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Anonymous wrote:Just curious as to why so many childess adults are on the DC Urban Moms and Dads forums. Also wondering why there are so many parents in their early 40s and younger posting in the "Midlife Concerns and Eldercare" subforum. It would be nice to have a conversation with parents who are 50 and over, as advertised in the forum heading...

I'm a parent in her 40s. I participate in this forum b/c I have elder care concerns.

This thread did not specify that only parents 50 and over could participate. If that's your goal, create your own thread with the explicit criteria.

DP. This *forum* used to be titled 50 and over for that very reason. It was a safe haven from some of the young foolishness. The name changed and apparently now some of the posters have too.

Sad how many people here feel the need to lie on even an anonymous forum.

If you say "I love/don't regret my kids, but..." you regret it.

Moo on.

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Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do, NEVER tell your kid you might not have had him/her, if you had known how difficult it is.

My mom has repeatedly told me, "I love you and your sister so much, but if I had known how emotionally draining raising children is, I don't know if I would have done it."

Mind you, my sister and I were relatively easy kids--we did well in school, neither of us has special needs of any kind, we didn't do drugs/smoke/have sex or even skip class--and we're both married to nice guys and have professional careers.

I'm sure you can imagine the number that has done to me, so please--just don't share your thoughts with your kid.

I think it’s sad that you can’t appreciate your mother’s honesty and insight. I was a surprise pregnancy for my parents and there is no way in hell they would have chosen to have me, but I know they love me. I’m not hung up about the fact that they would have made a different choice, if they’d had a choice. It’s not a reflection on me—it’s just a reflection of the fact that raising kids is damn hard and not something you should really do unless you’re well set up for it. Really, I think more people should be more honest about this. Your mother was trying to make sure your eyes were open and tell you it’s okah to choose not to go down that road.

My MIL who is an awful person and was an awful mother, gushes no end about how being a mother is the most important thing and of course it’s the best thing she’s done. She has no insight or self-awareness at all.

My mom has made it abundantly clear that "I only ever got pregnant when I wanted to." My sister and I were 100% planned.

There's a difference between saying "it's ok to not want to have kids" and to say "you and your sister were so emotionally draining that I might not have had kids if I had to do it over again." It has led to me constantly wondering what made me so emotionally draining. It has led to me constantly striving for my mother's acceptance and approval, even though I know I will never really get it.

It has been horribly painful.

Ok I think you're being a bit dramatic here. Sounds like you ARE emotionally draining because you're so needy and sensitive.

Oh, come on! My kids are super emotionally draining, but it's not because they are needy or sensitive. It's because kids are super emotionally draining. Full stop. It hits some parents harder than others (News flash: people are different!). You realize this person just told us that what her mother told her was incredibly painful for her and you basically doubled-down on it? I hope you are kinder to yourself and to others in person, because on the internet you suck.

Um no. Reading comprehension is your friend. PP's mother was honest with her about kids being emotionally draining. You just admitted yours are too. Does that mean you don't love your kids even if at times you might wish you didn't have them at that moment? Because if so then you are just as bad as PP's mother. BUT I suspect that's not really what you meant when you said that and neither did PP's mom. However, PP is carrying on about being traumatized by this statement which is an extreme reaction to a very honest, self-aware feeling that her mother had, and apparently one that many others, such as yourself, also share.

PP is also being self-aware and honest and expressing her honest feeling about being told raising her was difficult, and you are not giving her the same level of understanding that you do her mother for expressing her feelings of trauma at being a mother. Many people share PP's feelings of trauma at being told by their parents they were not wanted, or were difficult, or that their parents would have made a different choice if they could do it over again. Yet that doesn't seem to be good enough for you to acknowledge her feelings as legitimate, even while you allow that her mother's feelings are legitimate in part because others share them.

Pot meet kettle.

PP with the mom who called me "emotionally draining" here. It isn't just that one comment.

When I was in my mid-20s, my mom told me, "You have been so difficult that I can't give you emotional support or comfort anymore." Maybe I really had been that difficult, but I'm struggling to figure out how. I did well in school, never got in trouble, graduated with honors from college, went to grad school, got a job. Heck, I went to boarding school for high school and spent summers away from home, so I didn't even live at home full-time after I was 14 years old.

I did lean on my mom for help when I was stressed about things, but I think a lot of people do that.

Now, when she comes to visit, there's always something to criticize. Our house is too cold, our pantry isn't well-organized, we don't use the right type of sponges in our sink, etc. etc. etc.

It's just never-ending.

PP with the awful mom, I hope you're still reading this thread. I think you should cut your mother off. I really do. I am estranged from my emotionally abusive, alcoholic father by choice and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. I haven't seen him in nearly 20 years. He was not invited to my wedding and he has not ever met my three children, nor will he ever on my watch. It took quite a bit of therapy for me to realize that some people just don't deserve to be in my life (or my kids' lives) whether or not I'm genetically related to them. When he dies, I won't go to his funeral. It used to hurt a lot, because he was a great dad when my sisters and I were young, but that dad left and is never coming back, and this dad is an irredeemable jerk, so he might as well be dead. He is a person who really should not have ever had kids.

Ignore all the haters (or maybe just the one obnoxious poster) telling you that it's you. It's not you. It's her. She is never going to change, and you are never going to change her no matter how good you are, no matter if you try to reason with her, no matter if you appeal to her emotions. You already know you will never get her acceptance and approval, and if it helps at all, you have my permission to stop trying. Your mother is a toxic person and she doesn't deserve you, your sister, or your daughter. It is not worth whatever benefit she brings to your daughter's life to have her still contaminating your life and mental health with her toxic waste. Presumably your daughter is young and cute now. What happens when she gets older? Does your mom start criticizing her? Does your mom start comparing you to your daughter, telling your daughter what a crap daughter you were and what a crap mom you are now? No. You are the parent and you are the adult and you actually do get to choose whether you want a relationship with your mother or not depending on what *your* needs and wishes are.

It's not easy, and some people (I'm looking at you, obnoxious poster) judge like crazy, but guess what -- it's your life and you get to say. Find a good therapist who is compassionate and understanding but who also understands what toxic parenting is and how to help adults with toxic parents learn to separate and let go. Please get the help you need to bring some resolution to this, because you deserve to live a life without her constant rejection of you.

Anonymous wrote:Just curious as to why so many childess adults are on the DC Urban Moms and Dads forums. Also wondering why there are so many parents in their early 40s and younger posting in the "Midlife Concerns and Eldercare" subforum. It would be nice to have a conversation with parents who are 50 and over, as advertised in the forum heading...

I'm a parent in her 40s. I participate in this forum b/c I have elder care concerns.

This thread did not specify that only parents 50 and over could participate. If that's your goal, create your own thread with the explicit criteria.

Just curious as to why so many childess adults are on the DC Urban Moms and Dads forums. Also wondering why there are so many parents in their early 40s and younger posting in the "Midlife Concerns and Eldercare" subforum. It would be nice to have a conversation with parents who are 50 and over, as advertised in the forum heading...

DH and I married late and had IF problems, so we didn't become parents until I was almost 40 and he was pushing 50. DS1 has turned out to be really challenging and detrimental to our health. DH's afib got a lot worse after DS1 was born due to the sleep disruption and sheer stress. I would be lying is I say I never had any regrets.

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Anonymous wrote:If I had known how hard it was going to be and how much of my life would have been affected, I may have made a different choice. Once they are here, there is no going back.

I am grateful that my mother was pretty clear with me on this. Yes, it was also hard knowing she regretted having kids, but it saved me from making the same mistake. Her words were basically 'think long and hard before you do it, because there's no way out for the rest of your life'. I am a content DINK with a fun, meaningful life, and I get to be honorary aunt to my friends' children.

Sorry but you are probably 32. Some day you will long for kids.

Why do you assume that everyone wants/will eventually want what you do/did??? I am 40, don’t want kids, & never have.

I have a pet Pygmy goat, wanted one for years, has never once regretted getting one. Do you want a goat? If the answer is no, you just think you don’t want one. There is no way you can live a happy, full life goatless, you are just too young to realize this.

I cackled at this.

Why? Because millions of years of human evolution has deeply encoded an intense desire to raise Pygmy goats into our DNA?

That’s a ridiculous analogy. The desire to reproduce is not a social construct.

So why was birth control invented? What was in it for women to birth seven, eight children and deal with the physical trauma of multiple pregnancies? The desire to reproduce does not trump rationality.

Anonymous wrote:I don't regret having kids but I didn't realize how much is was a forever thing. The joys and sorrows that come with them don't dissipate with age.

+1

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Anonymous wrote:Well, I will raise my hand, and hang my head in shame.

I suspect most people here either have kids who have launched, and thus have some more distance, or, as some previous poster, have very young kids.

I have a tween and a teen, and if you had asked me even two years ago, I would have said that my kids are amazing, that I love them more than my own life, and that I couldn't imagine my life without them. The first two of those statements still hold true, but over the past year I have been longingly daydreaming about the day when they are finally out of the house.

They both have some mild special needs, and the hormones are not helping, but they are both difficult, rude, argumentative, stubborn and dare I say lazy. We have spent countless hours and $ on various therapies for both, we put every support imaginable in place to help them, we spent a lot of time exposing them to every possible beneficial EC but let them chose their own path and interests in which we have been unfailingly supportive. Yet, they barely get by academically, are selfish and inconsiderate of the effort that it takes to keep our household running and meeting their every need, and take little to no responsibility for their own failings - everything is always someone else's fault.

I am sure that we as parents are partially to blame for this, but I am not sure what else we could have done. I have read many parenting books, taken classes, I am in therapy myself for the anxiety that keeps mounting because I worry so much about my children. We support them academically, help with homework, remind about projects, instrument practice, take them to playdates, drive them to and from their chosen sports, make sure they have enough downtime, spend enough time outdoors, provide healthy meals, travel to both fun and educational places, and yet, none of it seems to make any difference.

I fervently hope that this is just a stage, and that my smart, funny, sunny kids will eventually return to us, but right now I am dejected and almost dreading walking through the door each afternoon, only to be faced with a new drama, or some other way that I have allegedly failed them. I am not sure how much more of this I can take. So maybe you just caught me at a bad time, but if you are asking me today whether I regret having children, the answer is "yes, absolutely".

There, flame away.

no flaming here. *mutely hands PP glass of wine*

I'm not going to flame you either. But as someone who has raised a difficult kid (he's 21 now, and has turned out well!), I will tell you some things that helped me.

First, if you are feeling so dejected and unhappy (and who could blame you?), you need to ask yourself if you are doing too much for your kids. If you found a bit more balance, you'd feel better and they might actually do/be better. You need to ask yourself if they really need to do x activity that requires a boatload of work on your part. If they really need you to drive them to x or can they figure out a way to get there themselves. If they can do their own laundry, make their own lunches, get dinner for the family, spend Saturday morning vacuuming and tidying up, and if you need to go back to those old "when/then" statements you make with little kids. ("WHEN you vacuum the living room THEN I will drive you to practice. You have 10 minutes, better get moving or you will be late.") If there are privileges they are enjoying that need to be curtailed if they can't do the bare minimum of school work.

Also, consider the best parenting advice ever, given by the people who offer the local PEP parenting classes: Quick Taking It Personally (QTIP). The less personally you take their bad behavior/attitude, the better their behavior/attitude will be. Seriously. QTIP QTIP QTIP!!

Along these lines, IME, you can't argue tweens/teens into being grateful or appreciating the things you do for them. You can't argue them into *feeling* responsibility for the things that they've done. You can insist on certain behavior, but you can't insist on feelings. I found a fair bit of success with my very difficult tween/teen when I set standards for what was acceptable behavior and stopped trying to get him to feel bad for how he had behaved or for hurting someone's feelings or whatever. So, e.g., saying "I'm not going to talk to you when you use that tone of voice. Let me know when you're ready to discuss this" and walking away, rather than getting into a lecture/argument about how his tone was hurtful or how he should be treating me better because I am his mother and do so much for him, etc. Don't listen to arguments about how it's someone else's fault that x happened, but also don't insist that they voice responsibility or apologize. Instead, for internal family matters cut off the excuses and skip the required apology phase and move on to the solutions to/consequences for the problem: "It don't want to hear about whose fault it is. I need you to (specific instruction for dealing with problem) now." (Of course, for problems outside of the family, apologizing/expressing regret may really be a necessary part of the solution/consequence.)

I hope this doesn't come across as lecturing or insensitive. I really do understand how you are feeling and sympathize so much. I hope this stage passes quickly for your family. (PS., it IS a stage. Eventually, they move out!)

Never. I sometimes miss the freedom that people without kids have and I don’t think my life will ever be as carefree as before I had kids, but being a mother is one of the best parts of my life.

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Anonymous wrote:If I had known how hard it was going to be and how much of my life would have been affected, I may have made a different choice. Once they are here, there is no going back.

I am grateful that my mother was pretty clear with me on this. Yes, it was also hard knowing she regretted having kids, but it saved me from making the same mistake. Her words were basically 'think long and hard before you do it, because there's no way out for the rest of your life'. I am a content DINK with a fun, meaningful life, and I get to be honorary aunt to my friends' children.

Sorry but you are probably 32. Some day you will long for kids.

I'm assuming you are a troll but, in case you are not... Every person I know who is DINK by choice is very happy with no regrets.

If they had kids just to please naysayers like yoi, they'd probably end up on that Facebook page.

Content DINK PP here. I am 43.

Definitely don't regret my two children.
Not even for a minute. I don't think many people do.
Certainly all our friends are very happy having children - and they have continued their socializing, travelling etc., more than us actually. The children have enhanced everyone's lives. I have two close friends now that I wouldn't have had (mothers of my childrens' friends - one from each!)

Anonymous wrote:If you regret having children, then you are a miserable, self-centered excuse for a human being, and very obviously a crappy parent.

The only miserable excuse for a human being here is you. Stop with the martyr shit.

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Anonymous wrote:I always had an aversion to kids, the thought of a mini-me physically creeped me out, so I basically had no maternal instinct. I've met quite a few women later who also admitted that they had no instinct and didn't miss having kids either. It's a dirty little secret as supposedly that's not possible.

Just out of curiosity: are all these women came from dysfunctional families? I always assume there is some childhood trauma, depressed mom or something else that contributed to suppressing an instinct. Some women end up suppressing their sexual instincts, some maternal. But from what I've seen, there is always a reason for why they doing it.

Infertility is the reason I don't have children. Now I'm happily childfree. I do have other friends who have chosen not to have children. They all come from loving normal families where their siblings have kids but they aren't interested. We are all different with different interests - not everyone is going to want to have kids. Now that women have more choice, this is a choice society will probably see more of in the future.

I have also seen plenty of moms from dysfunctional families who have children thinking they will do better with their own kids. Unfortunately most of them fail and only a couple manage to break the cycle.

Anonymous wrote:Well, my situation is atypical, but I'll share it anyway. Got married relatively late, really wanted to have children, underwent multiple fertility treatments and, finally, had my precious DC in my late 30s. Three years later, out of the blue, I was diagnosed with cancer that I've been fighting, on and off, for the last 4 years. It has been hell.. so on my worst days, I toss and turn in bed thinking that, if it only were the two of us, DH and me, the cancer struggle would have been, in a weird way, easier for me. Now not only do I have to parent through all of this, I face a very real possibility of dying on my still very young one-and-only
And, as you all can imagine, would suck so much more than just a childless woman dying in her mid-forties.

Thank you for the dose of perspective, PP. I'm sorry you have to wage this fight. I hope you win it.