Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 13:53     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, why is moving the fence not an option?

I understand the rules to leave cans in the alley. I understand the convention to keep the alley clear and to use available strips of grass to put out cans.

But can there be a new convention when you adjust your fence to accommodate your trash cans on pickup days? Cut a portion of the existing fence and move it back two feet - it may be expensive but it seems that would be the responsible thing to do.


Once again, the existing fence very likely belongs to a different neighbor, or moving it will impact them. There's NO way to get around cooperating with your neighbors when you live in rowhouses. Your walls are literally shared.


Likely? It would be good to know the facts to have a constructive discussion.

I understood that the fence separates OP's "back yard" from the alley. Is that incorrect? How would moving the fence impact a different neighbor?

Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 13:48     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:I know both these neighbors, and I'm one of the people who puts out my cans on someone else's patch of property, with no problem. Some people suggest we change our fencing. Actually, the new guy suggested that, too. We are not rich people and this neighborhood is not a rich neighborhood. If we all had his money, maybe we all would change our fences. Maybe he should pay for it. He can be like his neighbors and put community before self twice a week, or have us all think he is a selfish gentrifier. He made his choice.


Oh you are a neighbor? Great problem solved! OP can place her trash and recycling containers in your yard!
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 13:26     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
OP, why don't you just keep your trash cans in your backyard until trash day? Pull your cans out to the alley for one day and bring them back in your yard that night.

I've lived in numerous narrow alleys in DC. Cars and garbage trucks can maneuver a tighter-than-usual alleyway one day per week. It's not rocket science.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 13:23     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
OP,

I'm curious as to whether you ASKED the new neighbor before you put your cans there the first time after he moved in.
Did you?
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 12:20     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
So before I get sent back to Montana, let me say that I grew up in an apartment building and have been living in various row houses since I came to DC. I experienced my fair share of having to manage common space and somehow it never turned into an issue. The critical thing though was for everyone to understand what common actually meant. OP's neighbor's strip of grass is NOT common space and his neighbors should not feel entitled to use it as they please. Given that the neighbor, who knows what OP's lot looks like, suggested her to move her fence, there does not seem to be any obstacle other than her not wanting to pay for that. And there is no need to affect the fence of the adjoining properties either. She can just fence out a small area that just fits the cans and have doors leading to it from her backyard and from the alley. On trash days she opens the gate to the alley while keeping the other gate locked. Like that everything is secure, the trash is accessible, the alley is not blocked and no use of somebody else's property is necessary.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 11:10     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Explain the situation ti the houses on either side of new neighbor and ask them if you can leave your cans there. Then tell new neighbor that you explained to everyone on the street that he wasn’t open to sharing space so now other neighbors have stepped up.


OMG there's something really wrong with you.

SMH.


no, it's a good solution. normally rowhouse neighbors are considerate of the weird property configurations that makes sharing space a necessity sometime. It's neighborly. If the new people don't want to be neighborly, they can't complain that word gets around.


Actually, normally neighbors make sure they can do whatever they need to do on their own property without claiming ownership or entitlement over someone else’s property.

There’s nothing stopping OP from modifying his fence to accommodate his need to have somewhere to put his trash cans. If he doesn’t want to do that, he can pay the neighbor to rent the land, hand over the cans to the waste collectors directly as required, or simply move.

As they say, poor planning on your side doesn’t constitute an emergency on mine.


Actually people normally use alley space exactly in the way OP describes. It may not be as simple as modifying a fence - and changing the fence may impact the neighbor's use of the *shared* fence ... I feel like you must not have ever lived in a rowhouse.


Also, OP may have a prescriptive easement anyway.


Then s/he’s going to have to go to court to prove it. Which is less costly- adjusting a fence by one segment to have room for trash cans, or dragging yourself to court.


OK then, my neighbor can go to court to get me to trim my tree that overhangs and clogs their gutter.

See how it works?

No dumb dumb
If it overhangs it is your responsibility to trim it.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 11:07     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:Here are your choices:
—Go ask one of the other neighbors if you can put your trash cans on their strip as well.
—Each morning, be out at trash & recycling pick up and literally hand over your cans.
—Cut your fenceline and move it back to accommodate space for your cans.

He’s a jerk as a neighbor. I wouldn’t even be so sure he has rights to the strip of grass. It may be part of the alley. And even if it is technically his property, he’s still a jerk. It’s in his interest to make sure the alley is clear and that your trash is picked up. I’ve lived in our rowhouse for 14 years. Everyone helps take care of the alley. You move your neighbors’ trash cans back when they blow over and shovel snow together. You help each other out.

He is a jerk because he does not want someone else’s trash bins on his property??
WOW!
How about OP make room in her side??
Move your fence . Some you have balls of steel!
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 11:06     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
OP:

Are your trash cans blocking the neighbor's car or access to his property?

Does he use that space for his own trash cans (or car or..)?

Do you have a lot of smelly trash in there?

Did you ask him before you put your cans there or did you just assume he'd be cool with it?

Twice a week pickup would be annoying for sure if your cans are imposing in some way. We put our cans out the night before so we're talking the cans could be sitting out there for like 20 hours (twice a week for OP).

If it's not an imposition and neighbor is really just being difficult then that sucks. We had a neighbor move in and was placing his cans directly behind our car. DH finally asked him to stop and he was all "well I don't have space for them on my property." Sorry dude but that's your problem. He figured it out and we somehow still manage to be friendly neighbors.

OP I"m sure you will figure it out without resorting to organizing a neighborhood mutiny.

-DC resident whose townhouse backs up to an alley
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 11:05     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:You need to make room on your property to place your cans for pick up.

This!
You made YOUR problem his and now you big mad??
Figure out your own trash - seriously!
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 11:03     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Explain the situation ti the houses on either side of new neighbor and ask them if you can leave your cans there. Then tell new neighbor that you explained to everyone on the street that he wasn’t open to sharing space so now other neighbors have stepped up.


OMG there's something really wrong with you.

SMH.


+1

Hint: If you mob the new neighbor, the neighbors will inevitably know it was you who did it, and that tactic inevitably backfires. Every time. Don't be THAT neighbor, especially if you plan on living in your house a long time. No one likes you and your antics.


DP. Ha ha, that's actually not what happened in our case. New neighbors decided to be d*cks, and all the other neighbors called them on it. "THAT" neighbor is the one who decides to take actions that negatively impact everyone (blocking the alley with trash cans.)


You mean take his property? What gives you the right to take someone else’s property? You are just a common thief. Why is it so hard to understand that you have to keep your things on your property? There is always someone like you in a row house.


Yeah, that's not actually the way it works living in rowhouses. You have to cooperate. Nobody is "taking" your property - the neighbors had a system that worked in everyone's interests, and you're being a d*ck about it. So, enjoy trimming the tree from your roof, having to move the trash cans OP puts in front of your car in the alley, and never getting lost packages or mail returned to you. Do you even realize that your entire front stoop area doesn't even belong to you, by the way?


The tree trimming guy needs to take a Xanax.

And he should also realize that people have other options to prevent a problem tree from constantly annoying them. Options he probably wouldn’t like. And he also better make sure he’s not legally liable for damage when his branches fall, especially if neighbor has asked you to trim it and you refused.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 11:00     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:OP's neighbor here. The new guy doesn't want the cans in the alley because it is narrow and cans block cars
He also doesn't want cans on his property. I asked him today where people should put cans. His answer: "I don't know."


1. Are you okay with OP blocking the alley with his cans?

2. Is there any way for OP to cut a gate into the existing fence?

3. How else would OP keep the cans on his own property if not with a gate? Is there a way to walk around on trash days?

4. Did OP offer you anything for the use of your property?
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:52     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Explain the situation ti the houses on either side of new neighbor and ask them if you can leave your cans there. Then tell new neighbor that you explained to everyone on the street that he wasn’t open to sharing space so now other neighbors have stepped up.


OMG there's something really wrong with you.

SMH.


+1

Hint: If you mob the new neighbor, the neighbors will inevitably know it was you who did it, and that tactic inevitably backfires. Every time. Don't be THAT neighbor, especially if you plan on living in your house a long time. No one likes you and your antics.


DP. Ha ha, that's actually not what happened in our case. New neighbors decided to be d*cks, and all the other neighbors called them on it. "THAT" neighbor is the one who decides to take actions that negatively impact everyone (blocking the alley with trash cans.)


You mean take his property? What gives you the right to take someone else’s property? You are just a common thief. Why is it so hard to understand that you have to keep your things on your property? There is always someone like you in a row house.


Yeah, that's not actually the way it works living in rowhouses. You have to cooperate. Nobody is "taking" your property - the neighbors had a system that worked in everyone's interests, and you're being a d*ck about it. So, enjoy trimming the tree from your roof, having to move the trash cans OP puts in front of your car in the alley, and never getting lost packages or mail returned to you. Do you even realize that your entire front stoop area doesn't even belong to you, by the way?
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:45     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP's neighbor here. The new guy doesn't want the cans in the alley because it is narrow and cans block cars
He also doesn't want cans on his property. I asked him today where people should put cans. His answer: "I don't know."


Just put the cans in the alley. He can't control more than his little patch of grass. If he doesn't want OP's cans there, that's his right, but he can't also dictate what happens in the alley, all he has provenance over is his patch of grass.


Yeah, this is the right answer. It stinks, but there's really no other choice.


The other choice is moving the fence. There has been no rationalization from OP for why that is impossible. It is probably expensive, but not impossible. That said, I recommend putting them in the alley. That's what we do and have had zero problems in the decades that I have lived in DC.


Yes, I should have said this is an option, though it's an unpalatable one.

I also agree that the other owner is within his rights, but he's being a jackass (assuming he isn't using that little strip for something else, but just wants it kept clear). I'd care not one whit that he "doesn't want the trash cans in the alley" - neither does anyone else, and that's why they've come up with these work-arounds.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:34     Subject: Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Explain the situation ti the houses on either side of new neighbor and ask them if you can leave your cans there. Then tell new neighbor that you explained to everyone on the street that he wasn’t open to sharing space so now other neighbors have stepped up.


OMG there's something really wrong with you.

SMH.


+1

Hint: If you mob the new neighbor, the neighbors will inevitably know it was you who did it, and that tactic inevitably backfires. Every time. Don't be THAT neighbor, especially if you plan on living in your house a long time. No one likes you and your antics.


DP. Ha ha, that's actually not what happened in our case. New neighbors decided to be d*cks, and all the other neighbors called them on it. "THAT" neighbor is the one who decides to take actions that negatively impact everyone (blocking the alley with trash cans.)


please go back to your ranch and defend your inviolable property rights there.

You mean take his property? What gives you the right to take someone else’s property? You are just a common thief. Why is it so hard to understand that you have to keep your things on your property? There is always someone like you in a row house.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:30     Subject: Re:Dispute regarding trash cans for alley pick-up in DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP's neighbor here. The new guy doesn't want the cans in the alley because it is narrow and cans block cars
He also doesn't want cans on his property. I asked him today where people should put cans. His answer: "I don't know."


Just put the cans in the alley. He can't control more than his little patch of grass. If he doesn't want OP's cans there, that's his right, but he can't also dictate what happens in the alley, all he has provenance over is his patch of grass.


Yeah, this is the right answer. It stinks, but there's really no other choice.


The other choice is moving the fence. There has been no rationalization from OP for why that is impossible. It is probably expensive, but not impossible. That said, I recommend putting them in the alley. That's what we do and have had zero problems in the decades that I have lived in DC.