Anonymous wrote:

but only a tiny percentage of H-1Bs are in that league. Even among the former foreign students now in the worKorce--the group the industry claims are especially talented--the immigrants on average produce fewer patents per capita, are less likely to work in R&D, and have their U.S. degrees from lower-ranked schools than Americans of the same education, age and so on.

Meanwhile, the H-1B program results in many of our own best and brightest U.S. citizens and permanent residents being squeezed out of the market once they accumulate 10 years or so of experience, and worse, many top college students are discouraged by H-1B and offshoring from pursuing the field in the first place.

In other words, H-1B is causing an internal brain drain of the best and brightest American talents. This has been explicitly recognized by UC Berkeley researchers, and as noted earlier, by a blue ribbon commission in the National Institutes of Health. The latter focused on the PhD level.

I am one of those immigrants and I can attest to the above. This is very accurate. When I came to this country I had to get admission in an Ivy League school with a scholarship. I felt really proud to be part of this country and felt like I earned my place here.

Now I see students coming here with admissions to third-rated universities with irrelevant areas of studies. All these immigrants somehow end up as IT consultants.

What type of "scholarship"? Ivy League schools don't really do "scholarships", just financial aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just get rid of all the ESOL kids in FFX so I can send my kids to the local school I'm paying out of the nose in taxes for?

Sure. But since schools can't ask about citizenship, and many of these kids are citizens, how do you propose we go about doing this?

Oh, wait, that's right-- many of these ESOL kids are citizens or green card holders or otherwise here legally. So no. Your kid is stuck in a school with brown people. Sorry. I'm sure it's traumatic.

Hey, I'm an English speaking brown person looking for a good education for my kids. And I know going to my school MUST be traumatic because allllll of you white Liberal hypocrites move out of my neighborhood or pay for private for your kids because y'all don't want your white kids going with the ESOL kids either. What do you know, Liberals are hypocrites.

And this is the truth which liberals don't want discussed openly. Of course, every parent would like the best schools for their children and when there are kids whose language skills are inadequate - no matter if they are white, black, brown or any other hue - it is a point for concern. So what do white liberals do? They find a school district that has better schools or send their kids to a private school. Now they don't look for schools that have fewer kids taking ESOL but that is the practical effect of their decision to move their kids. But then they pat themselves on the back about just how unbiased they are.

How do I know this? I did it with my children and just about everyone who I know who identify themselves as liberals do the same thing.

Kids learn language fast. When we lived abroad we put our kids in the foreign schools and they did just fine starting out without speaking the language at all beforehand. Other foreigners did too. Exposure to multiple languages and cultures is a positive. No need to flee. The real issue here is ethnicity. Seek help.

I am married to someone who is a minority - and very ethnic. Should I still seek help?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just get rid of all the ESOL kids in FFX so I can send my kids to the local school I'm paying out of the nose in taxes for?

Sure. But since schools can't ask about citizenship, and many of these kids are citizens, how do you propose we go about doing this?

Oh, wait, that's right-- many of these ESOL kids are citizens or green card holders or otherwise here legally. So no. Your kid is stuck in a school with brown people. Sorry. I'm sure it's traumatic.

Hey, I'm an English speaking brown person looking for a good education for my kids. And I know going to my school MUST be traumatic because allllll of you white Liberal hypocrites move out of my neighborhood or pay for private for your kids because y'all don't want your white kids going with the ESOL kids either. What do you know, Liberals are hypocrites.

And this is the truth which liberals don't want discussed openly. Of course, every parent would like the best schools for their children and when there are kids whose language skills are inadequate - no matter if they are white, black, brown or any other hue - it is a point for concern. So what do white liberals do? They find a school district that has better schools or send their kids to a private school. Now they don't look for schools that have fewer kids taking ESOL but that is the practical effect of their decision to move their kids. But then they pat themselves on the back about just how unbiased they are.

How do I know this? I did it with my children and just about everyone who I know who identify themselves as liberals do the same thing.

Kids learn language fast. When we lived abroad we put our kids in the foreign schools and they did just fine starting out without speaking the language at all beforehand. Other foreigners did too. Exposure to multiple languages and cultures is a positive. No need to flee. The real issue here is ethnicity. Seek help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just get rid of all the ESOL kids in FFX so I can send my kids to the local school I'm paying out of the nose in taxes for?

Sure. But since schools can't ask about citizenship, and many of these kids are citizens, how do you propose we go about doing this?

Oh, wait, that's right-- many of these ESOL kids are citizens or green card holders or otherwise here legally. So no. Your kid is stuck in a school with brown people. Sorry. I'm sure it's traumatic.

Hey, I'm an English speaking brown person looking for a good education for my kids. And I know going to my school MUST be traumatic because allllll of you white Liberal hypocrites move out of my neighborhood or pay for private for your kids because y'all don't want your white kids going with the ESOL kids either. What do you know, Liberals are hypocrites.

And this is the truth which liberals don't want discussed openly. Of course, every parent would like the best schools for their children and when there are kids whose language skills are inadequate - no matter if they are white, black, brown or any other hue - it is a point for concern. So what do white liberals do? They find a school district that has better schools or send their kids to a private school. Now they don't look for schools that have fewer kids taking ESOL but that is the practical effect of their decision to move their kids. But then they pat themselves on the back about just how unbiased they are.

How do I know this? I did it with my children and just about everyone who I know who identify themselves as liberals do the same thing.

What do you think the chances are of this little piece of SturmBannonfuhrer legislative excrement getting through the Hill in this climate? LOL.

OK kids. Add up numbers. I see far more BS than PhD on the HB employer list. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Reports%20and%20Studies/Immigration%20Forms%20Data/BAHA/h-1b-2016-employers.pdf

Note many pro illegal immigration cite the DACA number at about 685,000. That is incorrect since the govt now conveniently published numbers. Total initial requests accepted as of the end of fiscal Q 2 for 2017 since program inception is 886,814 with Mexico at 689,029 [77.7%].

Bernie Sanders state has almost none. 56. Imagine. Compare his DACA number to MD and VA which are nowhere near the Mexican border. He might have stray Canadians. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Reports%20and%20Studies/Immigration%20Forms%20Data/All%20Form%20Types/DACA/daca_performancedata_fy2017_qtr2.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just get rid of all the ESOL kids in FFX so I can send my kids to the local school I'm paying out of the nose in taxes for?

Sure. But since schools can't ask about citizenship, and many of these kids are citizens, how do you propose we go about doing this?

Oh, wait, that's right-- many of these ESOL kids are citizens or green card holders or otherwise here legally. So no. Your kid is stuck in a school with brown people. Sorry. I'm sure it's traumatic.

Easy. Allow them to ask for citizenship, green card, or Visa. Done.

Not easily done. Go back and review Plyer v Doe

Anonymous wrote:

but only a tiny percentage of H-1Bs are in that league. Even among the former foreign students now in the worKorce--the group the industry claims are especially talented--the immigrants on average produce fewer patents per capita, are less likely to work in R&D, and have their U.S. degrees from lower-ranked schools than Americans of the same education, age and so on.

Meanwhile, the H-1B program results in many of our own best and brightest U.S. citizens and permanent residents being squeezed out of the market once they accumulate 10 years or so of experience, and worse, many top college students are discouraged by H-1B and offshoring from pursuing the field in the first place.

In other words, H-1B is causing an internal brain drain of the best and brightest American talents. This has been explicitly recognized by UC Berkeley researchers, and as noted earlier, by a blue ribbon commission in the National Institutes of Health. The latter focused on the PhD level.

I am one of those immigrants and I can attest to the above. This is very accurate. When I came to this country I had to get admission in an Ivy League school with a scholarship. I felt really proud to be part of this country and felt like I earned my place here.

Now I see students coming here with admissions to third-rated universities with irrelevant areas of studies. All these immigrants somehow end up as IT consultants.

the Indians I know that immigrated in 90's and early 2000 are against the H1B also, especially as it has exploded out of control in last 10 years. It has NOTHING to do with Best and Brightest. I had one tell me that H1Bs pollute an IT shop. He quit and went back to gov doing SOA work. been here in US 15 years.

but only a tiny percentage of H-1Bs are in that league. Even among the former foreign students now in the worKorce--the group the industry claims are especially talented--the immigrants on average produce fewer patents per capita, are less likely to work in R&D, and have their U.S. degrees from lower-ranked schools than Americans of the same education, age and so on.

Meanwhile, the H-1B program results in many of our own best and brightest U.S. citizens and permanent residents being squeezed out of the market once they accumulate 10 years or so of experience, and worse, many top college students are discouraged by H-1B and offshoring from pursuing the field in the first place.

In other words, H-1B is causing an internal brain drain of the best and brightest American talents. This has been explicitly recognized by UC Berkeley researchers, and as noted earlier, by a blue ribbon commission in the National Institutes of Health. The latter focused on the PhD level.

I am one of those immigrants and I can attest to the above. This is very accurate. When I came to this country I had to get admission in an Ivy League school with a scholarship. I felt really proud to be part of this country and felt like I earned my place here.

Now I see students coming here with admissions to third-rated universities with irrelevant areas of studies. All these immigrants somehow end up as IT consultants.

Thanks for posting. We have a legal mafia/monopoly racket in HB1. Honestly AA's from good schools with good grades have difficulty with proper employment upon graduating due to HB1.

It's a frickin industry.

Correlations from Dr. Matloff - Dr. Matloff was born and raised in Los Angeles, and has a PhD in mathematics from UCLA, specializing in probability and statistics.

Impact of H1Bs on US Tech Workers

The foreign worker programs are causing an internal brain drain from technology fields in the US. The impact is particularly acute on those who are older which in this H-1B era for the tech field, means over age 35. Employers prefer to hire the younger, thus cheaper, H-1Bs instead of the older, thus more expensive, Americans. Microsoft admits that “the vast majority of Microsoft hires are young, but that is because older workers tend to go into more senior jobs and there are fewer of those positions to begin with (Wadhwa, 2008). A Network World article Bednarz (2012) reports that "Asked for experience preference, corporate hiring managers most frequently say IT pros with two to five years in the workforce, followed by those with six to 10 years’ experience."

The nexus of this to the influx of foreign workers, especially the former foreign students, was cited explicitly by a Berkeley research team (Brown et al 1998; emphasis added): high-tech engineers and managers have experienced lower wage growth than their counterparts nationally... Why hasn’t the growth of high-tech wages kept up?... Foreign students are an important part of the story... Approximately one-half of engineering PhDs and one-third of engineering MSs were granted to foreign-born students in the mid-1990. Later related work (Brown and Linden 2009) showed that the lifetime earnings premium from an advanced degree is negative for natives (due to lost income while in graduate school) but positive for the immigrants (due to access to the US labor market), thus providing a disincentive for the natives to pursue graduate work (pp.131-132). As the authors point out, "...most [semiconductor companies] want to hire only MS (or PhD) engineers for design...and of course the companies would prefer that the graduate premiums stay low" (p.121). This preference is then satisfied by hiring large numbers of foreign engineers.

Why are such large proportions of U.S. STEM postgraduate degrees earned by international students? The influx from abroad has hindered salary growth at that level, hence making pursuit of graduate degrees unattractive to US students. This displacement of Americans at the PhD level was actually projected (if not planned for) by the Policy Research and Analysis division of the National Science Foundation: “A growing influx of foreign PhDs into US labour markets will hold down the level of PhD salaries... [The Americans] will select alternative career paths... by choosing to acquire a "professional" degree in business or law, or by switching into management as rapidly as possible after gaining employment in private industry... [as] the effective premium for acquiring a PhD may actually be negative” (Weinstein, 1998)

The PERM data indicate that Microsoft pays its entry-level financial analysts and lawyers much more than it pays its engineers. Young people see these market signals and respond accordingly. Anthony Carnevale of Georgetown University has pointed out, "If you're a high math student in America, from a purely economic point of view, it's crazy to go into STEM" (Light, 2011).

Kerr (2013) aimed to quantify the impact of foreign STEM workers on Americans. They found that “A one SD [standard deviation] increase in abnormally high immigrant hiring [by a firm] at the time of a STEM worker's departure is associated with a 0.16... decline in log annualized wage. This amounts to a 17% drop in original wage.

Though my focus here has been on CS/EE, one should note the 2012 report by the US government National Institutes of Health (NIH, 2012). It was found that those hoping for a research career must undergo years of low-paid post-doctoral work, during which time they have no idea as to whether they will ultimately be able to secure a career in the field. The report found this to be due to a huge surplus of labour, and it specifically cited the large number of foreign workers (about 60% of all post docs) as a major contributor to the problem. The report also stated that a result is the loss of many of the nation's top talents from STEM research--the internal brain drain. The internal brain drain is perhaps the most acute of the negative impacts of current policy, from a national interest point of view.

http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/MigLtrs.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 70 point immigration plan. FFS. Laws about complex issues are complex. I mean-- Trumps haven't been. But in the real government they are. But only Trump would want to make sure he got credit for coming up with 70 points (not 68!!!!!).

Complex laws on a complex issue? What is complex about a neighbor allowing her daughter plus nieces etc to stay in her house for birthright citizenship ? All flew over on tourist visas. I see no complexity in this NOR persons who overstayed tourist or student visas.

How complex is the ACA act funding public health clinics when patients are listed in reports as no insurance, Medicaid, private insurance etc? Then we look at the demographics. It's only complex because people came here and won't leave.

You may think a single example that you don't have all the facts about is simple to solve, and it may be. But a federal immigration policy that covers all the examples in the US, and balances the needs of US citizens, businesses, government entities and 50 different states with different populations, different politics and different needs is, in fact complex. And this is before you factor in lobbyists, the 4 yeR backlog of the immigration courts, and the millions of people already here that would just add to that backlog.

The situation with your neighbor may be easy. Call ICE and let them decide. But the situation in this country is complicated, and any solution will be complicated. And require everyone to compromise.

The fact was my neighbor had several children/teens young adults that were my friends. The sister [married -non citizen ] came over on a tourist visa for each of the 3 births. Then flew back with children. Each time there were more kids on the return trip. Happened with my peers cousins as well. This was decades ago.

Yes that is simple to solve. Only children of 1 or more US citizens get citizenship. And for edification it was the 14th NOT 15th Amendment. The 14th amendment made federal citizenship a priority over state citizenship since after the Civil War AA's were blocked as citizens on the state level. http://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/birthright-citizenship-and-the-constitution

Until now the USA has not had the need to further define a rather vague stretch of our constitution. Language on allegiance was done for Native Americans. Not random others who hop a plane or walk on in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just get rid of all the ESOL kids in FFX so I can send my kids to the local school I'm paying out of the nose in taxes for?

Sure. But since schools can't ask about citizenship, and many of these kids are citizens, how do you propose we go about doing this?

Oh, wait, that's right-- many of these ESOL kids are citizens or green card holders or otherwise here legally. So no. Your kid is stuck in a school with brown people. Sorry. I'm sure it's traumatic.

Easy. Allow them to ask for citizenship, green card, or Visa. Done.

They already have citizenship, a green card or a visa. Can you Read?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hooray! Now THIS is the main issue that got Trump the win - reasonable laws that put American citizens before illegal immigrants, or immigrants in general, when determining who is admitted to our country, other than those seeking assylum (which must be better proven). While the proposal in its entirety might seem far-reaching, it's an excellent starting point for negotiations with the D's who want to protect DACA.

I'm sure the libsters will pick apart the points they disagree with (which will be many) and use this to viciously attack Trump voters once again, but....fellow conservatives....don't you believe much of this is just common sense?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/8/trump-send-70-point-immigration-enforcement-list-c/?ref=hvper.com

"hooray" indeed. You sound quite pleased, almost foaming at the mouth, at using the daca kids as leverage to build a useless, money wasting wall. This administration is inept and will fail at this, but keep writing long winded diatribes if it helps you get out your xenophobic wet dreams.

Anonymous wrote:
You guys know less than nothing about economics. There are more jobs and better economies in places that have immigrant workers than in places that do not; not just more jobs for the immigrants but for everyone. There are no places with sustained economic growth without immigrant labor.


sorry, you seemed to have failed the fundamental lesson of supply and demand. The only people that benefit from large immigration are corporate CEOs. There is no shortage of workers in US. There are bunch of corporations working the political system for their own profits, at the expense of workers.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."

-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum

http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf
[Report Post]

Any chance the unemployment rate was higher 27 years ago than it is today? Or that this country had different economic needs? You aren't going to get very far with 1990 economic testimony from now he guy.

Read something other than bezos diary

The h1b law was pushed into prominence with bush 1990 law. We are about to change it significantly . This guy was testifying how the nsf was making things up

Who is we? Congress is paralyzed on immigration, just like every other issue. Trump's heartless list of talking points will make zero difference.

The world's "best and brightest" should be welcomed!!!

but only a tiny percentage of H-1Bs are in that league. Even among the former foreign students now in the worKorce--the group the industry claims are especially talented--the immigrants on average produce fewer patents per capita, are less likely to work in R&D, and have their U.S. degrees from lower-ranked schools than Americans of the same education, age and so on.

Meanwhile, the H-1B program results in many of our own best and brightest U.S. citizens and permanent residents being squeezed out of the market once they accumulate 10 years or so of experience, and worse, many top college students are discouraged by H-1B and offshoring from pursuing the field in the first place.

In other words, H-1B is causing an internal brain drain of the best and brightest American talents. This has been explicitly recognized by UC Berkeley researchers, and as noted earlier, by a blue ribbon commission in the National Institutes of Health. The latter focused on the PhD level.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just get rid of all the ESOL kids in FFX so I can send my kids to the local school I'm paying out of the nose in taxes for?

Xenophobe.

No, really. Just an Illegal-phobe.

No. Xenophobe is right. Many of the ESOL kids are here legally. And there is absolutely no way to tell the legal ones from the illegal ones.

If you are going to be a bigot, just own it.

Exactly.