Anonymous wrote:I just finished watching and I really don’t think he did it. I’m leaning towards Jay.

What’s his motive?

I just finished watching and I really don’t think he did it. I’m leaning towards Jay.

here’s my take:

1) Jennifer/Jay have too many detailed recalling of events, that are on/about the date of Hae death/missing. Jennifer says that Jay was with Adnan the day she went missing and then she has recalled the shovel he had to “wipe down”. However, I agree with PPs, that the police could have planted that timeline into both of their memories to fill in the missing gaps. The second interview of Jay, proved so, since I heard how they were flipping pages. The time from when he was brought into questioning till when they actually started questioning. If they saw Jay as someone who was involved with the crime, they should have arrested him, but no the police and corrupt so he went free in order for Jay to confine with his story

2) overall, the system is corrupt, the police officer now detective seemed a bit “off” when asked about Willis, he even had a doubt in his tone and response. There were plenty of responses that he said, that made me question his ethics. The state not conducting the DNA samples, not once have I heard about subpoenas to ALL parties involved, that’s sick to me. Adnan was not given a fair trial from the beginning (even if guilty), his defense team did not througougly research the evidence.

3) Don, to me, when I see “Don’s Mother” in bold that always signifies pay attention to this detail. AKA she can lie for him. Which she did. The coworker recalls Don having scratches, something that is abnormal in any day and time. Those scratches were fresh, and like someone pointed out had they of tested Don’s DNA, if he was in fact apart of the killing, it would’ve showed on her fingernails.

4) Police said they had a tip of an “Asian young boy”, clearly that was Haes brother, he’s the only one with insight on her relationship with him and him finding Adnans number on her notebook

5) I don’t see why people think the documentary should have been more about Hae, when it clearly is about the injustice Adnan is living. My intentions isn’t to sound harsh, but realistic, this documentary isn’t a love story gone wrong. It’s about the legal system failing Adnan, and shedding light on the evidence they did not care to, to bring his case to a new light

All in all, I have do not have a solid concrete answer if he is innocent or guilty. The timeline and memories of Jenn and Jay are too detailed to convict Adnan as the murder. However, there are a lot of missing ends that do not add up Don not being subpoenaed, the guy that found her, his background and how he was driving on the opposite side of the street, says he needs to release himself yet it’s middle of winter and goes to the complete opposite side and deep into the woods, I’ve seen men go outside before THEY DO NOT TAKE HIKES INTO THE WOODS. Also, the friend that spoke to him for 7 hours she was fishy, VERY VERY FISHY, one she was giggly the entire time, when compared to all her friends, this was a serious matter and no one seemed the bit happy. She asked about Don she was bashful as if she had an interest for him, then when asked at the end if she thought Adnan was the murder, she was also asked with Don in that same sentence, she says in smile tone “Adnan is 100% not”, what makes her so sure and everyone else is debating?

Although, polygraph tests are not deemed reliable andhavd faults. Stephane, Don, that giddy friend, the man that found her, each of these people need to be called into questioning.

Because at this point, the witnesses that they had were not credible because they could not properly / accurately recall the time line of events

This is my first time understating the details of the case and also think that life was excessive for a young boy and it’s as if the state is keeping in there longer because of the attention the case is receiving. I hate that they brought his Muslim community as a way to deny bail! That made me tear up, because his mother and father are dealing with this fight of the freedom of his life yet reminded how much their religion could factor into his case, from him being possessive, leaving the country, etc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone remind me (or tell me where to look for it) if there's any independent verification of the police's timeline (she was dead by 2:36)? That's the main thing that makes Adnan so implausible as a suspect (to me) -- I just don't get how a 17 year old, relatively innocent kid can manage such a perfect crime (no witnesses in a public place, with a typically loud/struggle-filled cause of death) in 20 or so minutes. I truly don't think he did it at all, but I would have been easier to convince if it wasn't so precise.

I think the timeline is irrelevant when you have a witness saying he saw accused with the body. We know the timeline doesn't fit but it could've been done another time.

Jay didn't say he saw him that early though, I don't think. She was seen at school around 2:15 and then didn't show to pick up her cousin..

Anonymous wrote:Can someone remind me (or tell me where to look for it) if there's any independent verification of the police's timeline (she was dead by 2:36)? That's the main thing that makes Adnan so implausible as a suspect (to me) -- I just don't get how a 17 year old, relatively innocent kid can manage such a perfect crime (no witnesses in a public place, with a typically loud/struggle-filled cause of death) in 20 or so minutes. I truly don't think he did it at all, but I would have been easier to convince if it wasn't so precise.

I think the timeline is irrelevant when you have a witness saying he saw accused with the body. We know the timeline doesn't fit but it could've been done another time.

Well it's all academic now, no trial, he'll serve his sentence. Seems more than likely he's guilty of something, perhaps no alone, but he isn't totally innocent.

Can someone remind me (or tell me where to look for it) if there's any independent verification of the police's timeline (she was dead by 2:36)? That's the main thing that makes Adnan so implausible as a suspect (to me) -- I just don't get how a 17 year old, relatively innocent kid can manage such a perfect crime (no witnesses in a public place, with a typically loud/struggle-filled cause of death) in 20 or so minutes. I truly don't think he did it at all, but I would have been easier to convince if it wasn't so precise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

To have a guy Jay, incriminate himself and say he saw the body and helped bury it is extremely damaging evidence. People get serious time for being in the car with someone who kills someone in a botched robbery when they had no idea it was going to happen. Why would Jay risk all of this over a "weed possession" incident. I just don't get it. I still don't see how he is not in jail right now for a role that he admitted to play.

They pointed out that Jay was a teenager himself, and because he hadn’t been charged with anything during his interviews, he didn’t have a lawyer present. I can totally see a young black boy being manipulated by the police into thinking that it’s in his interest to cop to helping Annan with the body in order to avoid a drug charge.

I don't.. That's absolutely nuts, no one from a similar background that I grew up with would do something so stupid.

And yet it worked for him. The prosecutor called in a favor and got him a good lawyer, and he served no jail time.

And, to the best of my knowledge, has served no jailtime for anything, ever since these events. He sounds like a habitual low level offender, if not more, but he skates every time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

Who do you think did it, and how did Jay know everything?

I used to think he was innocent after listening to Serial. Now I'm leaning towards guilty, but not 100%. I think the idea cited earlier in this thread - that he was going to pay Jay to do it and it got messed up, so he did it or they did it together - is very likely. He can't say that now, because he's still holding out hope he will be found innocent, but is furious that Jay went free. There are just too many inconsistencies in Adnan's story (that he and Jay didn't know each other well when they obviously did, asking Hae for a ride, whether he was actually at track / the mosque that day, the cell records) for him to have not been involved. And Jay knew too much - but had no motive without Adnan.

The only other possibility to me seems like Don, her current boyfriend - but he had no motive.

How do we know Don didn't have a motive? Do you think they spent more than 2 seconds looking at him?

The private investigators seemed to confirm his alibi. They said it would have been impossible to doctor the time cards after the fact. Also, they interviewed his coworkers that day. You would also have to explain how Jay and Jen knew so much without a massive conspiracy.

DP. I don't think Jenn and Jay KNEW much of anything. THey are recalling what they were told. I encourage you to listen the Season Five of the Truth and Justice podcast, about the West Memphis Three case. I found it fascinating for a lot of reasons, including about how susceptible people -- especially scared young people who are eager to please the authorities (for a variety of reasons) -- are to the "planting" that police do in these interviews. The police/prosecutors really can create a memory for a "witness" who is then convinced that something happened, and that they remember it happening. For some reason we think that it is reasonable to expect people to remember where they were or what they were doing every minute of every day, but that's not realistic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

Who do you think did it, and how did Jay know everything?

I used to think he was innocent after listening to Serial. Now I'm leaning towards guilty, but not 100%. I think the idea cited earlier in this thread - that he was going to pay Jay to do it and it got messed up, so he did it or they did it together - is very likely. He can't say that now, because he's still holding out hope he will be found innocent, but is furious that Jay went free. There are just too many inconsistencies in Adnan's story (that he and Jay didn't know each other well when they obviously did, asking Hae for a ride, whether he was actually at track / the mosque that day, the cell records) for him to have not been involved. And Jay knew too much - but had no motive without Adnan.

The only other possibility to me seems like Don, her current boyfriend - but he had no motive.

How do we know Don didn't have a motive? Do you think they spent more than 2 seconds looking at him?

The private investigators seemed to confirm his alibi. They said it would have been impossible to doctor the time cards after the fact. Also, they interviewed his coworkers that day. You would also have to explain how Jay and Jen knew so much without a massive conspiracy.

I think the time card thing is sketchy, but there's just no way Jay was not involved (and likely Adnan). He knows WAY too much. Where does it say that Don's coworkers said he had bandages etc?

They have identified a new witness who worked with him at Lens Crafters who said he remembers Don mentioning that Hae was missing. He observed the bandages on his hands just as he was discussing this. Apparently per Undisclosed there are now several coworkers at Lens Crafters who could "contribute" to the case. But we are not sure to what extent, positive or negative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

Who do you think did it, and how did Jay know everything?

I used to think he was innocent after listening to Serial. Now I'm leaning towards guilty, but not 100%. I think the idea cited earlier in this thread - that he was going to pay Jay to do it and it got messed up, so he did it or they did it together - is very likely. He can't say that now, because he's still holding out hope he will be found innocent, but is furious that Jay went free. There are just too many inconsistencies in Adnan's story (that he and Jay didn't know each other well when they obviously did, asking Hae for a ride, whether he was actually at track / the mosque that day, the cell records) for him to have not been involved. And Jay knew too much - but had no motive without Adnan.

The only other possibility to me seems like Don, her current boyfriend - but he had no motive.

How do we know Don didn't have a motive? Do you think they spent more than 2 seconds looking at him?

The private investigators seemed to confirm his alibi. They said it would have been impossible to doctor the time cards after the fact. Also, they interviewed his coworkers that day. You would also have to explain how Jay and Jen knew so much without a massive conspiracy.

I think the time card thing is sketchy, but there's just no way Jay was not involved (and likely Adnan). He knows WAY too much. Where does it say that Don's coworkers said he had bandages etc?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

Who do you think did it, and how did Jay know everything?

I used to think he was innocent after listening to Serial. Now I'm leaning towards guilty, but not 100%. I think the idea cited earlier in this thread - that he was going to pay Jay to do it and it got messed up, so he did it or they did it together - is very likely. He can't say that now, because he's still holding out hope he will be found innocent, but is furious that Jay went free. There are just too many inconsistencies in Adnan's story (that he and Jay didn't know each other well when they obviously did, asking Hae for a ride, whether he was actually at track / the mosque that day, the cell records) for him to have not been involved. And Jay knew too much - but had no motive without Adnan.

The only other possibility to me seems like Don, her current boyfriend - but he had no motive.

How do we know Don didn't have a motive? Do you think they spent more than 2 seconds looking at him?

The private investigators seemed to confirm his alibi. They said it would have been impossible to doctor the time cards after the fact. Also, they interviewed his coworkers that day. You would also have to explain how Jay and Jen knew so much without a massive conspiracy.

They didn't confirm the alibi, they just showed that no one could go back and change the records later. However, they showed that is unlikely he would have taken that shift at the other store with staff already in place and that he/mom/step mom could have manipulated the system at the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

Who do you think did it, and how did Jay know everything?

I used to think he was innocent after listening to Serial. Now I'm leaning towards guilty, but not 100%. I think the idea cited earlier in this thread - that he was going to pay Jay to do it and it got messed up, so he did it or they did it together - is very likely. He can't say that now, because he's still holding out hope he will be found innocent, but is furious that Jay went free. There are just too many inconsistencies in Adnan's story (that he and Jay didn't know each other well when they obviously did, asking Hae for a ride, whether he was actually at track / the mosque that day, the cell records) for him to have not been involved. And Jay knew too much - but had no motive without Adnan.

The only other possibility to me seems like Don, her current boyfriend - but he had no motive.

How do we know Don didn't have a motive? Do you think they spent more than 2 seconds looking at him?

The private investigators seemed to confirm his alibi. They said it would have been impossible to doctor the time cards after the fact. Also, they interviewed his coworkers that day. You would also have to explain how Jay and Jen knew so much without a massive conspiracy.

I understood it as someone clocked him in and out even though he wasn’t actually at work. A coworker stated he saw Don with cut, scratches and bandages on his hands after (day after maybe) Hae went missing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The last episode was heartbreaking. Seeing what a failure this justice system is, I would have taken that plea deal. Those DNA samples were not tested. Wtf? Just awful. I feel so sorry for that poor mother.

The last episode sold me on his innocence.

If he had actually done it, he would have taken the plea.

This was just after their win in the courts. He was gambling that there wouldn't be another trial or that he would get a better deal later on. It was a very close final appeal, one vote change would have meant another trial.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always thought that Adnan was innocent. It's surprises me when people who have listened to Serial and watch this show disagree. After watching last night's show, March 24th, I find it really, really hard to believe that he's guilty. Would love to hear from someone who disagrees, and why?

Who do you think did it, and how did Jay know everything?

I used to think he was innocent after listening to Serial. Now I'm leaning towards guilty, but not 100%. I think the idea cited earlier in this thread - that he was going to pay Jay to do it and it got messed up, so he did it or they did it together - is very likely. He can't say that now, because he's still holding out hope he will be found innocent, but is furious that Jay went free. There are just too many inconsistencies in Adnan's story (that he and Jay didn't know each other well when they obviously did, asking Hae for a ride, whether he was actually at track / the mosque that day, the cell records) for him to have not been involved. And Jay knew too much - but had no motive without Adnan.

The only other possibility to me seems like Don, her current boyfriend - but he had no motive.

How do we know Don didn't have a motive? Do you think they spent more than 2 seconds looking at him?

The private investigators seemed to confirm his alibi. They said it would have been impossible to doctor the time cards after the fact. Also, they interviewed his coworkers that day. You would also have to explain how Jay and Jen knew so much without a massive conspiracy.