Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:47
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:
Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.
Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.
Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.
Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.
It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...
Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?
I am a teacher and a parent who fully supports your perspective.
My oldest decided not to take the magnet test as she didn't think she'd make the cut, but more importantly, she said she knows her stress level too well! Having said that, I personally am against magnets. But what makes me laugh is the ironic measures the system takes in creating and supporting test in magnets, "special magnets" (Argyle, Loiderman, and Parkland), and now school-based magnets.
Instead of spending money busing kids from one school to the next and instead of trying to accommodate every Snowflake at the non-magnet schools, go back to community-supported schools and RAMP UP the rigor in on level classes. Oh - and let's not forget the "all honors" courses, where a course is labeled as advanced across the board.
If even half of you knew what went on in "regular" classes, you'd lose your minds. We are graduating kids who can barely read and write, and I blame multiple stakeholders for shortsighted visions, fear of lawsuits, and selfish motives.
Another MCPS teacher here. What this teacher is saying is absolutely true. The "dumbing down" of courses in MCPS is mindblowing. I cannot believe MCPS is not yet in the news for graduating large numbers of students who are unqualified, just as DC and Prince Georges are charged with doing.
do you think it’s something that’s particularly bad in MCPS, or is it symptomatic of a national trend?
Though I'm no expert on this, it is my perception that it is particularly bad in MCPS. Over the course of my 20+ year tenure in the county, things have steadily gotten worse in this regard, particularly in recent years as our county has become more diverse. It seems that in an attempt to eliminate the achievement gap, we are instead lowering expectations for everyone. We have eliminated our previous loss of credit policy (whereby students with too many unexcused absences had to retake the course), we have added the 50% minimum grade/due dates vs. deadlines, and ample retakes to our grading policy, we have eliminated final exams, and as a result of the elimination of final exams have changed the grading policy again so that grades are greatly rounded up (example. 79.5% first quarter and 89.5% second quarter round to an A for the semester). These are only a few of the changes that have taken place in recent years that I believe have made the system less challenging for students, and this change in the middle school magnet process, in my mind, is just another such change to add to the list. On level classes are virtually non-existent now and "honors" or "accelerated" classes are no such thing.
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?
Final exams were eliminated in MCPS across grade levels over a year ago. The Board of Education justified it by saying kids weren't doing well enough on the exams (Can you believe it?) and that kids were being tested too much (The real problem is with too much standardized testing, not final exams.) It's a travesty, and I am in no way being sarcastic. Our students will be at a great disadvantage when they go off to college without having had the experience of sitting for 2 hour exams. Some argue that AP exams are a fine substitute, and while they are a good experience, I do not agree that they compensate for a lack of final exams. I would imagine that colleges aren't looking too highly on MCPS due to this change. In my opinion, the lack of exams has really changed the atmosphere in high schools at the end of the semester. After AP exams are over in May, there is absolutely nothing keeping students focused until the end of the year. I would like to see MCPS implement a policy whereby we return to final exams, but students who legitimately earn an A in both quarters of a semester could be exempt from the exam. This would motivate students to do well throughout the semester, but would also require many students to sit for an exam.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:47
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?
I never understand why some people find this so shocking. Since I didn't encounter final exams until college, what I found shocking is the idea of final exams in high school..
Did you feel prepared to take your final exams in college? I had to take finals throughout middle and high school, and felt they were very good preparation for college. (I actually thought college was much easier than high school).
PP you're responding to. Yes, I did. I also didn't have grades in elementary school, yet I felt prepared for letter grades in middle school and high school.
A change in grading system is totally different than not being exposed to fully cumulative exams before having to take them in college.
It's great that you felt prepared, but I really worry a lot of kids will be totally unprepared for the massive task of doing a comprehensive review of a year's worth of material ahead of a final exam. it takes years to hone those study skills and develop the stamina to study for a battery of finals. I think we're doing our kids a real disservice here.
Well my DS did have final exams in MCPS before graduating and let me tell you, he was still not prepared for finals in college. This is a kid who took "rigorous classes" (APs and honors) had a very good GPA and excellent standardized tests scores. Also got merit from lots of selective colleges. My point, is that having final exams in high school does not necessarily prepare kids for the expectations of college performance. Also, I think a lot of these AP classes have been modified to the point that they aren't close to a college level class. That's why many schools are reconsidering allowing kids to "test out" of freshman level classes. They don't feel that the AP classes were equivalent.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:46
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:
A change in grading system is totally different than not being exposed to fully cumulative exams before having to take them in college.
It's great that you felt prepared, but I really worry a lot of kids will be totally unprepared for the massive task of doing a comprehensive review of a year's worth of material ahead of a final exam. it takes years to hone those study skills and develop the stamina to study for a battery of finals. I think we're doing our kids a real disservice here.
PP who didn't have finals in high school. What classes did you take in college where there was an exam at the end of a two-semester class that covered the entire year's worth of material?
A lot of my classmates became doctors and lawyers. I'll ask them if they feel that they were unprepared for the boards and the bar because they didn't have finals in high school.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:44
Subject: How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:
MCPS did not remove the magnet program from TPMS/Eastern to create a program at Clemente. Right now, not only has MCPS removed the Humanities program from Clemente, but in fact, they have cut down the magnet writing class from the curriculum. MLK 6th grade Humanities is not the same program that the current Clemente 6th grade Humanities student are getting. Next year, MLK 6th grade Humanities will not be the same program that 6th grade Humanities students will be getting.
Other problems with MLK - a very inapt administration, no additional programs, complete lack of parental engagement, not a working PTA. Since the students are at a middle school for only three short and crucial years, this is a grave injustice to students who have got in because of their hard work and talent. Not because of the color of their skin.
Correct. Instead, MCPS removed the option for upcounty students to attend the downcounty magnet programs. They had to go to Clemente instead, and start from scratch -- just like you're complaining the Humanities program at MLK will have to do. And in fact the Humanities program at MLK won't have to start from scratch, because a lot of the Humanities teachers from Clemente are moving to MLK. And yes, there will be one less magnet class (going from 4 to 3, the same number as math/sci), but there will also be a new requirement to take a foreign language in sixth grade, which seems to me to be a very important component of any program that calls itself Humanities.
It is not a "grave injustice" to move the Humanities program from one IB middle school in Germantown to another IB middle school in Germantown.
And it's really despicable -- in addition to fact-free -- to keep implying that the kids who were admitted to the magnet programs this year only got in because of the color of their skin. Stop doing that.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:41
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Basically they're going to do some tracking which they swore they'd never do. I have a kid at Eastern and while she enjoys the magnet, she is not thrilled about being out of her home school.
right. they’re going back to something closer to what a lot of us had in school.
Yup - and the light of desegregation grows a little dimmer.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:35
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
I think one thing to keep in mind is 2000 kids were tested for the magnets. That means about 1900 were sent a rejection letter. That letter explained that sometimes a strong student isn't accepted and explained the cohort concept; however, the majority of those students were not rejected because of a cohort, the majority of those students were simply rejected, they have a cohort that is the regular student population. So now you are waiting to hear if your student has been chosen for the pilot program, that's the March letter mentioned, but no one knows where they stand until then.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:34
Subject: How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
NP here. There are many problems with the Humanities program going to MLK. The school does not have the many enrichment opportunities that are available in Clemente as a whole. In years past, there were many students who were accepted to both programs and had to make a tough choice between the two programs. This year it has become easier because MLK is so far behind in so many things. I feel sorry for all the rising 6th grade Humanities students.
Yes, there are still many changes to come to the whole magnet program next year. Selection criteria to both Clemente and MLK will take race into the equation hidden cleverly in "peer group" criteria.
Expect the changes to hit the admissions to magnet HS next year. RMIB has already seen a change in the program cohort. Next year, MCPS will play race card again to to get more students in Global Ecology (PHS) and the Humanities (PHS and Blair) magnets.
Could you just stop with this already?
(Also, you know what school didn't have the many enrichment opportunities that are available at Clemente, when the magnet programs started at Clemente? Clemente. No doubt people on DCUM would have said, "I feel sorry for all the rising 6th grade students who will have to go to Clemente instead of TPMS/Eastern." But now here we are.)
MCPS did not remove the magnet program from TPMS/Eastern to create a program at Clemente. Right now, not only has MCPS removed the Humanities program from Clemente, but in fact, they have cut down the magnet writing class from the curriculum. MLK 6th grade Humanities is not the same program that the current Clemente 6th grade Humanities student are getting. Next year, MLK 6th grade Humanities will not be the same program that 6th grade Humanities students will be getting.
Other problems with MLK - a very inapt administration, no additional programs, complete lack of parental engagement, not a working PTA. Since the students are at a middle school for only three short and crucial years, this is a grave injustice to students who have got in because of their hard work and talent. Not because of the color of their skin.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:33
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?
I never understand why some people find this so shocking. Since I didn't encounter final exams until college, what I found shocking is the idea of final exams in high school..
Did you feel prepared to take your final exams in college? I had to take finals throughout middle and high school, and felt they were very good preparation for college. (I actually thought college was much easier than high school).
PP you're responding to. Yes, I did. I also didn't have grades in elementary school, yet I felt prepared for letter grades in middle school and high school.
A change in grading system is totally different than not being exposed to fully cumulative exams before having to take them in college.
It's great that you felt prepared, but I really worry a lot of kids will be totally unprepared for the massive task of doing a comprehensive review of a year's worth of material ahead of a final exam. it takes years to hone those study skills and develop the stamina to study for a battery of finals. I think we're doing our kids a real disservice here.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:30
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?
I never understand why some people find this so shocking. Since I didn't encounter final exams until college, what I found shocking is the idea of final exams in high school..
Did you feel prepared to take your final exams in college? I had to take finals throughout middle and high school, and felt they were very good preparation for college. (I actually thought college was much easier than high school).
PP you're responding to. Yes, I did. I also didn't have grades in elementary school, yet I felt prepared for letter grades in middle school and high school.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:28
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:And what about those highly able students that are zoned for TPMS and Easten but that didn't get into the magnet?
I haven't heard anything about them. Tell me more?
Why would you think that there weren't any?
I think the previous poster misunderstood the question. There are 25 seats set aside for zoned TPMS students, so I guess the county figures zoned Takoma Park students are taken care of. Perhaps there is no cohort of high scorers among in boundary Eastern students, or the county doesn't care. I've never understood why TP families got set aside seats, but Eastern families didn't. I would think setting aside seats for in-boundary eastern families seats would increase diversity within that magnet program.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:28
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?
I never understand why some people find this so shocking. Since I didn't encounter final exams until college, what I found shocking is the idea of final exams in high school..
Did you feel prepared to take your final exams in college? I had to take finals throughout middle and high school, and felt they were very good preparation for college. (I actually thought college was much easier than high school).
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:26
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?
I never understand why some people find this so shocking. Since I didn't encounter final exams until college, what I found shocking is the idea of final exams in high school..
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:25
Subject: How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:
NP here. There are many problems with the Humanities program going to MLK. The school does not have the many enrichment opportunities that are available in Clemente as a whole. In years past, there were many students who were accepted to both programs and had to make a tough choice between the two programs. This year it has become easier because MLK is so far behind in so many things. I feel sorry for all the rising 6th grade Humanities students.
Yes, there are still many changes to come to the whole magnet program next year. Selection criteria to both Clemente and MLK will take race into the equation hidden cleverly in "peer group" criteria.
Expect the changes to hit the admissions to magnet HS next year. RMIB has already seen a change in the program cohort. Next year, MCPS will play race card again to to get more students in Global Ecology (PHS) and the Humanities (PHS and Blair) magnets.
Could you just stop with this already?
(Also, you know what school didn't have the many enrichment opportunities that are available at Clemente, when the magnet programs started at Clemente? Clemente. No doubt people on DCUM would have said, "I feel sorry for all the rising 6th grade students who will have to go to Clemente instead of TPMS/Eastern." But now here we are.)
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:20
Subject: How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:what will happen with the kids now looking at Clemente? Will they be subjected to all of this in the future?
NP here. There are many problems with the Humanities program going to MLK. The school does not have the many enrichment opportunities that are available in Clemente as a whole. In years past, there were many students who were accepted to both programs and had to make a tough choice between the two programs. This year it has become easier because MLK is so far behind in so many things. I feel sorry for all the rising 6th grade Humanities students.
Yes, there are still many changes to come to the whole magnet program next year. Selection criteria to both Clemente and MLK will take race into the equation hidden cleverly in "peer group" criteria.
Expect the changes to hit the admissions to magnet HS next year. RMIB has already seen a change in the program cohort. Next year, MCPS will play race card again to to get more students in Global Ecology (PHS) and the Humanities (PHS and Blair) magnets.
Anonymous
03/09/2018 08:17
Subject: Re:How is the new pilot offering equivalent to TPMS/Eastern
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher not a parent, and I believe there should be differentiation for gifted kids, but here are my predictions:
Admin and counselors at places like Cabin John and Pyle get DELUGED with calls/emails from parents who think their child should be in the pilot classes. “We wanted to be close to home so we didn’t apply to the magnet, but my child could have gotten in and therefore they should be in that section.” There probably are way more qualified kids at a huge school like Pyle than there are spots in those classes.
Teachers get ticked off that they have five minutes to learn yet another curriculum, knowing that many parents will be displeased with the rollout and they’ll be the ones to bear the brunt of that.
Mega scheduling problems—yet to be determined, sure to happen. Tons of annoyed counselors upset that they too have yet another thing to deal with. Hopefully that master scheduling training will be done well.
Totally irritated principals who have disdain for the “pushy” gifted community who think their children are “special snowflakes”—and who’ve been trying to head off this type of differentiation for years. They now will have to admit defeat on the matter, at least temporarily.
It won’t be enough. No matter what, it won’t be enough. And there will be a lot of unhappy parents whose kids don’t get to take these classes. And so...
Eventually everyone will get to take the magnet-ish classes, and we’ll all be back to where we started. ?
I am a teacher and a parent who fully supports your perspective.
My oldest decided not to take the magnet test as she didn't think she'd make the cut, but more importantly, she said she knows her stress level too well! Having said that, I personally am against magnets. But what makes me laugh is the ironic measures the system takes in creating and supporting test in magnets, "special magnets" (Argyle, Loiderman, and Parkland), and now school-based magnets.
Instead of spending money busing kids from one school to the next and instead of trying to accommodate every Snowflake at the non-magnet schools, go back to community-supported schools and RAMP UP the rigor in on level classes. Oh - and let's not forget the "all honors" courses, where a course is labeled as advanced across the board.
If even half of you knew what went on in "regular" classes, you'd lose your minds. We are graduating kids who can barely read and write, and I blame multiple stakeholders for shortsighted visions, fear of lawsuits, and selfish motives.
Another MCPS teacher here. What this teacher is saying is absolutely true. The "dumbing down" of courses in MCPS is mindblowing. I cannot believe MCPS is not yet in the news for graduating large numbers of students who are unqualified, just as DC and Prince Georges are charged with doing.
do you think it’s something that’s particularly bad in MCPS, or is it symptomatic of a national trend?
Though I'm no expert on this, it is my perception that it is particularly bad in MCPS. Over the course of my 20+ year tenure in the county, things have steadily gotten worse in this regard, particularly in recent years as our county has become more diverse. It seems that in an attempt to eliminate the achievement gap, we are instead lowering expectations for everyone. We have eliminated our previous loss of credit policy (whereby students with too many unexcused absences had to retake the course), we have added the 50% minimum grade/due dates vs. deadlines, and ample retakes to our grading policy, we have eliminated final exams, and as a result of the elimination of final exams have changed the grading policy again so that grades are greatly rounded up (example. 79.5% first quarter and 89.5% second quarter round to an A for the semester). These are only a few of the changes that have taken place in recent years that I believe have made the system less challenging for students, and this change in the middle school magnet process, in my mind, is just another such change to add to the list. On level classes are virtually non-existent now and "honors" or "accelerated" classes are no such thing.
Sorry, I can't get past this -- there are no final exams in MCPS? Is this true of all grades?