geez, if asian students won some ELA competition I bet someone on DCUM is definitely going to find some sort of evidence showing that ELA does not require gifts too!

Anonymous wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/math/comments/3dt0oi/how_do_the_top_imo_contestants_become_so/#ampf=undefined

I had just stumbled upon this reddit discussion a couple weeks ago. I find the subject of math fascinating as of late. I have a middle school aged child who all of a sudden is taking off in math and seems really good at it.

I always viewed math ability as a gift. Apparently it’s not. It’s interesting to me how this myth is perpetuated. I think people good at math do like to be looked up to as magicians. Contest math is great—but it is not uncovering exceptional math gifts. The contests do celebrate hard work which is outstanding. But these aren’t necessarily the kids who will further the field with a math discovery.

From the Reddit linked above:

A lot of math people get a complex about whether they have the natural ability to solve this stuff, but I swear there are like <100 tricks that are used to solve every contest problem ever. When these standard tricks don't show up, almost everyone (except the lucky few who happen upon an original idea that works in the given time or who have seen a rare trick that works, often in a paper somewhere) gets #rekt. [Personal aside: I distinctly remember the first time I stopped seeing IMO contestants as magicians. It was when I saw the country results for the 2011 IMO P2, the famous "windmill" problem, which did not really involve standard tricks in its solution. It wasn't supposed to be the hardest problem on the first day of the contest, but even very good teams uniformly did poorly on it.

I believe everyone is talented, this or that way. For K-12 math, you don't need to be talented at all to get an A. But to further the field with a math discovery, you need talent and diligence. I'm the PP with mathematician husband and friends by the way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How come Asian Americans excel only in STEM?

I’m sure this isn’t completely true, but it certainly seems like it. Is it because math is easier to excel in by simply working ahead? I understand that Asian culture values hard work over innate gifts. With math you don’t need to be gifted. You just have to study, study, study. So maybe math is more straightforward than language arts in that regard. Math? You just work ahead—either in weekend school, kumon, Kahn, or with mom or dad.

Oh, my, you think the US. Math Olympiad team can win the first place this year simple because all Asian-American team members study hard? By the way, if you haven't noticed, this year the entire team is made of Chinese and Indian Americans, all boys, extremely politically incorrect.

https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2018/july/us-wins-math-olympiad.html

Actually. Yeah, I do. Mathematicians agree. Math competitions are something you work hard at. It’s all about study, study, study.

Sorry, my husband is a mathematician. I have a PhD in physics. A handful of our college classmates won gold medals from math olympiad or physics olympiad, some of whom are math or physics professors now. We even have a friend nominated for Fields Medal. None of us believe that math only requires study, study and study. You need talent to master it.

Nobel prize-winning theoretical physicist Richard Feynman disagrees with you —

“You ask me if an ordinary person by studying hard would get to be able to imagine these things like i imagine. Of Course!..I was an ordinary person who studied hard. There is no miracle people. It just happened they got interested in these things and they learned all these stuff. They’re just people!!There is no talent special miracle ability to understand quantum mechanics or a miracle ability to imagine electromagnetic fields that comes without practice and reading and learning and mathematics. So if you say you take an ordinary person whose willing to devote a great deal of time on studying and thinking and mathematics and so on. Then he’s become a scientist!”

-Richard Feynman

Video of interview at: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lr8sVailoLw

BTW, he says some very interesting stuff in the rest of the video about the individuality of the way in which each human brain stores information. Worth thinking about as we consider who is “smart” or “not smart”. As a long time tutor with considerable experience working with students with learning disabilities, I can see how different explanations resonate with different students, and that the typical public school teacher rarely has more than one way to explain concepts.

OK, let's see how many ppl here believe Feymann is an ordinary hard-working man, not a genius. At the genius level, you can certainly say "I learn everything because I'm working hard."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/math/comments/3dt0oi/how_do_the_top_imo_contestants_become_so/#ampf=undefined

I had just stumbled upon this reddit discussion a couple weeks ago. I find the subject of math fascinating as of late. I have a middle school aged child who all of a sudden is taking off in math and seems really good at it.

I always viewed math ability as a gift. Apparently it’s not. It’s interesting to me how this myth is perpetuated. I think people good at math do like to be looked up to as magicians. Contest math is great—but it is not uncovering exceptional math gifts. The contests do celebrate hard work which is outstanding. But these aren’t necessarily the kids who will further the field with a math discovery.

From the Reddit linked above:

A lot of math people get a complex about whether they have the natural ability to solve this stuff, but I swear there are like <100 tricks that are used to solve every contest problem ever. When these standard tricks don't show up, almost everyone (except the lucky few who happen upon an original idea that works in the given time or who have seen a rare trick that works, often in a paper somewhere) gets #rekt. [Personal aside: I distinctly remember the first time I stopped seeing IMO contestants as magicians. It was when I saw the country results for the 2011 IMO P2, the famous "windmill" problem, which did not really involve standard tricks in its solution. It wasn't supposed to be the hardest problem on the first day of the contest, but even very good teams uniformly did poorly on it.

if that is the case, maybe we can assume that the 'achievement gap" that MCPS trying so hard and desperately to close is just caused by some group of students being lazy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How come Asian Americans excel only in STEM?

I’m sure this isn’t completely true, but it certainly seems like it. Is it because math is easier to excel in by simply working ahead? I understand that Asian culture values hard work over innate gifts. With math you don’t need to be gifted. You just have to study, study, study. So maybe math is more straightforward than language arts in that regard. Math? You just work ahead—either in weekend school, kumon, Kahn, or with mom or dad.

Oh, my, you think the US. Math Olympiad team can win the first place this year simple because all Asian-American team members study hard? By the way, if you haven't noticed, this year the entire team is made of Chinese and Indian Americans, all boys, extremely politically incorrect.

https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2018/july/us-wins-math-olympiad.html

Actually. Yeah, I do. Mathematicians agree. Math competitions are something you work hard at. It’s all about study, study, study.

Sorry, my husband is a mathematician. I have a PhD in physics. A handful of our college classmates won gold medals from math olympiad or physics olympiad, some of whom are math or physics professors now. We even have a friend nominated for Fields Medal. None of us believe that math only requires study, study and study. You need talent to master it.

Nobel prize-winning theoretical physicist Richard Feynman disagrees with you —

“You ask me if an ordinary person by studying hard would get to be able to imagine these things like i imagine. Of Course!..I was an ordinary person who studied hard. There is no miracle people. It just happened they got interested in these things and they learned all these stuff. They’re just people!!There is no talent special miracle ability to understand quantum mechanics or a miracle ability to imagine electromagnetic fields that comes without practice and reading and learning and mathematics. So if you say you take an ordinary person whose willing to devote a great deal of time on studying and thinking and mathematics and so on. Then he’s become a scientist!”

-Richard Feynman

Video of interview at: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lr8sVailoLw

BTW, he says some very interesting stuff in the rest of the video about the individuality of the way in which each human brain stores information. Worth thinking about as we consider who is “smart” or “not smart”. As a long time tutor with considerable experience working with students with learning disabilities, I can see how different explanations resonate with different students, and that the typical public school teacher rarely has more than one way to explain concepts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How come Asian Americans excel only in STEM?

I’m sure this isn’t completely true, but it certainly seems like it. Is it because math is easier to excel in by simply working ahead? I understand that Asian culture values hard work over innate gifts. With math you don’t need to be gifted. You just have to study, study, study. So maybe math is more straightforward than language arts in that regard. Math? You just work ahead—either in weekend school, kumon, Kahn, or with mom or dad.

Oh, my, you think the US. Math Olympiad team can win the first place this year simple because all Asian-American team members study hard? By the way, if you haven't noticed, this year the entire team is made of Chinese and Indian Americans, all boys, extremely politically incorrect.

https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2018/july/us-wins-math-olympiad.html

Actually. Yeah, I do. Mathematicians agree. Math competitions are something you work hard at. It’s all about study, study, study.

Sorry, my husband is a mathematician. I have a PhD in physics. A handful of our college classmates won gold medals from math olympiad or physics olympiad, some of whom are math or physics professors now. We even have a friend nominated for Fields Medal. None of us believe that math only requires study, study and study. You need talent to master it.

Nobel prize-winning theoretical physicist Richard Feynman disagrees with you —

“You ask me if an ordinary person by studying hard would get to be able to imagine these things like i imagine. Of Course!..I was an ordinary person who studied hard. There is no miracle people. It just happened they got interested in these things and they learned all these stuff. They’re just people!!There is no talent special miracle ability to understand quantum mechanics or a miracle ability to imagine electromagnetic fields that comes without practice and reading and learning and mathematics. So if you say you take an ordinary person whose willing to devote a great deal of time on studying and thinking and mathematics and so on. Then he’s become a scientist!”

-Richard Feynman

Video of interview at: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lr8sVailoLw

BTW, he says some very interesting stuff in the rest of the video about the individuality of the way in which each human brain stores information. Worth thinking about as we consider who is “smart” or “not smart”. As a long time tutor with considerable experience working with students with learning disabilities, I can see how different explanations resonate with different students, and that the typical public school teacher rarely has more than one way to explain concepts.

Anonymous wrote:

I didn’t bring up math Olympiad. My point was with math, in grades k-12, it’s easy to study ahead in math. I think it’s harder in ELA.

Actually it is much easier to "work ahead" in ELA than math. I agree with others that you are a moron to think that math only requires Kumon and doesn't involve IQ just repetition and "working ahead". Sadly, your attitude mirrors much of MCPS and others in the county that just can't wrap their heads around the fact that many of the Asian American students in this area are BOTH smarter and work harder than the white kids.

I disagree. Prepping for ELA is much harder. It takes a lot more work to see benefits beyond what reading alone achieves. With math you just learn the concepts year by year. ELA is less conceptually driven. You certainly can prep ELA but it is much harder. This isn’t an Asian thing. It’s harder for all students, which is why you see more perfect scores in math than verbal.

Asian Americans are not smarter. No ethnic group is smarter than another. I do think Asian Americans work harder than white kids. It’s a cultural thing.

I have experience at a kumon center. It was 99% non-white. And it didn’t stop there. Because all those parents has formed a network of tutoring resources and prep material. They also all had the same goals for their children. They talked very openly about it. I can also say that most of these kids were not what white parents would call “bright” or “gifted”. It doesn’t matter to anyone there. The parents want hard work.

It’s just a cultural thing. White people think their kids just “are” gifted. They want their kids to be invited without trying. This is the antithesis of what’s happening in the kumon community.

There is no right or wrong. My only warning would be that doing something earlier or faster than peers doesn’t make someone more intelligent. Hard work should be something valued. Intelligence is not fixed. I truly believe this. But there is also something to be said about a race to nowhere, kids missing out on childhood, and instruction lacking opportunities for creative thinking arguments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian-Americans have parents who are also very well educated and intelligent. This gives them an edge because the parents can actually teach and guide them. Their children can go to momor dad if they can't understand a Math concept or want to have a discussion about Homer and Shakespeare. This is a big edge.

What??!?

No freakin way. I was born to Asian immigrant parents and my parents knew zilch about Shakespeare. My mom didn’t even go to college. Nobody at my house was discussing Homer.

However, they did really stress that I needed to do well in school and they expected me to do well.

What kind of crazy stereotype is that? Or are you just making excuses for why Acadian American students do well in school?

My immigrant parents only had an ES level education, so I win! Believe me, they weren't helping with HW, or going to back to school nights.

Same for most of my Asian friends growing up. Most of their parents were working long hours. They couldn't help with any HW, either.

Asians didn't start to immigrate here en masse until the 80s. The first wave were not the highly educated folks. They were blue collar workers and many ended up running their own small business because they lacked marketable skills and didn't know any English. The current crop of more educated Asian immigrants more than likely went to school in their home country, and came here as adults for work or grad school. I have no idea if they read any Shakespeare or Homer.

Anonymous wrote:Asian-Americans have parents who are also very well educated and intelligent. This gives them an edge because the parents can actually teach and guide them. Their children can go to momor dad if they can't understand a Math concept or want to have a discussion about Homer and Shakespeare. This is a big edge.

What??!?

No freakin way. I was born to Asian immigrant parents and my parents knew zilch about Shakespeare. My mom didn’t even go to college. Nobody at my house was discussing Homer.

However, they did really stress that I needed to do well in school and they expected me to do well.

What kind of crazy stereotype is that? Or are you just making excuses for why Acadian American students do well in school?

Anonymous wrote:Asian-Americans have parents who are also very well educated and intelligent. This gives them an edge because the parents can actually teach and guide them. Their children can go to momor dad if they can't understand a Math concept or want to have a discussion about Homer and Shakespeare. This is a big edge.

Are there a dearth of white parents in MCPS who aren't educated and intelligent?

exactly, these kids accomplished something amazing and congratulations to them!

I am Asian and believe it or not, Asian parents care about their kids' happiness and well being no less than any other parents, the stereotyping of painting Asian parents into "maniac and turn their kids into working robots" is just shocking and so out of touch of reality!

Anonymous wrote:It's so sad that we can't congratulate these obviously smart students without devolving into "Asian American students are pushed by their parents" discussion. Years (and I mean several years) ago when the winners were mostly white students, were there discussions about how those white kids must be pushed by their parents?

Anonymous wrote:There was a time when Asian American kids were behind in ELA than White students. No longer so. They are able to exceed and surpass in all fields that require hard work and brains

When or where is the country was that?
Their families and culture has high expectations for them to achieve. Parents know that actively demonstrating “I value education” is more tangible than lip service while doing little. .

Asian-Americans have parents who are also very well educated and intelligent. This gives them an edge because the parents can actually teach and guide them. Their children can go to momor dad if they can't understand a Math concept or want to have a discussion about Homer and Shakespeare. This is a big edge.

There was a time when Asian American kids were behind in ELA than White students. No longer so. They are able to exceed and surpass in all fields that require hard work and brains

I didn’t bring up math Olympiad. My point was with math, in grades k-12, it’s easy to study ahead in math. I think it’s harder in ELA.

Actually it is much easier to "work ahead" in ELA than math. I agree with others that you are a moron to think that math only requires Kumon and doesn't involve IQ just repetition and "working ahead". Sadly, your attitude mirrors much of MCPS and others in the county that just can't wrap their heads around the fact that many of the Asian American students in this area are BOTH smarter and work harder than the white kids.