Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

iow -- get a relationship with Jesus, goddammit, if you ever expect to get to heaven.

Is it worth knowing him without the promise of eternal paradise or avoidance of eternal torture?

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Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, [b]to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

Like I said, Christian will find salvation through Jesus. Other people will find salvation in other ways. God reaches each person in the way they need to be reached.

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

I'm talking about CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, not a general conception that there are multiple paths to reaching God.

Jesus does not only exist in the Bible or church.

If I embrasse love I believe in Jesus I just call Jesus love.

Anonymous wrote:The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

iow -- get a relationship with Jesus, goddammit, if you ever expect to get to heaven.

Anonymous wrote:NP: PP you are trying to force PPP into a false cubby.

I was raised Catholic in a Benedictine school, and we were never taught that ours was the only way. I understand that many people never learned that, and that you appear to have been given the impression that all Christians believe what you think they believe, but you should be relieved (I think) to know that they don't.

I'm guessing that pp has been given the impression that all Christians SHOULD believe what he/she believes and is trying to help them get right with God before it's TOO LATE.

NP: PP you are trying to force PPP into a false cubby.

I was raised Catholic in a Benedictine school, and we were never taught that ours was the only way. I understand that many people never learned that, and that you appear to have been given the impression that all Christians believe what you think they believe, but you should be relieved (I think) to know that they don't.

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Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, [b]to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

Like I said, Christian will find salvation through Jesus. Other people will find salvation in other ways. God reaches each person in the way they need to be reached.

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

I'm talking about CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, not a general conception that there are multiple paths to reaching God.

The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

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Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, [b]to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

Like I said, Christian will find salvation through Jesus. Other people will find salvation in other ways. God reaches each person in the way they need to be reached.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, [b]to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, [b]to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

And just to make things totally clear. Salvation is totally based on faith period.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is the most famous but there are several other passages that make this clear.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The entire book of Romans is an excellent explainer of what Christianity actually is Romans 3 here

22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"God is Love" doesn't contradict the idea all over the rest of the Bible that the *only* way to the Father is through Jesus (John said that explicitly, as did others). Moreover, to be inscribed in the book of life, you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

^^^^P.S. Girl... you might want to work a little harder on getting your name into the Book of Life because you can believe in Jesus but if your life is filled with following Satan, judging others, being a hypocrite, not loving your enemies, voting for greed....

Revelation 20:15.... Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"

Here is an amazing thing God speaks to you through the bible and he fully expect you to come to him through Jesus, good on your for doing that.

But he does not speak to everybody through the bible, they will find him in other ways, mostly good acts.

But if you just can't conceptualize the fact that God reveals himself to other in other ways and need a quote from the bible to believe so...

God is Love is a good start.

Here you go Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Also you may want to keep in mind.... Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs who say the Bible doesn't say unbaptized people go to Hell, explain this:

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

Where does that verse mention baptism?

Really?

You need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus, no? That's a big part of it, right?

So if you have to go through Jesus to get to God, it would stand to reason that you need to accept Jesus. Accepting Jesus requires baptism, right?

Where does the Bible say you need to be baptized to fully accept Jesus? In fact, where is the explanation of this verse? Anything could be "through Jesus."

Ok, sure.

But those who don't engage with Jesus at all--aka Jews, non-Christians--don't go to heaven, right?

In Christianity, Heaven is full communion with Jesus Christ for all eternity... why would a non-believer want that? It wouldn’t make sense for someone with no relationship with Jesus to even want that.

... because the alternative, according to Christians, is hell? Hell is not supposed to be a pleasant place.

And what does the Bible tell us about Hell? Very very little. Perhaps it is simply the absence of God, or the end of your existence altogether.

Jews get to spend eternity with G-D but not through Jesus. G-d is amazing like that he created many paths to salvation.

Um nope Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

It's the only way for Christians.

But G-D could not reveal himself the same way to all, so he created many paths.

Where in the Bible does it say that God created many paths to salvation? That's totally inconsistent with Christianity and it doesn't even make any sense -- why would you have a religion that says "hey, so Jesus is the son of God and is your Lord and Savior, but if you aren't down with Jesus, you can go to Heaven anyway -- do what you want!"