Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 08:34     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Does it work for these moms trying to force friendships for their kids? Even when I get my kids to play with my friends and relatives kids, it doesn’t always work.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 07:18     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
I see that happen alot. Some moms make special effort to doing that. Hang around and chat with everyone. Initiate immediately if they find out who the kid is or that their kid is the similar age. I don't get into that. However, my DH!! He feels left out when he sees everyone grouped together and our kids is left out-that also means we are left out. Also because I refuse to be sucked into that. If our son wants to play with them, then I might make an effort to engage myself. But it's not my world-the majority seem too group for me.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2018 12:12     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school.

PP quoted and I wrote from the heart both as a parent and my direct experience with elementary, middle and high schoolers. Your assumptions about me are inaccurate and your conclusions naive.



Okay, then, tell me precisely what was inaccurate about what I wrote, like I did for you. I suspect you can't because you carry around a movie-model of middle school that doesn't mirror real life, and I suspect your "direct experience" with tweens and teens is that your own children occasionally had friends over. You do not write like someone who professionally works with teens day in and day out. But I will give you a chance. What, exactly, was incorrect about what I wrote? The fact you didn't bother with the substance of my post -- I suspect because you can't -- tells me that you don't like the fact that people with real boots on the ground in middle schools would roll their eyes at your 80s movie description of the middle school world.

In my view, the ones who are naive are the DCUM parents who think that because their child isn't "popular" the child isn't capable of destructive behaviors. You think your unpopular child isn't bullying, isn't experimenting with sexual behaviors? That's only a "popular" kid thing? You are just blind.

-------------------------------------------------------
and I suspect your "direct experience" with tweens and teens is that your own children occasionally had friends over.

You are incorrect. My tweens and teens more than occasionally had and have friends over. Hadn't even considered that as part of my experience, so let's add that, too. And, to be honest our children's friends often need to pack a bag. We've had several spend vacations home and away with us. I've done before and after school care for friends in need for entire school years. I've taught. I've tutored. I've substituted. It may surprise you to know that I'm working in a middle school this year, part time. I think I have a pretty good, current perspective. I was simply trying to convey per OP that mothers (and it's always mothers) who attempt to micromanage or socially engineer a child's "popularity" are heading down a dangerous road. Be careful what you wish for in the truest sense of the phrase.

Yes, I know and am acutely aware that even the "quirky" (and I detest that word) kids get into trouble, popularity is fleeting and being popular can be, doesn't always mean something negative, but that parents need to understand. It's not as simple as it once was. It's okay not be be popular if the peer group deemed such is into things that would alarm you. That's all.

Parents are in denial, too. Thanks for the reminder that just because your kid is painfully shy or academically focused or has never had a behavior problem, that you can be assured that he/she can do no wrong. Parents need to make the effort to supervise, discipline, set boundaries and expectations and for heavens sake, just talk to your children even as and especially when they are preteens. I absolutely love working with middle schoolers and my colleagues do, too. You have to be an amazingly patient and understanding and reasonable person to willingly serve this population. There's a reason 6/7/8 graders get separated into their own schools until they mature enough for high school.

You do not write like someone who professionally works with teens day in and day out.

Why, thank you! I suppose teenagers erode writing skills? They are tiring, no doubt. I like being the adult in the room.

Should I instead write like the teenagers I know then okay I guess I can LOL but anyway if you don't believe me congradulations I just wanted to tell you what's going on with me like everyday I am just so tired because I have to like get up at like 5 and I have to like get out of my car and like run through the car line but most of the parents don't know I work there? and I so I have to like wave my arms at them so they let me go by? I know right? I'm not waving to say hi I'm waving so I don't get run over by a crazy mom driving.

Anonymous
Post 09/02/2018 10:38     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Go to the park and play with whoever is available at that moment in time. Let's kids learn and workout their social hierarchy for themselves. Different children mature at different rates and have different skills.

Play dates isolate and ostracize. Do you want your kids isolated from less popular kids?

Bill Gates says be nice to the nerds because someday you'll be working for them.

And of course no one wants their child to be ostracized. What so many people fail to understand is that popularity is fleeting. Childhood popularity is dependent on cuteness, physical agility, intelligence, and wit. Perhaps those are important popularity traits in adulthood as well..

Isolating your child in play date circles with exclusively popular kids is a terrible mistake. Popular/elite children seldom remain as such throughout their lives. They only hold that status as children because they have more mature skills than the less popular kids at that moment in time.

What was awesome at seven means nothing at seventeen, and what was cool at seventeen means less than nothing at twenty-seven. Ultimately, most of us turn out to be pretty average in the end.

Send your kids to common play areas and let them workout the popularity quotients for that particular moment in time themselves.

There's no point in being part of a popular elitist play group as a child because it's not going to last even into high school never mind adulthood. Children who are isolated into elite play groups because they are better or more popular just end up being isolated themselves and spend the rest of their lives trying to figure out - WHY!
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2018 10:26     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school.

PP quoted and I wrote from the heart both as a parent and my direct experience with elementary, middle and high schoolers. Your assumptions about me are inaccurate and your conclusions naive.



Okay, then, tell me precisely what was inaccurate about what I wrote, like I did for you. I suspect you can't because you carry around a movie-model of middle school that doesn't mirror real life, and I suspect your "direct experience" with tweens and teens is that your own children occasionally had friends over. You do not write like someone who professionally works with teens day in and day out. But I will give you a chance. What, exactly, was incorrect about what I wrote? The fact you didn't bother with the substance of my post -- I suspect because you can't -- tells me that you don't like the fact that people with real boots on the ground in middle schools would roll their eyes at your 80s movie description of the middle school world.

In my view, the ones who are naive are the DCUM parents who think that because their child isn't "popular" the child isn't capable of destructive behaviors. You think your unpopular child isn't bullying, isn't experimenting with sexual behaviors? That's only a "popular" kid thing? You are just blind.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2018 09:49     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school.

PP quoted and I wrote from the heart both as a parent and my direct experience with elementary, middle and high schoolers. Your assumptions about me are inaccurate and your conclusions naive.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 16:07     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where are you posting from op? TX, FL, or CA?


Very affluent area in IL


Wannabe northshore town that doesn’t actually touch the lake or Highland Park? If this is HP, I would move. You’re going to see a lot more of this.


Hate this area. Counting down the days til I’m outta here!


I knew it! Try Evanston!


This is just a temp living situation. Off to a different coast soon. How do people survive this attitude here? As a gross generalization, the women are petty and shallow and the men are kind of swarthy.


HP is gross. I would never be able to do it, although I taught there for 10 years. An entitled and demanding population. Girls in low elementary grades wearing Butter sweatshirts, Spiritual Gangsta tanks, and Iviva pants. Bourgeoisie to the max. Some lovely people but so many shallow strivers. Glad I am outta there.


Wow. I’m so out of it, I have no clue about any of these brands.


Take a look on social media. A lot of the moms here hashtag the designer pieces they are wearing in their posts...for their kids too.


OMG!!! That explains it. I grew up in The OC, and had enough of the competitive fashion thing to last me a lifetime.

I was so relieved when I went to college where Goth, Grunge, and Thrift Store were the leading fashions.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 14:09     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:Agree with the previous post. My son is sweet, kind and a great listener. He is also a mathlete, exels at STEM subjects and is a chess and robotics club. He certainly not a jock but has been swimming for years and really enjoys it. According to some moms and every school movie stereotype he should be a complete nerd and get picked on, but he is not. His easy going, non judgemental personality has helped him make friends across all social groups. I have to admit I’m sort of embarrassed I was worried he’d be teased and tried to set up play dates with more mainstream kids. It totally backfired on me.

I am proud of him for following his own path and interests and choosing is friend based on their positive personality traits, not social standing. I alway here from his teacher that he is quiet, but a leader and is nice to all of his classmates. Just as it should be.


Sounds like you have raised a great kid.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 13:53     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:I rarely attend any mom group activities due to my work schedule, but this week I was able to join a parents meet and great and play group for all of my sons first grade classmates (there are 5 1st grade classes at his school). While all the kids were happily playing, a group of moms went over all of the class list and had been discussing who all the popular kids are in each class. Then they all went on to figure out how they could all get these kids to play with their kids. Is this a total anomaly? This is first grade, not HS. I’m not really involved in my sons social life, since he’s perfectly happy playing with a few friends from K and the kids on the block. None of this behavior would have ever occurred to me. Frankly, I think it’s pretty pathetic and it makes me sad that parents are passing on this mindset so early to their children.



What town is this from?
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 13:48     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Agree with the previous post. My son is sweet, kind and a great listener. He is also a mathlete, exels at STEM subjects and is a chess and robotics club. He certainly not a jock but has been swimming for years and really enjoys it. According to some moms and every school movie stereotype he should be a complete nerd and get picked on, but he is not. His easy going, non judgemental personality has helped him make friends across all social groups. I have to admit I’m sort of embarrassed I was worried he’d be teased and tried to set up play dates with more mainstream kids. It totally backfired on me.

I am proud of him for following his own path and interests and choosing is friend based on their positive personality traits, not social standing. I alway here from his teacher that he is quiet, but a leader and is nice to all of his classmates. Just as it should be.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 13:22     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.


This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school. In general middle school kids experience popularity in multiple different ways. One type is indeed what PP describes above, the "faster" crowd for lack of a better word, but that's not close to all the kids who are considered popular. There are also the kids who successfully transcend groups by virtue of their interests and who become very popular as a result: the athlete who is also in honors classes, the drama kid who also befriends the robotics kids, etc. Usually these kids have admirable social skills and work ethics, and despite the desperate wishes of a lot of DCUM parents, generally go on to do very well. There are also then the kind/funny kids who are popular because they are universally kind to everyone, and can also diffuse situations with humor. These ones get invited to a lot of social events and asked to join various groups. Basically there are a lot of different ways for kids to be popular. Some are problematic, but some are what you'd want to encourage. It's simply not true that popularity is always a negative marker.

Similarly the opposite is true. Lack of popularity doesn't mean a child is a better person. The days of nerds being seen as the nice guys and girls and also just the victims of bullying are long over. Your member of the science club can also be trying to humiliate kids who do not learn as fast, your math nerd daughter is indeed capable of vicious mean girl behavior. Experienced teachers know that the quirky and nerd kids are just as likely to bully and be cruel. It's often the parents of these kids who are the most in denial, though. Sometimeswhen they get called in because their kids are nasty, the flat out response is that Larla couldn't have done anything because Larla is quirky and quiet or Larlo isn't popular.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 12:47     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where are you posting from op? TX, FL, or CA?


Very affluent area in IL


Wannabe northshore town that doesn’t actually touch the lake or Highland Park? If this is HP, I would move. You’re going to see a lot more of this.


Hate this area. Counting down the days til I’m outta here!


I knew it! Try Evanston!


This is just a temp living situation. Off to a different coast soon. How do people survive this attitude here? As a gross generalization, the women are petty and shallow and the men are kind of swarthy.


HP is gross. I would never be able to do it, although I taught there for 10 years. An entitled and demanding population. Girls in low elementary grades wearing Butter sweatshirts, Spiritual Gangsta tanks, and Iviva pants. Bourgeoisie to the max. Some lovely people but so many shallow strivers. Glad I am outta there.


It seems like so many people don't have as much money as it appears and are just putting on airs. In my short time here Ive met multiple families that have had to declare bankruptcy or their homes went into foreclosure. Our neighbors couldn't afford any extracurricular activities at school or summer camp for their kids, but they did make sure they had a country club membership. Seems the priorities are all wrong here.



+1

PP here. Seen this too! We must be in the same community SO messed up here!


Finally someone who gets it. I'm looking forward to the day I'm not surrounded by a bunch of sheep in Lululemon, LV bags and Canada Goose Jackets.


Exactly. PP here. Sheep is right! Everything is a competition overcompensating for what they think they don't have, what they think you do have, or both. Nauseating.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 11:51     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 11:36     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where are you posting from op? TX, FL, or CA?


Very affluent area in IL


Wannabe northshore town that doesn’t actually touch the lake or Highland Park? If this is HP, I would move. You’re going to see a lot more of this.


Hate this area. Counting down the days til I’m outta here!


I knew it! Try Evanston!


This is just a temp living situation. Off to a different coast soon. How do people survive this attitude here? As a gross generalization, the women are petty and shallow and the men are kind of swarthy.


HP is gross. I would never be able to do it, although I taught there for 10 years. An entitled and demanding population. Girls in low elementary grades wearing Butter sweatshirts, Spiritual Gangsta tanks, and Iviva pants. Bourgeoisie to the max. Some lovely people but so many shallow strivers. Glad I am outta there.


Wow. I’m so out of it, I have no clue about any of these brands.


Take a look on social media. A lot of the moms here hashtag the designer pieces they are wearing in their posts...for their kids too.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2018 11:19     Subject: Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where are you posting from op? TX, FL, or CA?


Very affluent area in IL


Wannabe northshore town that doesn’t actually touch the lake or Highland Park? If this is HP, I would move. You’re going to see a lot more of this.


Hate this area. Counting down the days til I’m outta here!


I knew it! Try Evanston!


This is just a temp living situation. Off to a different coast soon. How do people survive this attitude here? As a gross generalization, the women are petty and shallow and the men are kind of swarthy.


HP is gross. I would never be able to do it, although I taught there for 10 years. An entitled and demanding population. Girls in low elementary grades wearing Butter sweatshirts, Spiritual Gangsta tanks, and Iviva pants. Bourgeoisie to the max. Some lovely people but so many shallow strivers. Glad I am outta there.


Wow. I’m so out of it, I have no clue about any of these brands.