations – they don’t respect the chain of command and want to speak on their own behalf. I’m not judging, I am sharing personal experience.

Another one with a wild imagination.

Truth hurts.

Anonymous wrote:I think your employee might have thought that 1. you didn't advocate for her or 2. that you're not telling her the real reason why. I don't like it when people say it's not possible now but maybe in 6 months. Why? What changes in 6 months? Be up front. My supervisor hides truths and drops white lies all the time. So I DON'T trust her. If I need a real answer, I find a way to ask her boss.

+1

Plus she admitted that she isn’t the decision maker anyway.

I think your employee might have thought that 1. you didn't advocate for her or 2. that you're not telling her the real reason why. I don't like it when people say it's not possible now but maybe in 6 months. Why? What changes in 6 months? Be up front. My supervisor hides truths and drops white lies all the time. So I DON'T trust her. If I need a real answer, I find a way to ask her boss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm surprised by all of the answers on this thread. The manager did nothing wrong, the employee handled the situation badly.

Personally, I wouldn't say anything, but I probably wouldn't be in a hurry to push the employees case again any time soon.

The employee lost an ally in you.

+1

+2. If one of my subordinates came to me about wanting to have this kind of meeting, I’d be pleased to facilitate it, or if I thought having that kind of meeting was a bad idea, I’d explain why I thought that. If they went behind my back, though, I’d view that as a serious breach of trust and respond accordingly. Respecting chain of command is crucial, and undermining it does not make you some sort of trailblazer. Usually it just means you are a
of a prima donna, and that is good to know. That doesn’t mean not asking for or having the meeting (even insisting on it is defensible) but it does mean not hiding it and giving the boss a heads up is basic corporate etiquette.

You'd be "pleased to facilitate" the meeting? What? Why does she need you to facilitate it? Obviously she doesn't, because she just did it without you. And obviously you'd think your employee going above your head is a bad idea, and you'd tell her so, because your employee being there can only make you look bad. Either the boss agrees with the employee (which sometimes happens) and then you look bad for not recognizing the talent, or the boss thinks the employee shouldn't really be there, in which case you did a bad job of communicating the reasons to the employee.

The only reason you'd want a heads up is to save your own butt by throwing your employee under the bus somehow. No wonder the employee didn't want to mention it.

I'm curious how old you are, though. Nobody under 50 would talk about "facilitating a meeting" with their boss's boss or "respecting chain of command" unless they're in the military or some sort of egomaniac.

You should know that times have changed. Most of the top companies actually encourage this every few months - it's called a skip level.

Good grief. I’m mid-40s and far from a egomaniac. By facilitate I mean help my report ensure the meeting goes well. If you don’t think the kind of meeting where Larla wants to talk to my boss about why she didn’t get a certain opportunity or promotion has the risk of going badly (for Larla, not for me), I’m not sure what to say. I’m also not sure where you are getting the idea that “the only reason” I would want a heads up is “to save my own butt”. Candidly, that sounds like crazy talk. Do you manage anyone? That seems to me a pretty bizarre and adversarial way to look at the issue.

While I appreciate the education on what a “skip level” is — lol is there anyone in corporate America who hasn’t heard that term? — that’s not what we are talking about in this thread. The issue on the table is a meeting where Larla isn’t satisfied with a decision and wants to take it up a level, which may well be appropriate, but to do so without letting her boss know, for which there is no good reason and which can create problems for Larla. This is especially true if Larla’s boss is so toxic she isn’t comfortable giving a heads up, because such a boss is the most likely to get mad about it. (My own reaction would range from disappointment to amusement, depending on the employee at issue and what she said to my boss, which I can assure you my boss will share with me to get my reaction.)

But, hey, you do you. Call the CEO if Mr. Corner Office is also “holding you back” or to improve your “personal branding”. But you are giving advice in this thread that is likely to do harm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Your employee will be gone in 6 months. She wants a promotion and you’ve made it clear she has to get it. Bet you wouldn’t be treating a man this way. Women are definitely judged when they ask for MORE and assert themselves.

+1.

I also don't understand why you see this as some sort of personal betrayal. She's advocating for herself. It has nothing to do with you.

I agree with both of these comments.