Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 09:38     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Catholic church has a problem with sex, that's clear. If the Church wants to be around in a few generations, they need to end their bizarre emphasis on celibacy. It's not healthy. Have married clergy with a normal, healthy, realistic attitude towards sexuality instead of the deviants they have been attracting.


OK. Question for men - how long would you have to go without sex before you'd molest a child?

My answer, like the vast majority of men would be "I would go my whole life, and would set myself on fire before doing that".

Celibacy is not the cause of the abuse here. Child molesting and celibacy are two entirely different things and should not be conflated.

Marriage will not even cure it. Most child molesters are married men who molest their own children.




I don't agree. The unhealthy attitude of the Church towards sexuality attracts priests who have sexual problems. Add to this the power imbalance and vulnerable populations and you have a situation ripe for abuse.

Wherever you have older people (esp men) with power and young kids, you run the risk of abuse. See Penn State. Add the Church's appeal to men who can't face normal sexuality and are inclined to choose the priesthood, it's a recipe for disaster.

Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 09:25     Subject: Re:Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So who here on DCUM still has their child serve as an Altar Boy or Girl?

They should ban those positions. Make them adult-only volunteers if they are truly needed. They could just leave the Eucharist and wine goblet at the front of the church on a side table.


In our parish the Altar Servers are never alone with the priest. The only interaction they have is on the altar in front of the entire church. So, yes my children have been and will continue to be Altar Servers.


I don't know how you can ensure that Altar Servers are never alone with a priest. There are ceremonial gowns and artifacts to organize in back rooms. Robes to hang up and put away. Do the Altar Servers have completely separate dressing quarters? Is there another adult required to be with them in the back rooms?

Also, is this a church-wide official policy? I know the Boy Scouts mandated new policies and abuse training to ensure that no Scout leader would be alone with a scout.


By your language (ceremonial gowns, artifacts, dressing quarters) I assume you are not Catholic or at least not one with any practical knowledge of the church. Our church always has a sacristan present in the “back room” for security reasons alone. Most of the time there is also a lector, 2-3 servers, the priest and possibly a deacon.


If you need this many people for security, or to practice your faith, then I feel like you're doing religion wrong. The ceremony and ritual are for entertainment, not a belief in God.

Entertainment? Really? You are clearly a know nothing.


It is a form of entertainment - it's making religion a performance, not a belief.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 09:20     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:Mitchell Garabedian gave an interview yesterday on MSNBC in which he stated that multiple people have called him from PA since the publication of the report, saying they were abused by priests whose names are not on the list, and they want their names on that list.

So it's probably a lot more than 20% of priests who are pedophiles. And with those numbers, virtually all the others must be accessories to abuse. There is no way to not know.


I just checked this link https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2018/08/14/pa-grand-jury-report-catholic-clergy-sexual-abuse-names-details-catholic-dioceses/948937002/
and found 11 priests who served in my hometown. Five were in parishes my family belonged to while I lived there. Very creepy, though I don't remember any of them --we kept our distance from clergy.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 08:07     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It’s a gay problem. Victims are mostly pubescent boys.

Must remove homosexuals from clergy.


That is not true, most victims are not boys. Victims are chosen by confidence so Boy Scouts are most likely to abuse boys. Alter boys used to be only boys.

Pedophiles do not prefer a gender.



Do you have a credible citation for “pedophiles” do not prefer a gender?!?

These guys are gay, and they like to target boys in early puberty.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18420556

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2015.00344/full

Pedophilia, btw, is highly correlated with left-handedness.



I only looked at the first reference- it doesn’t support your position.

Says crossover more likely when victim is under six years.

Most of the victims here are boys around 10 to 13.

Different kettle of fish, so to speak.

I don’t know why you are so ideologically biased that you cannot see the truth in front of your face.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 07:54     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It’s a gay problem. Victims are mostly pubescent boys.

Must remove homosexuals from clergy.


That is not true, most victims are not boys. Victims are chosen by confidence so Boy Scouts are most likely to abuse boys. Alter boys used to be only boys.

Pedophiles do not prefer a gender.



Do you have a credible citation for “pedophiles” do not prefer a gender?!?

These guys are gay, and they like to target boys in early puberty.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18420556

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2015.00344/full

Pedophilia, btw, is highly correlated with left-handedness.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 07:00     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It’s a gay problem. Victims are mostly pubescent boys.

Must remove homosexuals from clergy.



It's okay to come out of your closet, self-hating troll. And to leave the church and find a loving community.



Leave the church to who, exactly?

I heard a pastor this year, practically in tears, saying during homily that if Christ were here he would be ministering in the streets to transgenders....

Wonder what was going through that guy’s mind- not too hard to guess.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 06:59     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It’s a gay problem. Victims are mostly pubescent boys.

Must remove homosexuals from clergy.


That is not true, most victims are not boys. Victims are chosen by confidence so Boy Scouts are most likely to abuse boys. Alter boys used to be only boys.

Pedophiles do not prefer a gender.



Do you have a credible citation for “pedophiles” do not prefer a gender?!?

These guys are gay, and they like to target boys in early puberty.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 06:42     Subject: Re:Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So who here on DCUM still has their child serve as an Altar Boy or Girl?

They should ban those positions. Make them adult-only volunteers if they are truly needed. They could just leave the Eucharist and wine goblet at the front of the church on a side table.


In our parish the Altar Servers are never alone with the priest. The only interaction they have is on the altar in front of the entire church. So, yes my children have been and will continue to be Altar Servers.


I don't know how you can ensure that Altar Servers are never alone with a priest. There are ceremonial gowns and artifacts to organize in back rooms. Robes to hang up and put away. Do the Altar Servers have completely separate dressing quarters? Is there another adult required to be with them in the back rooms?

Also, is this a church-wide official policy? I know the Boy Scouts mandated new policies and abuse training to ensure that no Scout leader would be alone with a scout.


By your language (ceremonial gowns, artifacts, dressing quarters) I assume you are not Catholic or at least not one with any practical knowledge of the church. Our church always has a sacristan present in the “back room” for security reasons alone. Most of the time there is also a lector, 2-3 servers, the priest and possibly a deacon.



PP, I was raised in the church (Baptized, 1st Communion, Confirmed) and attended Catholic elementary school from 1-8th grade, though never served as an Altar Server. Do not priests wear ceremonial gowns or robes? Do not the altar servers wear robes? Ceremonial gowns = robes in my personal language, so I may not have said it according to your strict rules. The altar servers carry religious items like crosses and banners, and priests sometimes use incense burners, which I jumbled together as artifacts.

I asked about whether another adult was present in the rooms behind the altar area (are these not "dressing rooms" or "back rooms"?), where these items are stored. You answered that a sacristan and several other adults are present in your particular parish, so I am glad that your parish has these safeguards in place to protect children.

Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 06:31     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Mitchell Garabedian gave an interview yesterday on MSNBC in which he stated that multiple people have called him from PA since the publication of the report, saying they were abused by priests whose names are not on the list, and they want their names on that list.

So it's probably a lot more than 20% of priests who are pedophiles. And with those numbers, virtually all the others must be accessories to abuse. There is no way to not know.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 01:09     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am originally from Scranton and know some of the priests. (Not well. Neighboring parishes). My aunt has a work friend who is close with one of the accused priest. She chooses (the friend, not my aunt) he is innocent. They often have dinner parties and he is invited. It makes me so disgusted! How can you welcome him to your home?



The pedophile priest is probably charming and friendly. The friend has been indoctrinated since childhood to respect her priest and would never doubt his authority. She is a good Catholic!

Do you remember the Beauvoir pedophile teacher from a few years ago? Actually, that story is how I found DCUM all those years ago....I googled Beauvoir and a link to postings on DCUM popped up. Pedophile teacher was so charming and popular -- invited to parents' homes, babysat and tutored for students outside of the classroom, and was living with a school family prior to fleeing the country for Central America. He was charming and fooled all of the parents. That is what pedophiles do. They charm and groom the parents to the point that the child "must have misinterpreted" what really happened if they have the courage to tell their parents about the abuse.


There was a former PA seminarian with same M.O. working for DCPS.. It is the theater of their lives. They are permanently on stage grooming and whispering sweet nothings in they ears of their victims or as he called them "His minions".He manipulated them into believing they were doing g-ds work. He spoke openly to colleagues and petty administrators about his lust for boys. Yet no one acted to have him removed. In what universe could this be acceptable banter and behavior in a public school.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 00:38     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Sadly I’m very familiar with this story. Best coverage I’ve seen is this MSNBC news report with several of the abuse survivors from PA and a frank discussion of the criminal conspiracy the church has become. I think links are allowed if they’re on topic and content is described? https://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/pa-grand-jury-reveals-shocking-level-of-abuse-by-catholic-priests-1299554371701
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 00:14     Subject: Re:Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So who here on DCUM still has their child serve as an Altar Boy or Girl?

They should ban those positions. Make them adult-only volunteers if they are truly needed. They could just leave the Eucharist and wine goblet at the front of the church on a side table.


In our parish the Altar Servers are never alone with the priest. The only interaction they have is on the altar in front of the entire church. So, yes my children have been and will continue to be Altar Servers.


I don't know how you can ensure that Altar Servers are never alone with a priest. There are ceremonial gowns and artifacts to organize in back rooms. Robes to hang up and put away. Do the Altar Servers have completely separate dressing quarters? Is there another adult required to be with them in the back rooms?

Also, is this a church-wide official policy? I know the Boy Scouts mandated new policies and abuse training to ensure that no Scout leader would be alone with a scout.


By your language (ceremonial gowns, artifacts, dressing quarters) I assume you are not Catholic or at least not one with any practical knowledge of the church. Our church always has a sacristan present in the “back room” for security reasons alone. Most of the time there is also a lector, 2-3 servers, the priest and possibly a deacon.


If you need this many people for security, or to practice your faith, then I feel like you're doing religion wrong. The ceremony and ritual are for entertainment, not a belief in God.

Entertainment? Really? You are clearly a know nothing.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2018 23:26     Subject: Re:Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there now clear cut rules for priest/altar boy or altar girl interactions? I know that abuse did not solely happen in the back church rooms, but anyone out there have children who currently serve in these positions? What are the rules for being alone with a priest? Are there clear rules for priests not to be alone with minors?


Safety is not going to be improved until the Catholic Church allows women in positions of equal power and transparency. Until then, the men will always find a way to abuse a situation.


You're wrong. The issue isn't that there aren't enough women. Women look the other way, too. The issue is the notion of priesthood altogether. Women can abuse power as well. I'm tired of this drumbeat that somehow abuse, bullying, exploitation of power is something women don't do or women would stop. I've seen far too many women -- women who were in positions to change things -- look the other way when it suited them. I've also seen women abuse power and exploit positions in which they have some sort of spiritual/social caretaking role.



OK. Women sometimes abuse too, albeit at much lower rates than men. Now, back to the topic at hand. The utter deviancy of the Catholic Church.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2018 23:16     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Catholic church has a problem with sex, that's clear. If the Church wants to be around in a few generations, they need to end their bizarre emphasis on celibacy. It's not healthy. Have married clergy with a normal, healthy, realistic attitude towards sexuality instead of the deviants they have been attracting.


OK. Question for men - how long would you have to go without sex before you'd molest a child?

My answer, like the vast majority of men would be "I would go my whole life, and would set myself on fire before doing that".

Celibacy is not the cause of the abuse here. Child molesting and celibacy are two entirely different things and should not be conflated.

Marriage will not even cure it. Most child molesters are married men who molest their own children.


Isn't there a possibility that if celibacy weren't a requirement the priesthood may possibly attract more "normal" men as opposed to primarily being a draw for the sick sexually repressed pervs who obviously are a significant portion of the Catholic clergy?


This this this this this. According to my former Jesuit priest father-in-law who left the priesthood in the 60s in part because, in his words, it was full of perverts.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2018 23:14     Subject: Grand Jury reports 300 accused priests, 1,000+ child victims, 70-year coverup by the Catholic Church
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am originally from Scranton and know some of the priests. (Not well. Neighboring parishes). My aunt has a work friend who is close with one of the accused priest. She chooses (the friend, not my aunt) he is innocent. They often have dinner parties and he is invited. It makes me so disgusted! How can you welcome him to your home?



The pedophile priest is probably charming and friendly. The friend has been indoctrinated since childhood to respect her priest and would never doubt his authority. She is a good Catholic!

Do you remember the Beauvoir pedophile teacher from a few years ago? Actually, that story is how I found DCUM all those years ago....I googled Beauvoir and a link to postings on DCUM popped up. Pedophile teacher was so charming and popular -- invited to parents' homes, babysat and tutored for students outside of the classroom, and was living with a school family prior to fleeing the country for Central America. He was charming and fooled all of the parents. That is what pedophiles do. They charm and groom the parents to the point that the child "must have misinterpreted" what really happened if they have the courage to tell their parents about the abuse.


This phrase needs to die. That's probably why you used it. I was raised Catholic, extreme version. Rosaries chanted on long car drives, mass on weekdays, etc. This phrase has been used on me by my own family members to criticize my decision to not raise my children in this effed up institution. And no I DON'T need the Catholic church to interface with God. PLEASE.