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Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

I’m with you PP. we have a $700k HHI (300k DW 400k DH) and you bet your ass we don’t do our own laundry. Twice a week laundry pick up/drop off and twice a week housekeeping service. And no we don’t live in Des Moines.

DP. This kind of circles back to another thread asking if all marriages suck. Some people(and I suspect OP is one of these) like to be unhappy. They find ways to make themselves unhappy. Who the Eff cares about laundry at that household income? Really?

People feel guilt and shame for spending money on stuff they theoretically can do themselves. I don’t get it. I work extremely hard. All my spare time is for my kids and my own health (eg hitting the gym). I’m not spending a single second on laundry.

Our aftercare housekeeper does our laundry once a week. Folded and left at Br door. My husband still won’t put it IN his drawers, which are now a mess and barely close. I put them at the foot of his messy dresser and go on w the rest of my life, knowing he’s a slob, a $500k a year total slob.

OP, you've gotten a lot of good advice. My perspective is from someone who was for years resentful that I carried all the mental load--all the finances, all the planning, most of the cooking, etc--but we both worked full time (and our combined hhi is sub 300k so we can't outsource the way you can).

Here are a few comments and thoughts.

1) feminism and the sexual revolution only worked partway. It worked enough so driven, education (and likely privileged) women like you can be successful and make a shit ton of money. But it hasn't so far changed a lot of ingrained gender assumptions, particularly on the part of men. You said you and your DH agreed that he would 'lean out' but frankly, that's not what he wants or is doing. The truth is that he is not (and does not want to be) the equivalent of the pt/ or SAHP who runs the household while spouse makes bank. He wants to have his career and a 'normal' load, which unfortunately to him is a bit regressive since he won't do parental stuff that he somehow thinks is your 'job.'

2) Underlying his actions is male resentment--he enjoys the money, sure, but it also feels emasculating to him that you are the one making the money and he is in the traditionally "female" role. Some men dont have a problem with it, but yours does. Your complaints--as justified as they may feel--will only make this worse, so you need a different tactic.

3) Recognize that your choice to work a ton and have things to a certain standard is your choice. Your DH's choice is to have a normal schedule with a nicely paying but not massive salary and it sounds like he chose a career accordingly. You did not.

4) your resentment that he relaxes while you work is annoying for sure. But you both deserve to relax and the issue here is that you chose a job that has a shit ton responsibility that eats into relaxation time. Instead of expecting him to do 80% of the household stuff *that others dont do* , expect 50%. Is he in that ballpark? think about what he is good at doing, likes to do and have him do those things.

5) agree with everyone that at your salary, you should have ONE household employee who runs the home. You should not be managing or micromanaging staff! A good household manager, like the one who posted, will get in the rhythm and basically anticipate your needs. This person should oversee cleaning, shopping, cooking, making and taking appointments for kids, household maintenance, filling out various forms, buying bday presents, picking up cleaning, taking car to the shop etc. Seriously this would be worth it to me if we had the $$ and you certainly do. What this leaves is quality time with your children and spouse.

6) I suspect that as a successful, educated, type A person, you have a hard time of letting go of control (I speak from experience) so the idea of letting someone else choose the camps, do the vacation research, etc, is at some level unsettling. But you MUST. If you are going to continue on your job, you have to empower someone else to make those decisions and then live by the consequences.

7) so much stuff is non essential. I am a working mom in a neighborhood of a lot of pt/sahm and I dont go to many of the school events, etc. I go to the important ones and that's it. My kids know they are important to me. At first I felt guilty and then realized I dont think Ive ever met aman who expressed any guilt about not being a class room helper serving snack next Friday. So some of that shit is not worth it.

Finally, in closing, if you're close to me in age we grew up thinking women could have it all, finally, just the way men can. But the reality is different and if you focus on that and your resentment it will just get work.. Instead of trying to change your husband (and I think his reactions are a mix of valid and not), change the way you are living. Take care of yourself, get sleep, exercise, recreatio. Also, think about the male CEOs--yes, they work a lot, but they also have boundaries for family and personal life. As a woman you may feel like you can't do that, but you have more control than you think. Finally, again, look inward and see if part of the issue might be solved by a willingness to give up control over a number of things (including the outcomes).

If you find you are still exhausted and miserable after outsourcing the stuff that 99% of us have to do, then its not your DH. Its your choice of jobs or at least, how you choose to do your job. Does not mean you have to quit but you might need to find a way to make it more reasonable.

There are several dimensions to what you're describing OP, but I have to say that your DH definitely needs to step up more on the "mental load" side of things.

My situation is reversed. I earn ~$250K in a more flexible job (work remotely, work needs to get done but not during fixed hours, 1-2 domestic trips/month). DH earns ~$500K (long commute, international travel once every two months, little flexibility in terms of when things get done). Nonetheless, DH does more "mental" tasks than yours does. He schedules and takes kids to dentist and doctor, he signs up for activities (my kids are younger, so fewer of them) and takes them to the weekend ones, he led that Kindergarten search for DD.

It didn't start this way, but I just really held firm on not doing certain things, looked the other way when they weren't exactly how I would do them, and the tasks just became his. I still carry most of the day-to-day mental load, but even just the symbolism of not having to handle all of it helps.

Also, even though kids are in pre-school (DS is half-day), we still have a full time nanny. She's not completely independent, but she handles most day-to-day responsibilities such as pick-up/drop-off, groceries, kids' laundry, cooking, errands, etc. The hardest aspect of managing her on a regular basis was figuring out meals and keeping up with kids growing out of clothes. We handled this by becoming comfortable with a smaller, more repetitive rotation of meals that DD helps plan at the beginning of the month. And we've developed a system where she periodically culls their wardrobes, tells me what they've outgrown, and I order online. She has kids try on and then returns what doesn't work.

So, basically, you have to lower your standards a little bit, develop better strategies for managing your help (and maybe get better help), and your DH does need to step up more. That being said, if I were DH I couldn't imagine spending as much time thinking about kids and house as I do. I had an opportunity to take a job that was higher paying than his, and he was up front that he was not going to do as much of the mental work as I was...his solution was to outsource more. That didn't work for me, so we ended up here. Your DH is "leaning out" from his career, but he's not leaning in at home as you expected. That might just not be his thing...and you have to work with that reality. Resting a couple of hours in the evening isn't the worst thing in the world. Both DH and I do it.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

She can either choose to focus on what she and you assume her husband wants. Or she can choose to see how she can make things work e.g. outsource the hell out so he has more time to chill and focus on the kids.

What do you mean "assume" ? Her husband also made the decision to prioritize her career. It's not a big secret that if both spouses make a decision to prioritize the high earner's career, then the lower earner handles all the hh/kid stuff. Handling hh chores can absolutely involve outsourcing. But guess what? Even if they hire the most amazing hh manager, it still requires some supervision and coordination from one of the parents. Is he going to do this work? The same guy who isn't willing to be in charge of kid stuff and only does hh chores if asked.

Stop pointing fingers. They both made the decision. It does not seem to be working for either of them. So the focus should be on what can change to make things better. And posters are helping Op figure that out: more outsourcing seems to be one of the suggestions. It is a much better suggestion than digging into the mind of Op's husband. What you or OP think he thinks is not very helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

I’m with you PP. we have a $700k HHI (300k DW 400k DH) and you bet your ass we don’t do our own laundry. Twice a week laundry pick up/drop off and twice a week housekeeping service. And no we don’t live in Des Moines.

DP. This kind of circles back to another thread asking if all marriages suck. Some people(and I suspect OP is one of these) like to be unhappy. They find ways to make themselves unhappy. Who the Eff cares about laundry at that household income? Really?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

She can either choose to focus on what she and you assume her husband wants. Or she can choose to see how she can make things work e.g. outsource the hell out so he has more time to chill and focus on the kids.

What do you mean "assume" ? Her husband also made the decision to prioritize her career. It's not a big secret that if both spouses make a decision to prioritize the high earner's career, then the lower earner handles all the hh/kid stuff. Handling hh chores can absolutely involve outsourcing. But guess what? Even if they hire the most amazing hh manager, it still requires some supervision and coordination from one of the parents. Is he going to do this work? The same guy who isn't willing to be in charge of kid stuff and only does hh chores if asked.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

I’m with you PP. we have a $700k HHI (300k DW 400k DH) and you bet your ass we don’t do our own laundry. Twice a week laundry pick up/drop off and twice a week housekeeping service. And no we don’t live in Des Moines.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

Let me guess - you live in a Des Moines suburb, and your mortgage is $267,000?

No, I live in Fairfax and my mortgage is $550k. Wtf?

PP, don't pay attention to a troll who claims other people's opinions are dumb. As you can see, they have made no attempts to justify their position. All they are capable of is one condescending statement after the other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

Let me guess - you live in a Des Moines suburb, and your mortgage is $267,000?

No, I live in Fairfax and my mortgage is $550k. Wtf?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

Let me guess - you live in a Des Moines suburb, and your mortgage is $267,000?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Why is that dumb? If our hhi was $600k, I'd happily hire someone to do my laundry. And cook dinner. And do dishes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but him being embarrassed to attend his children events?!?

Forgot the division of labor, I would have issues with him not being man enough to hang out with his daughter doing something she liked/loved. What if you died? She doesn’t get to do things because she doesn’t have a mom around.

+1 on this mess. Misogyny in plain view that he can’t stand the company of mothers or it somehow emasculates him. Was he some incel prior to meeting you?

Eh, DH here. I’m super involved, work PT, and go to all my kids events. Other moms are friendly but distant. I’m sure he feels isolated.

Yea, I subbed in at “dad” events when dh was deployed. It’s a different dynamic when you’re the only mom or dad there.

What "dad" events are there? I only have DDs so maybe you have DS and it's baseball or something like that?

Working mom here. When I go to kids’ events, parents (both moms and dads) are “distant” to me too, until I talk to them. It’s not a solution to wallow in resentment and not go to the event at all.

Listen, I do go talk to the women and am friendly. And then DW told me some of the moms thought I was hitting on them (and trust me, they are all very nice moms, but that never even crossed my mind). It's not that simple.

Mom here who agrees with the above dad.

DH is the only dad in a group of very involved parents at DC's school, and the moms frequently meet without inviting him. It makes him feel awkward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.

The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.

They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.

They can prioritize Op's career and still outsource laundry and other tasks. Even stay at home parents with 600k earners should not do their own laundry

This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read today, and that includes the woman who can't figure out whether to check a bag or bring a carry-on. Good grief.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but him being embarrassed to attend his children events?!?

Forgot the division of labor, I would have issues with him not being man enough to hang out with his daughter doing something she liked/loved. What if you died? She doesn’t get to do things because she doesn’t have a mom around.

+1 on this mess. Misogyny in plain view that he can’t stand the company of mothers or it somehow emasculates him. Was he some incel prior to meeting you?

Eh, DH here. I’m super involved, work PT, and go to all my kids events. Other moms are friendly but distant. I’m sure he feels isolated.

Yea, I subbed in at “dad” events when dh was deployed. It’s a different dynamic when you’re the only mom or dad there.

What "dad" events are there? I only have DDs so maybe you have DS and it's baseball or something like that?

Working mom here. When I go to kids’ events, parents (both moms and dads) are “distant” to me too, until I talk to them. It’s not a solution to wallow in resentment and not go to the event at all.

Listen, I do go talk to the women and am friendly. And then DW told me some of the moms thought I was hitting on them (and trust me, they are all very nice moms, but that never even crossed my mind). It's not that simple.