Anonymous wrote:2. There are some teams where you don't have "to hope" that they develop into highly ranked teams because they already are. The coaches and the club have a track record of producing highly ranked teams that will get invited to showcases. Just look at the U14 elite teams in the EDP NL. Pipeline and Rush have clubs and coaches with track records of producing highly-ranked teams. You are correct that these teams will not play in the DA or ECNL showcases but when you beat ECNL teams to win the top brackets of Bethesda, Jefferson or Delco, you will get exposure.

1. Again, this gets to the point that you don't have give in the travel soccer by age 10 or the ECNL/DA industrial complex. All I am arguing is that if a kid is u12 or earlier, consider finding a really good soccer coach who coaches a competitive classic/select team and develop there for a year or so before going to travel if the option is the a C team or lower. If the option is an A or B team then go worth the A or B team as long as that team has strong coaches and is competitive.

Anonymous wrote:The top teams are not just in ECNL and DA. If that is your experience, then you live in a bubble. If you live in Baltimore, you are not traveling to Bowie or Bethesda for ECNL practices. You are likely staying in Baltimore which is why you have so many competitive teams in that area. ECNL and DA are great platforms but you haven't seen many games if you believe that the only talent is in DA and ECNL.

Anonymous wrote:You must be clueless. The top teams in the DMV that are not in ECNL or DA will get invited to the top showcases and get placed with the top ECNL teams or ahead of them in more competitive brackets.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very helpful. The only point I would make is that some of the teams playing in EDP's National League compete in the top brackets of the most competitive tournaments where they often beat ECNL teams. Those teams and state cup champions should be considered Tier I.

No, you can't make it a tier 1 simply because a couple of high achieving teams can beat tier 1 teams. It is to random to determine what team will be the years Unicorn out of the group.

A tier 1 league/environment is more indicative of the common opportunities provided to most if not all participants in regards to things like showcasing opportunities and so forth. If a kid is playing in DA or ECNL there is a significantly higher level of showcasing opportunities that is not the same across a EDP Division. Those showcasing opportunities are attached more to the particular team in EDP and its success rather than to the league or division as a whole.

With EDP now in charge of what used to be the Region 1 league, and with that league now playing a full schedule as opposed to a bunch of supplemental games, we might need to think about this.

In other words, the entire division might be unicorns.

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree. All three leagues will have strong teams at the top and the ECNL and EDP teams will get invited to the top brackets in the most competitive tournaments where they play each other.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very helpful. The only point I would make is that some of the teams playing in EDP's National League compete in the top brackets of the most competitive tournaments where they often beat ECNL teams. Those teams and state cup champions should be considered Tier I.

No, you can't make it a tier 1 simply because a couple of high achieving teams can beat tier 1 teams. It is to random to determine what team will be the years Unicorn out of the group.

A tier 1 league/environment is more indicative of the common opportunities provided to most if not all participants in regards to things like showcasing opportunities and so forth. If a kid is playing in DA or ECNL there is a significantly higher level of showcasing opportunities that is not the same across a EDP Division. Those showcasing opportunities are attached more to the particular team in EDP and its success rather than to the league or division as a whole.

With EDP now in charge of what used to be the Region 1 league, and with that league now playing a full schedule as opposed to a bunch of supplemental games, we might need to think about this.

In other words, the entire division might be unicorns.

Anonymous wrote:Very helpful. The only point I would make is that some of the teams playing in EDP's National League compete in the top brackets of the most competitive tournaments where they often beat ECNL teams. Those teams and state cup champions should be considered Tier I.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure how this became a DA discussion. Sure, it's going to be extremely rare that a player moves from U10 rec to U12 DA. I don't think that was ever the point.

To answer the Travel A/B/C/D question -- in most clubs, the A team is either in the DA, the ECNL, EDP, CCL or VPL. A handful still have their A teams in NCSL and a couple are in ODSL -- a couple of *those* teams are actually quite good.

So we should remember, of course, that some clubs B teams will be better than other clubs' A teams.

But most clubs' C/D (and E/F in some cases) teams will be in NCSL and ODSL, usually not in the top NCSL division.

Maybe we should be talking, then, about league tiers rather than club tiers. A rough look at that ...

Tier 1: DA, girls' ECNL

Tier 2: Top EDP division, top third of CCL, other teams in the top 25 at Youth Soccer Rankings (which would likely include a couple of teams from VPL, maybe 1-2 from NCSL, maybe lower-tier EDP and middle of CCL).

Tier 3: Boys' ECNL, middle of CCL, top half of VPL, EDP Div 2-3, NCSL Div 1, other teams in top 50 at Youth Soccer Rankings (the occasional ODSL team will make that).

Tier 4: The rest of CCL, all of CCL2, the rest of VPL, the rest of EDP, NCSL Div 2-5, more ODSL teams.

Tier 5: The rest of NCSL and ODSL.

I'm sure there are Classic/Select teams that could beat the Tier 5 teams and certainly some Tier 4 teams as well.

And I'd think the very best U11 rec players (maybe 1-2 percent) could make a Tier 3 team, the next group (maybe 10-15 percent) could make Tier 4, and an above-average rec player would make Tier 5 if not Tier 4.

Then after a year or two of travel, some of those players could move up a tier. Maybe even two if they're starting in Tier 4 or 5.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure how this became a DA discussion. Sure, it's going to be extremely rare that a player moves from U10 rec to U12 DA. I don't think that was ever the point.

To answer the Travel A/B/C/D question -- in most clubs, the A team is either in the DA, the ECNL, EDP, CCL or VPL. A handful still have their A teams in NCSL and a couple are in ODSL -- a couple of *those* teams are actually quite good.

So we should remember, of course, that some clubs B teams will be better than other clubs' A teams.

But most clubs' C/D (and E/F in some cases) teams will be in NCSL and ODSL, usually not in the top NCSL division.

Maybe we should be talking, then, about league tiers rather than club tiers. A rough look at that ...

Tier 1: DA, girls' ECNL

Tier 2: Top EDP division, top third of CCL, other teams in the top 25 at Youth Soccer Rankings (which would likely include a couple of teams from VPL, maybe 1-2 from NCSL, maybe lower-tier EDP and middle of CCL).

Tier 3: Boys' ECNL, middle of CCL, top half of VPL, EDP Div 2-3, NCSL Div 1, other teams in top 50 at Youth Soccer Rankings (the occasional ODSL team will make that).

Tier 4: The rest of CCL, all of CCL2, the rest of VPL, the rest of EDP, NCSL Div 2-5, more ODSL teams.

Tier 5: The rest of NCSL and ODSL.

I'm sure there are Classic/Select teams that could beat the Tier 5 teams and certainly some Tier 4 teams as well.

And I'd think the very best U11 rec players (maybe 1-2 percent) could make a Tier 3 team, the next group (maybe 10-15 percent) could make Tier 4, and an above-average rec player would make Tier 5 if not Tier 4.

Then after a year or two of travel, some of those players could move up a tier. Maybe even two if they're starting in Tier 4 or 5.

NP here. This is a good analysis. My DD is one of the rare kids that started travel soccer at the C team/ODSL level (Tier 5) for U9/U10 and eventually played at the ECNL (Tier 1) level. She was also senior year Captain and "all-league" for her strong high school team.

The progression was gradual and involved a lot of individual training. At U11 she moved from ODSL up to the Tier 4 level. Then at U14 made at Tier 2 level team at another club, and at U17 she played at the ECNL level. So while she did not make it to Tier 1 from "rec" soccer, she did make the progression from Tier 5 to Tier 1.