Anonymous wrote:Great thoughts. The truth is that the GSUSA experience is entirely different that the BSA experience, so much that the organizations never should or could merge. GSUSA is arguing in its law suit that the 65,000 families whose girls are now wearing blue Cub Scouts BSA uniforms are somehow confused and think they have joined the Girl Scouts. Or, that these same helpless people now think the Girl Scouts no longer exist despite the whole cookie activity. The idea that families who join "Scouts BSA" think they have joined Girl Scouts is an idea a litigator dreamed up to cash in.

Yep, that me. A dumb girl. I’m confused about which organization I signed my daughter up for........

Great thoughts. The truth is that the GSUSA experience is entirely different that the BSA experience, so much that the organizations never should or could merge. GSUSA is arguing in its law suit that the 65,000 families whose girls are now wearing blue Cub Scouts BSA uniforms are somehow confused and think they have joined the Girl Scouts. Or, that these same helpless people now think the Girl Scouts no longer exist despite the whole cookie activity. The idea that families who join "Scouts BSA" think they have joined Girl Scouts is an idea a litigator dreamed up to cash in.

Also funny sidenote. I read your post out loud to my week old baby girl who is sitting here with me

^ wonderful informative post

I came into this thread ready to sound like a cranky old man talking about how boy scouts should be for boys but now I understand that girls can have the opportunity to join a better organization

There are a lot of interesting but insufficiently informed posts on this string, mainly due to posters being unfamiliar with the Boy Scouts of America and its program and operational techniques. I am thoroughly familiar with both of them, so I will share a few items rather directly that some on this string will probably not agree with, but facts are facts. I will speak to the Junior-Senior high school programming currently called Boy Scouts that will become Scouts BSA in February. I remind everyone that the new program will not be co-ed. Boys will be only with boys and lead boys, and girls will be only with girls and lead girls

Girl Scouts has a horrible organizational model that limits access to its troops, which compared to Boy Scout Troops are small and temporarily-existing entities overseen by volunteer bureaucrats who add little value to the experience of the girls. Boy Scout Troops, when successful, are large entities that are fueled with about 15 adult leaders. A lot of these leaders are women – been that way for 15 years. The Boy Scout Troops range from 30 on the small side to many in the area that are from 80-100. They are subdivided into Patrols, and the entire thing is run by the boys with close advising by the Scoutmaster Staff of the unit. The BSA is taking the identical organizational approach with the Scouts BSA troops for Girls that will form in the spring. Scouts BSA Troops last indefinitely and include all ranges of ages from 11 to 18. They are large, sophisticated entities and girls are definitely up to running something big and sophisticated. Scouts BSA Troops (which will be the inclusive program name for both the all-girl and all-boy Troops) run by management techniques that minimize and eliminate wasted time, meetings and bureaucracy.

Advancement in Scouts BSA is rigorous and cumulative over many years. When a Scouts BSA member earns Eagle Scout, anyone in the community knows what they have learned – a comprehensive curriculum of outdoor, rescue, physical fitness, psychological toughness, citizenship and decision-making skills. When someone is an Eagle Scout, he – and soon she – is respected because they have passed a difficult and known series of tests. No exceptions are made. When someone is a Gold Girl Scout, that person is respected but there is no particular understanding of what was done to obtain the award. Eagles have lifelong preferences and career advancement through a strong and professionally-maintained network. Girls deserve to be part of that.

The outdoor and sophisticated technical curricula of Scouts BSA is advanced and implemented thoroughly by thousands of volunteers across the metropolitan area. It has been that way for decades. It remains to be seen whether the various and evolving program trends that are adopted and dropped by GSUSA will ever make a sustained impact on society the way Scouts BSA training does. Printing guide books and announcing a set of colorful badges to mimic the BSA curriculum does not, in itself, accomplish much.

The lawsuit by the GSUSA is a laugh. There is no “confusion” about what organization these families are joining. They are knowingly and purposefully joining the organization that families have justifiably relied on to significantly advance the prospects of generations of boys – and now girls. They know exactly what they are joining and why. It is nothing other than money-grubbing attempt by the GSUSA bureaucracy. If this is the best response the GSUSA has to offer (instead of cleaning up their own dysfunctional financial and management process), the movement will become a small specialty organization.

Finally, the cookie sales program and sale of historic GSUSA camps is the manner by which the GSUSA is addressing the systematic underfunding of the pensions of their employees. As a result, the percentage of profit kept by these GSUSA troops is a pittance compared to the normal profits of other youth organizations. Parents of girls despise the forced months of cookie sales and are leaving to get away from it.

Parents wanting a robust experience for their girls and volunteers wanting to rationally use their time and resources are avoid or leaving the GSUSA for good reasons.

Anonymous wrote:That was an article I read: "The Girl Scouts are suing the Boy Scouts, saying the organization’s inclusive rebranding effort has caused all sorts of consumer confusion from mistaken enrollment in the Boy Scouts to misinformation about a merge of the two groups."

You can make everyone happy. Boys scouts should sue them for causing stress.

I know if I was trying to sell a crap ton of cookies and GSA are using money for this nonsense, I'd be ticked.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are your girls honestly and truly taking away anything from GS other than that it’s basically an elementary-level sorority? I don’t think my Brownie cares what patches or badges she earns, she just likes going twice a week to be with her friends, and taking the occasional field trip. She is super excited about camping this year though.

The absolute only benefit and difference between the GS and BS that I can tell is becoming an Eagle Scout, and the long term benefits of becoming one. Most GS and BS don’t stick with it that long anyway, so comparing the two at elementary level is pointless. It’s a bunch of kids getting together to essentially socialize, and that’s just fine and a healthy part of development in and of itself. I do wish their were equal incentives for GS to stick with it in middle and high school though. That’s the only benefit of BS that I can think of, of course, if your girl sticks it out for the long haul.

My daughter loves GS but for the reason that you mentioned above, she enjoys hanging out and playing with her friends. I don't think she has really gotten much out of it. From what I have seen Boy Scouts, even at the elementary age seem to be much more active than Girl Scouts. I think this is because Boy Scouts encourages more active family participation. It is common for both moms and dads to be actively involved in boy scout troops. Girl Scouts seems to be more discouraging of men participating. There have been a few times where my DH has taken/picked up my daughter from girl scout events (not troop level but council wide) where the woman in charge was very discouraging of him being around. When he picked up DD from Brownie Encampment, [u]he wasn't even allowed to go near the cabins[/u]!

My experience is that no adults are allowed to go near the cabins. They encourage the girls to be more independent. That they are expected them to move their gear to and from the cabin to the collection sites. It had nothing to do with him being discouraged - it is about giving our daughters the space to grow.

Yes. NP here. That is how it was at pick-up from sleepaway camp this summer at Camp Potomac Woods. No parents were allowed near the cabin areas. I think it was for both independence reasons for the girls, and for sheer logistics (keeping cars moving as quickly as possible in and out of the parking lot).

(and not to do with whether it was a dad or a mom)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are your girls honestly and truly taking away anything from GS other than that it’s basically an elementary-level sorority? I don’t think my Brownie cares what patches or badges she earns, she just likes going twice a week to be with her friends, and taking the occasional field trip. She is super excited about camping this year though.

The absolute only benefit and difference between the GS and BS that I can tell is becoming an Eagle Scout, and the long term benefits of becoming one. Most GS and BS don’t stick with it that long anyway, so comparing the two at elementary level is pointless. It’s a bunch of kids getting together to essentially socialize, and that’s just fine and a healthy part of development in and of itself. I do wish their were equal incentives for GS to stick with it in middle and high school though. That’s the only benefit of BS that I can think of, of course, if your girl sticks it out for the long haul.

My daughter loves GS but for the reason that you mentioned above, she enjoys hanging out and playing with her friends. I don't think she has really gotten much out of it. From what I have seen Boy Scouts, even at the elementary age seem to be much more active than Girl Scouts. I think this is because Boy Scouts encourages more active family participation. It is common for both moms and dads to be actively involved in boy scout troops. Girl Scouts seems to be more discouraging of men participating. There have been a few times where my DH has taken/picked up my daughter from girl scout events (not troop level but council wide) where the woman in charge was very discouraging of him being around. When he picked up DD from Brownie Encampment, [u]he wasn't even allowed to go near the cabins[/u]!

My experience is that no adults are allowed to go near the cabins. They encourage the girls to be more independent. That they are expected them to move their gear to and from the cabin to the collection sites. It had nothing to do with him being discouraged - it is about giving our daughters the space to grow.

Yes. NP here. That is how it was at pick-up from sleepaway camp this summer at Camp Potomac Woods. No parents were allowed near the cabin areas. I think it was for both independence reasons for the girls, and for sheer logistics (keeping cars moving as quickly as possible in and out of the parking lot).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are your girls honestly and truly taking away anything from GS other than that it’s basically an elementary-level sorority? I don’t think my Brownie cares what patches or badges she earns, she just likes going twice a week to be with her friends, and taking the occasional field trip. She is super excited about camping this year though.

The absolute only benefit and difference between the GS and BS that I can tell is becoming an Eagle Scout, and the long term benefits of becoming one. Most GS and BS don’t stick with it that long anyway, so comparing the two at elementary level is pointless. It’s a bunch of kids getting together to essentially socialize, and that’s just fine and a healthy part of development in and of itself. I do wish their were equal incentives for GS to stick with it in middle and high school though. That’s the only benefit of BS that I can think of, of course, if your girl sticks it out for the long haul.

My daughter loves GS but for the reason that you mentioned above, she enjoys hanging out and playing with her friends. I don't think she has really gotten much out of it. From what I have seen Boy Scouts, even at the elementary age seem to be much more active than Girl Scouts. I think this is because Boy Scouts encourages more active family participation. It is common for both moms and dads to be actively involved in boy scout troops. Girl Scouts seems to be more discouraging of men participating. There have been a few times where my DH has taken/picked up my daughter from girl scout events (not troop level but council wide) where the woman in charge was very discouraging of him being around. When he picked up DD from Brownie Encampment, [u]he wasn't even allowed to go near the cabins[/u]!

My experience is that no adults are allowed to go near the cabins. They encourage the girls to be more independent. That they are expected them to move their gear to and from the cabin to the collection sites. It had nothing to do with him being discouraged - it is about giving our daughters the space to grow.

Anonymous wrote:I would feel so sorry for this birthday child, because I would worry that no one was going to go to this party that his silly parents planned, and I would worry his or her feelings would be really hurt, unnecessarily!

Oops! Wrong discussion! Meant to be on the thread about a 4yo bday party in Dec. outside at a park!

I would feel so sorry for this birthday child, because I would worry that no one was going to go to this party that his silly parents planned, and I would worry his or her feelings would be really hurt, unnecessarily!

Anonymous wrote: The problem the Girl Scouts are seeing is that girls want to move over to the Boy Scouts. Suing because of the name it’s not going to make a difference. The Girl Scouts needs to change their image. Right now they are seen as cookie sellers, cookie pushers, Girl Scouts is synonymous with Girl Scout cookies ( and every single connotation that being in the kitchen with cookies evokes).

Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are known for doing stuff, being outside, camping, wilderness, woodworking,, and the very prestigious Eagle Scout award.

The Girl Scouts shouldn't be suing the Boy Scouts but rather revamping the system to change perception for what the program is .

Quoting myself to clear that up.

Anonymous wrote:What I'm hearing out of this discussion is this:

1) Girl Scouts can and DO do cool things, say those who are in the knkow.
2) People who are NOT involved or not HEAVILY involved with Girls Scouts are not aware of this and mostly think of cookies when it comes to Girl Scouts.
3) Conclusion: Girl Scouts *have* moved and changed with the times, but needs to work on their PUBLIC BRANDING and IMAGE, because the message is not reaching those who are not involved.

SOME do. You have to search high and low. None near me that I know of.

What I'm hearing out of this discussion is this:

1) Girl Scouts can and DO do cool things, say those who are in the knkow.
2) People who are NOT involved or not HEAVILY involved with Girls Scouts are not aware of this and mostly think of cookies when it comes to Girl Scouts.
3) Conclusion: Girl Scouts *have* moved and changed with the times, but needs to work on their PUBLIC BRANDING and IMAGE, because the message is not reaching those who are not involved.

These are also other upcoming Council activities for this year:

http://www.gscnc.org/en/event/council_activities.html