I feel for you OP. I’m also a child of a low level hoarder. My kids have never spent the night at grandmas house because it’s not in any condition for them to stay there - and my oldest is in highschool. We also had lots of renovations the first few years in our house though not as dire as holes in the subfloor. I am fortunate that my DH does laundry and cook. Are you able to get your DH to take on some daily chores? I would phrase it as either or, like would he like laundry or cooking? Doing dishes or general cleanup of the kitchen(wipe down counters clean floor etc)?

When my kids were about 3 or so, I had a professional organizer help me clear clutter. I was overwhelmed and needed someone to help me get started. I also wanted to think of systems that could help me keep on top of things. I won’t claim victory because it’s like kicking a bad habit. Sometimes it doesn’t happen on the first try, it’s hard to change and easy to backslide. But what that foray taught me was to really think about your daily actions and what’s realistic. If the first thing you do is drop the mail, and the official place for the mail 20 feet into the house it’s never realistically going to make it there. We got a tabletop shredder in the kitchen near where the mail is sorted - it’s wonderful and way better than waiting than stacking it up and getting the basement shredder out. I set up action files and have a place to put the school papers like lunch forms that need action but not that minute. Every closet has a closet organizer (that was during an earlier organizing effort). As for motivation, for me the big purges often were tied to getting a room together. Like we were moving the kids into their own rooms and had to get the guest room cleared out. Having new furniture/paint was part of the motivation and once it was done and all that hard work, I wanted it to stay nice. As part of keeping things clean, the only thing that works is when I have a schedule to follow. For awhile, Friday evenings were clean bedding and start laundry. With the kids, the don’t get to do something they want to do, like watch tv, until clothes are put away. When they were much younger (4 or 5) we did chore pad app each night before bedtime and they could earn points for fun things they wanted to do. Besides wanting to not let things get so bad that it would cause contention in my marriage, I wanted to model better behavior for my kids so this wouldn’t be a burden in their relationships.

One last thing I wanted to ask, have you rented out the apartment yet that was the selling point of the house? I’m thinking if you have extra income maybe you can use the money to hire out for some of the House projects to get them done sooner. I remember when the kids were young when my DH would basically spend what seemed all weekend on errands for her house or lawn care. While those needed to be done, that left keeping the kids entertained, getting them to clean up (which takes 3 times as long as doing it yourself) plus trying to do my own cleaning/clutter reduction. What came of our conversations around that was he would take the kids out the house while I cleaned my own stuff , we would discuss getting the kids to clean and who would be in charge of it. He would sometimes take this on but also recognized it was the less pleasant of the weekend chore options. He was also more aware about coordinating errands and say ahead if he would be out of pocket doing errands in Saturday, I might use that time to get the kids out the house since I would need to be the parent in charge during that time anyway. Then maybe he would be on deck with the kids on Sunday and I could do my errands without the kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so bad for your kids.

Me too. I grew up like this and hated it. I have almost a visceral response to clutter now. I get I trouble with DH for donating stuff he still wanted (but to be fair never used.)

Look at this, OP. Look at it. Do you want your kids to feel uncomfortable in and embarrassed by their own home?

Get. Help.

Stop with the excuses. You're creating a horrible home for your children.

I actually hope OP and her husband get a divorce so that at least the kids can have a healthy environment half of the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think OP and her husband need to not take on new “projects” which she sort of uses as 1) an excuse for clutter and 2) a reason why her husband can’t do more day to day stuff.

This is not too say that I think OP’s husband should be constantly picking up after OP.

But I think decluttering should be “project” numero uno.

+1000

Yep. This is the project: Setting up your household to succeed day to day.

OP here: I wish I could stop the projects. We moved into a home that badly needed renovation about 2 years ago. It was “affordable” because it was scary...or at least it scared off everyone else. It was the only way to afford the location and the size that we wanted (inducements were bedroom for new baby and guest room, separate basement apartment with entry to street). It was old and creepy and had dolls hanging from the chandelier. I wanted turn-key because I was pregnant and was too tired for anything else. DH said that it was nice to have the basement be a separate apartment to rent out, and — this is what sold me— that there would be a separate space for my parents and if we bought it then he’d agree that my parents could live there. I would love for them to be near me and out of their house.

I like to visit more frequently. We visit about once or twice a month. They are getting old and don’t drive as much and hate driving and parking in the city. (The other solution is self-driving cars.)

Before we bought our home, I said it was too big and would ruin us/our marriage: between the revenovation and maintenance of the new home (2x bigger), renovation and sale of the old home, the new baby, and (to me) heating bills, I was really worried. I can’t undo our decision to buy so we are stuck with these projects.

Sorry ? for complaining about a big home but I feel like I should have kept firm and kept warning DH instead of capitulating: be careful when you get what you wanted. There was a reason why other buyers skipped bidding on the listing. I agreed to this situation so “for better or for worse” so I must keep those projects. Although there the urgency has decreased: renovating the second, second-floor bathroom (think exposed subfloor and hole in floor) is less urgent/important than the earlier projects: first upstairs bathroom and powder room on first floor. I will really have to think about it. I will dial back on the parties but the family visits include my sister bringing her 2-year old DS to my home for a (ideally weekly but avg 2-3 weeks) play date with mine (toddlers are 3 weeks apart). I am really against cutting back in those.

The COH Web site looks great, and it’ll keep from anything rash for a while. Thanks.

OP, I feel for you. Fixer-uppers are so, so difficult, and it sounds like some of your projects really do need to be done. Others (like craft projects) really don't-- your kids will be happier with an orderly house than with the experience of making a craft. They can do crafts later.

Are you someone who has a hard time parting with things if you think they will be wasted? Craft stuff will be happily accepted by most preschools or elementary school art teachers. Just drop it right off and know that you're doing a good deed and decluttering all in one.

Anonymous wrote:So not only do you have clutter everywhere you also have a hole in the bathroom floor.

This just keeps getting better and better.

Yup. And she has an entire room full of project “supplies” waiting for the projects to be done. How much do you want to bet OP and her husband go months without making ANY progress on their projects they bought all this crap for!

OP, sell the house as is and buy a move in ready condo. I think your marriage depends on it.

So not only do you have clutter everywhere you also have a hole in the bathroom floor.

This just keeps getting better and better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think OP and her husband need to not take on new “projects” which she sort of uses as 1) an excuse for clutter and 2) a reason why her husband can’t do more day to day stuff.

This is not too say that I think OP’s husband should be constantly picking up after OP.

But I think decluttering should be “project” numero uno.

+1000

Yep. This is the project: Setting up your household to succeed day to day.

OP here: I wish I could stop the projects. We moved into a home that badly needed renovation about 2 years ago. It was “affordable” because it was scary...or at least it scared off everyone else. It was the only way to afford the location and the size that we wanted (inducements were bedroom for new baby and guest room, separate basement apartment with entry to street). It was old and creepy and had dolls hanging from the chandelier. I wanted turn-key because I was pregnant and was too tired for anything else. DH said that it was nice to have the basement be a separate apartment to rent out, and — this is what sold me— that there would be a separate space for my parents and if we bought it then he’d agree that my parents could live there. I would love for them to be near me and out of their house.

I like to visit more frequently. We visit about once or twice a month. They are getting old and don’t drive as much and hate driving and parking in the city. (The other solution is self-driving cars.)

Before we bought our home, I said it was too big and would ruin us/our marriage: between the revenovation and maintenance of the new home (2x bigger), renovation and sale of the old home, the new baby, and (to me) heating bills, I was really worried. I can’t undo our decision to buy so we are stuck with these projects.

Sorry ? for complaining about a big home but I feel like I should have kept firm and kept warning DH instead of capitulating: be careful when you get what you wanted. There was a reason why other buyers skipped bidding on the listing. I agreed to this situation so “for better or for worse” so I must keep those projects. Although there the urgency has decreased: renovating the second, second-floor bathroom (think exposed subfloor and hole in floor) is less urgent/important than the earlier projects: first upstairs bathroom and powder room on first floor. I will really have to think about it. I will dial back on the parties but the family visits include my sister bringing her 2-year old DS to my home for a (ideally weekly but avg 2-3 weeks) play date with mine (toddlers are 3 weeks apart). I am really against cutting back in those.

The COH Web site looks great, and it’ll keep from anything rash for a while. Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am married to a neat freak. We have house cleaners, nanny and cook who all clean and DH is still complaining about clutter and toys. We have a four car garage where one bay is used for storage and it bothers DH immensely. We have 3 kids and he wants no toys on the main level. He is constantly barking at kids to clean up.

My DH would divorce you over messiness.

Just get cleaners and stop buying shit in advance. Why would you have bought next years gifts already? Seems like an easy solution.

DP
I’d divorce your DH for being such an ass.

+1

For the OP:
There are a lot of good resources at childrenofhoarders.com and by doing a web search for adult children of hoarders. My parents are low-level hoarders, don't maintain possessions, don't organize them, get very touchy if you try to throw anything away, didn't create homey spaces in our house for people to relax in. Much of our house was given over to storage, multiple rooms full of cast-offs, etc.

It has given me a strange relationship with 'stuff'. I'm actually a minimalist and my husband jokes about my tendency to throw away and donate everything when he's on a business trip. I can't abide having anything broken in our home. It makes me so nervous and uncomfortable.

My kids say our house is so empty it's uncomfortable.

I hate the fact that my sentimental husband keeps things as mementos. I'm like 'scan that photo and you don't need that dusty old photo album.'

As I have learned more about my parents' disorder and how it has affected me, I am better able to discuss these issues with my husband.

By the way, the COH website has a great page which describes the difference between have a collection which is carefully chosen and maintained, stored in an orderly fashion -- vs. hoarding. Well worth a read.

Anonymous wrote:I also think OP and her husband need to not take on new “projects” which she sort of uses as 1) an excuse for clutter and 2) a reason why her husband can’t do more day to day stuff.

This is not too say that I think OP’s husband should be constantly picking up after OP.

But I think decluttering should be “project” numero uno.

+1000

Yep. This is the project: Setting up your household to succeed day to day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you a hoarder? Or have not had the time to get rid of items so they go in a bin until you get around to it?

Hoarder - you need mental health support. If it is that you have not clean-up and gotten rid of items - you need help (time and hands) to make this happen.

Music teacher here. We get stuff in boxes and store instruments in boxes and containers. The part time teacher who is here once a week complained to other teachers that I was a hoarder because of the way the music closet looked.
On the day she comes here to work, she has much more free time than I do. She has not once offered to help.
I come to work every other Sunday just to arrange the closet. Within 3-4 days, it starts to look messy again.
I have tried to have the students help me -- in past years I have gotten lucky. This year, they just stack things on top of each other and put the instruments in random containers creating more work for me.

Having things in order and being neat takes time and is a team effort. if I had the extra money I would have hired someone to do it.

I am not a hoarder.

then you need to get rid of stuff
-Get rid of things you were thinking of using sometime in the future but have no definite plans for use or won't use for a few years
-Ask for some place for long term storage for boxes that will actually get used

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you a hoarder? Or have not had the time to get rid of items so they go in a bin until you get around to it?

Hoarder - you need mental health support. If it is that you have not clean-up and gotten rid of items - you need help (time and hands) to make this happen.

Music teacher here. We get stuff in boxes and store instruments in boxes and containers. The part time teacher who is here once a week complained to other teachers that I was a hoarder because of the way the music closet looked.
On the day she comes here to work, she has much more free time than I do. She has not once offered to help.
I come to work every other Sunday just to arrange the closet. Within 3-4 days, it starts to look messy again.
I have tried to have the students help me -- in past years I have gotten lucky. This year, they just stack things on top of each other and put the instruments in random containers creating more work for me.

Having things in order and being neat takes time and is a team effort. if I had the extra money I would have hired someone to do it.

I am not a hoarder.

My teacher friends have so. much. stuff...
Always stacks of papers, bags and bins of things for the class, etc... the amount of it is overwhelming. Their trunks are usually overflowing every time i've seen them.
I give you guys credit, it's a lot to manage.

Anonymous wrote:Are you a hoarder? Or have not had the time to get rid of items so they go in a bin until you get around to it?

Hoarder - you need mental health support. If it is that you have not clean-up and gotten rid of items - you need help (time and hands) to make this happen.

Music teacher here. We get stuff in boxes and store instruments in boxes and containers. The part time teacher who is here once a week complained to other teachers that I was a hoarder because of the way the music closet looked.
On the day she comes here to work, she has much more free time than I do. She has not once offered to help.
I come to work every other Sunday just to arrange the closet. Within 3-4 days, it starts to look messy again.
I have tried to have the students help me -- in past years I have gotten lucky. This year, they just stack things on top of each other and put the instruments in random containers creating more work for me.

Having things in order and being neat takes time and is a team effort. if I had the extra money I would have hired someone to do it.

I am not a hoarder.

I used to be like you OP.

A few years ago we were selling our house and we had to put in storage a ton of stuff from our main living areas and our realtor brought in a professional stager. After the staging, it looked just like those homes in magazines and I loved it! I realized that yes, it was very possible to have a home look that way and still live in it.

We moved and I have been able to maintain that kind of home for years. Here is what it took:

Packing up all the stuff I thought was clutter to put in storage. Then getting someone else to come in and tell me that no, there was still clutter and to pack up more.

Not buying anything new for the house - toys, decorations, craft projects, gifts for the future and so on - because we were moving and we had no where to put them for the short term. Just not doing that for two months really curtailed the habit.

Since nothing but some minor paperwork and mail was coming into the house everyday, I was able to easily keep up with that by putting it away each day. Laundry, groceries, and toys got put right away because we couldn't have any of it lying around. It was also easier to do because I didn't have the exhaustion of looking around and seeing all the other clutter I had not yet cleaned up. It made putting away those few things seem easy and doable not overwhelming.

Once we moved into our new home, we kept the storage unit and didn't go to it for almost 2 years. We finally cleaned it out one Saturday morning. We thought it would take hours but it actually took only about 1 hr and we got rid of 95% of the stuff.

so maybe consider decluttering like you are going to move. then go ahead and pay a stager to come in and stage the rooms. You would be amazed what seeing your home in that state can do for your motivation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so bad for your kids.

Me too. I grew up like this and hated it. I have almost a visceral response to clutter now. I get I trouble with DH for donating stuff he still wanted (but to be fair never used.)

Look at this, OP. Look at it. Do you want your kids to feel uncomfortable in and embarrassed by their own home?

Get. Help.

Stop with the excuses. You're creating a horrible home for your children.

First, kudos to OP because she seems genuinely interested in taking feedback from folks writing in.

A few observations...

Like others, I do think you have some hoarding stuff going on. Of course it could be worse, but the threshold is does it have a negative impact on your life, I from everything you've described, it does.

When I hear you describe the nature of your clutter, it seems to be around various projects. You seem to have a really strong need to take on these projects (the crafting, the large amount of Xmas decorations and advanced shopping, etc.) None of these things are particularly urgent or necessary. Of course it's healthy to have a hobby, but not at the expense of tidy, functional home.

You need to get realistic about your time, and pair down to what you actually need, and maybe one project/hobby that you only keep stuff for that you are actively doing.

The thing that REALLY jumped out at me was when you said you suggested to your husband that the way to keep down on the clutter was to do more hosting, which would force you to clean up.

Stop and think about that for a second, and think about how a statement like that might land for your husband. It's once again an example that you have put all of your priorities and focus on "extras" like parties, rather than the regular running of your house. It's also a sign that you value the comfort and care of guests over the comfort of your own family Of course we all have the extra motivation to clean up for guests, but for you have taken this normal reality and are living an extreme version of this. Your house is in chaos right now, and your entire family is forced to move around and through it, and the only way they can get relief from it, and the only time you can be bothered to control it, is when other people come over.

If I were your husband, I would feel very helpless and devalued.
You've got to reset and refocus. You've let projects, holidays over a year off, and parties and activities for other people take up not only all of the physical space in your house, but also the mental space in your brain. There is no space left, either physically or mentally for your immediate family.

I don't think you are doing this because you are selfish or don't love your family. I think as others have pointed out you are burdened with the mental baggage of growing up with a hoarding model, and it has led to disordered thinking in this area.
The great news is that you seem to have already begun to have some self-awareness of this, and I think with counseling you can really turn this around.

I'm rooting for you, OP. Good luck.