Anonymous wrote:Throughout these years I found out there are few dedicated teachers who invest in their classrooms, their young students and love to teach. They walk through the classroom, desk by desk, checking on students to answer questions and provide feedback on each student’s work. They give interactive lessons, welcome inquisitive minds, give daily small rewards for good behavior, keep calm and are honest to parents. They do all this without expecting gifts from parents. They don’t bark at students. They don’t complain about their jobs. They keep focused and teach on.

LOL! You’re hilarious. When is the last time you set foot in a classroom?

I’m wondering if the students in this scenario are respectful, have parents who tell them “no,” aren’t screen-addicted from infant age, have no attention or sensory issues, have a two-parent household where the basics are provided, and so on.

Because if so, you really are a hoot!!

Look, either you work 10 months and then divide your salary over those 10 months, in which case it's higher but you aren't working those two months... OR you work 12 months and divide you salary over those 12 months and make less per month.

The reason we should pay teachers more is to get smarter people competing for the jobs.

Yup, there's a lot to complain about. There are a lot in most jobs especially mission-based jobs that don't have high requirements for entry.

NP (a teacher). So tired of hearing this! I too, had a challenging career before becoming a teacher. I went to a top-flight college, as did many of my teacher colleagues. We ARE smart and can match wits with anyone in the private sector, thank you very much.

Throughout these years I found out there are few dedicated teachers who invest in their classrooms, their young students and love to teach. They walk through the classroom, desk by desk, checking on students to answer questions and provide feedback on each student’s work. They give interactive lessons, welcome inquisitive minds, give daily small rewards for good behavior, keep calm and are honest to parents. They do all this without expecting gifts from parents. They don’t bark at students. They don’t complain about their jobs. They keep focused and teach on.

Anonymous wrote:Do teachers sign contracts that force them to stay for a certain amount of years?

Only if they went to a university partnership program. But they can’t quit in the middle of the year unless they never want to teach again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am tired of people dumping on teachers and assuming they only work from 8 until 3. Teachers aren't paid enough! My kids went to DCPS, one is in HS and two have graduated. Sure there were duds along the way, but overall I am so impressed and grateful for the wonderful teachers my kids have had. Just shut up, unless you have actually taught in a classroom.

Teacher here and I completely agree with this. People have no idea. But after putting up with crap for years I do the best I can now ro manage my time wisely and only work contract hours. Also don’t spend my own money anymore. There’s a difference between what’s absolutely necessary and what’s nice to have. I wish my fellow teachers would stop being martyrs since it makes the rest of us look like we should be working for free, too. I’m not.

This times a million. My school has a bunch of martyrs who then set the precedent and idea that we all should do what they’re doing and if we don’t then we don’t care about the kids enough.

My admin had a new “innovative” idea to have teachers and stsff volunteer their lunch or planning time to cover in school suspension. AKA have others deal with it so they don’t have to. They send out a google form for people to sign up for shifts. I was flabbergasted when the first one filled up almost immediately. So now the precedent has been set and instead of admin dealing with the kids in ISS and the kid sitting in the office (which they said was too much fun for the kid) the kid gets a rotation of different staff sitting with them all day long.

The martyr mentality can be contagious and it’s easy to get caught up in it. It took me many years to see it and change it. No, I’m not volunteering my lunch or planning time to babysit a kid in ISS. I already work straight through my lunch and the time I am spending babysitting a kid in ISS is time I’m not doing my own work which means I’ll have to do even more at night or on the weekend. Nope.

Do teachers sign contracts that force them to stay for a certain amount of years?

Anonymous wrote:In literally every other job, if you need to go to the bathroom, you get up and go. Have you ever considered that? If a teacher has to go to the restroom, they have to wait a few hours for lunch, or somehow magically find an extra adult that is certified to be alone with the children in the classroom, without leaving the room or using a phone.

Someone pointed that out to me, and that is tortuous.

That is 'literally" not true.

Anonymous wrote:I am tired of people dumping on teachers and assuming they only work from 8 until 3. Teachers aren't paid enough! My kids went to DCPS, one is in HS and two have graduated. Sure there were duds along the way, but overall I am so impressed and grateful for the wonderful teachers my kids have had. Just shut up, unless you have actually taught in a classroom.

Teacher here and I completely agree with this. People have no idea. But after putting up with crap for years I do the best I can now ro manage my time wisely and only work contract hours. Also don’t spend my own money anymore. There’s a difference between what’s absolutely necessary and what’s nice to have. I wish my fellow teachers would stop being martyrs since it makes the rest of us look like we should be working for free, too. I’m not.

Teacher in my 18th year here. I think a lot of teachers would be fine with the salary if working conditions were a bit better— smaller classes, more planning time, more support for kids with behavioral issues.

You’re asked to literally do the impossible every day with competing demands and ever-increasing requirements, and there’s a sense that no matter how hard you work, you’re going to fail. That’s what is hardest for me.

I spent a few years in private (at this school, about 10K less in salary than public) and the quality of life was really so much better- I had to take work home much more rarely because I had sufficient planning time during the day. I went back to public mainly to shorten my commute. Still figuring out if it’s worth it. I love my kids but damn.

I mean, if the complainers “just quit,” you’ve got about 3% of the workforce left. So there’s that.

But I also get that until you do it, it’s hard to understand. It looks like an easy gig from the outside.

I am tired of people dumping on teachers and assuming they only work from 8 until 3. Teachers aren't paid enough! My kids went to DCPS, one is in HS and two have graduated. Sure there were duds along the way, but overall I am so impressed and grateful for the wonderful teachers my kids have had. Just shut up, unless you have actually taught in a classroom.

I worked in finance for ten years, then went back to school and became a teacher. Taught high school for 15 years. Teaching was much more stressful than moving millions of dollars around every day, for all of the reasons PPs have stated above. But those things were nothing compared to the following true stories that happened in my teaching career:

1. Immigrant father who worked three jobs to give his kids a better life, crying one night in my classroom because his son, who had done well through middle school, was getting involved in a gang and drugs, and not coming to school anymore. I'll never forget his face - looking to me for answers - how can he save his son?

2. Kids coming to class high; one day when I was being observed by my Principal, a boy who was clearly under the influence, fell out of his desk onto the floor.

3. Fight in the lunchroom; boy smashed another boy over the head with a skateboard, sending him to the hospital with a serious head injury. Boy gets expelled for the rest of the school year, but comes back the next year because public school can't kick anyone out. The District actually tried to send him to some alternative program, but his parents lawyered up and the District didn't want to spend the money to fight them in court. This kid was pretty violent and everyone, including teachers, were scared of him.

4. Middle school kids having sex behind the school, after school. True story.

5. Teaching girls who are very smart, but who acted dumb in front of the boys. This happened regularly and drove me crazy. Also, boys sexually harassing the girls. For example, I had a student named Ina, and when she walked into the classroom, boys chanting "Ina, Ina, give me some vagina." Disciplining them doesn't really work unless you have parent support. Many parents support their kids over the teachers and administration.

6. One of my favorite students (yeah I know we're not supposed to have favorites - but we do), an absolutely delightful boy whom I had in two classes his Junior year, committed suicide two months before graduation. The whole school was devastated. Watching his father sobbing on his casket at his funeral was unbearable.

That was the final straw for me - I left the classroom after that year.

Oh - and all of the above took place in affluent, suburban school systems. I could tell many more stories, but you get the picture. So, while the paperwork, planning, disrespect, etc. can take a toll on teachers, it was the emotional stuff that really got to me after many years. I spent numerous hours counseling kids after school - which I was happy to do, but I was not trained as a psychologist so I could only help based on my life experiences and common sense. Schools really need to have an experienced, well-trained counseling staff. Not the kind that helps kids pick their classes and apply for college. But trained therapists who kids can turn to in confidence to help them navigate their very stressful lives.

Anonymous wrote:Imagine you had to run a meeting 6-7 hours a day. You had to lead the meeting--agenda, content, presentations, discussions, work output, materials, everything. During that meeting, you can't check email or make a phone call. And in between the 6-7 hour meeting, you have smaller 20-1 hour meetings.

Imagine 25 of the 30 participants do not want to be there and don't have the ability to pay attention or follow directions. And you have to keep them on track.

Imagine you had to give immediate feedback/evaluations from today's meeting to every participant.

Imagine after running that meeting, you have to plan and prepare for tomorrow's 6-7 hour meeting.

Imagine if your participants fail to perform or have substandard work product, you are blamed.

Imagine never having an off day. Never spending a day just dealing with the little things.

Imagine it keeps going, day after day. It's exhausting to have to plan and manage every minute of every day for 30-150 participants.

I used to be a teacher. I miss it every day. But I'd never go back. The daily grind with no support staff to handle things was just too much. If I got a secretary, Id totally go back.

Until you've done it, you just don't understand.

This is one of the better summaries I’ve read

Look, either you work 10 months and then divide your salary over those 10 months, in which case it's higher but you aren't working those two months... OR you work 12 months and divide you salary over those 12 months and make less per month.

The reason we should pay teachers more is to get smarter people competing for the jobs.

Yup, there's a lot to complain about. There are a lot in most jobs especially mission-based jobs that don't have high requirements for entry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine you had to run a meeting 6-7 hours a day. You had to lead the meeting--agenda, content, presentations, discussions, work output, materials, everything. During that meeting, you can't check email or make a phone call. And in between the 6-7 hour meeting, you have smaller 20-1 hour meetings.

Imagine 25 of the 30 participants do not want to be there and don't have the ability to pay attention or follow directions. And you have to keep them on track.

Imagine you had to give immediate feedback/evaluations from today's meeting to every participant.

Imagine after running that meeting, you have to plan and prepare for tomorrow's 6-7 hour meeting.

Imagine if your participants fail to perform or have substandard work product, you are blamed.

Imagine never having an off day. Never spending a day just dealing with the little things.

Imagine it keeps going, day after day. It's exhausting to have to plan and manage every minute of every day for 30-150 participants.

I used to be a teacher. I miss it every day. But I'd never go back. The daily grind with no support staff to handle things was just too much. If I got a secretary, Id totally go back.

Until you've done it, you just don't understand.

Amen Amen Amen -former teacher

I love teachers, but this is just so dramatic. I understand that talking in such extremes might be effective with your students, but it's less successful when you're talking to fellow adults who also have to pay mortgages and show up every single day to their jobs, etc. etc.

I'm not diminishing your work, I just think y'all need to rework your talking points because these make you look really out of touch with the rest of the workforce. A lot of what you list is comparable to other jobs, especially being held accountable when others drop the ball. It's one of the consequences of leadership.

Former teacher now biglaw attorney. Yeah you are so, so wrong about all of this. I agree with the original PP.

Agree 100% with biglaw attorney. Former GS-15 Senior Advisor who now substitutes a few days a week, and this post really isn't that dramatic. Until you have done it, you can't grasp how exhausting it is to constantly redirect disruptive children while trying to educate a large group of children at varying levels of comprehension. I used to read things like this and had a similar reaction to the first PP. Not any more. I've run high level interagency meetings at the NSC that were much less stressful than herding a group of first graders. Even the most kniving DOJ attorneys who would sneakily try to pull one over on our agency or the bossiest two star generals were like pussy cats compared to a 7 year old with severe behavioral issues who's parents have never taught them to respect authority. People really don't grasp how much things have changed in the classroom and underestimate the stress levels associated with teaching. And I say this as someone who loves little people and finds them endlessly fascinating. But there are limited tools you can use to deal with the myriad of challenges in today's classrooms - your hands are tied in ways that they aren't in office settings. Imagine someone turning over every chair while you are conducting a meeting and then kicking the walls loudly during circle time. That person would be fired - kids don't get fired. Hats off to full time teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine you had to run a meeting 6-7 hours a day. You had to lead the meeting--agenda, content, presentations, discussions, work output, materials, everything. During that meeting, you can't check email or make a phone call. And in between the 6-7 hour meeting, you have smaller 20-1 hour meetings.

Imagine 25 of the 30 participants do not want to be there and don't have the ability to pay attention or follow directions. And you have to keep them on track.

Imagine you had to give immediate feedback/evaluations from today's meeting to every participant.

Imagine after running that meeting, you have to plan and prepare for tomorrow's 6-7 hour meeting.

Imagine if your participants fail to perform or have substandard work product, you are blamed.

Imagine never having an off day. Never spending a day just dealing with the little things.

Imagine it keeps going, day after day. It's exhausting to have to plan and manage every minute of every day for 30-150 participants.

I used to be a teacher. I miss it every day. But I'd never go back. The daily grind with no support staff to handle things was just too much. If I got a secretary, Id totally go back.

Until you've done it, you just don't understand.

Amen Amen Amen -former teacher

I love teachers, but this is just so dramatic. I understand that talking in such extremes might be effective with your students, but it's less successful when you're talking to fellow adults who also have to pay mortgages and show up every single day to their jobs, etc. etc.

I'm not diminishing your work, I just think y'all need to rework your talking points because these make you look really out of touch with the rest of the workforce. A lot of what you list is comparable to other jobs, especially being held accountable when others drop the ball. It's one of the consequences of leadership.

Former teacher now biglaw attorney. Yeah you are so, so wrong about all of this. I agree with the original PP.

+1. My school has a brand new teacher who was a corporate trainer and figured her skills would transfer to elementary school. I think she wanted to be on the same break schedule as her own kids. It is a disaster. She can't get over all of the things listed above. She's getting a lot of support, but gets so far behind because she's used to having so much time to plan and practice her trainings. I guess she didn't realize she'd be expected to give multiple new "trainings" per day as a teacher with incredibly limited time to plan and prepare them? She also can't handle the kids who aren't listening with rapt attention at all times. She thinks they just should listen to what she's saying and be interested in it because she spent time planning it. Again, it's one thing to think you understand what it will be like while you're in school or even during your student teaching, but to take off that life vest and get thrown into the fire is a totally different experience. It's pretty much sink or swim, and it takes a long time to learn how to swim.