Anonymous wrote:I don't care if teachers or kids do it. I personally won't b/c I'm not ready to have that conversation with my kids. However, I'm curious how people can say elem. kids are being indoctrinated if they kneel when we are telling that that standing and saying the pledge every day is the thing to do. How is that not indoctrination? Also, if kids who are older can make up their minds, why are we having kids too young to understand say it by default? I just think people need to think about the arguments they are making.

Exactly.

Anonymous wrote:
This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

Apparently, when it started the player was refusing to stand up for the playing of the anthem, but when that was seen as disrespectful, he changed to the "taking a knee."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.br-7.com/

His quarterback regrets staying in the locker room.

He did not say he regretted it. He expressed his feelings about the day and said he wanted to be unified since the country is divided.

From the link:
"I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently"

That's not regret?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.br-7.com/

His quarterback regrets staying in the locker room.

He did not say he regretted it. He expressed his feelings about the day and said he wanted to be unified since the country is divided.

He said: "As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

We stand because the US govt pays the NFL $13M to play the national anthem before each game.

What a load of bull. I stand for the cub scout flag ceremony too, no money there.

But I'm a veteran, you're obviously not. To some of us, the Flag & Country mean something.

Anonymous wrote:http://www.br-7.com/

His quarterback regrets staying in the locker room.

He did not say he regretted it. He expressed his feelings about the day and said he wanted to be unified since the country is divided.

http://www.br-7.com/

His quarterback regrets staying in the locker room.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who see encouraging or suborning protest during the pledge/anthem as political indoctrination of children: how is it not political indoctrination to encourage/expect children to recite the pledge of allegiance and to stand at attention during the anthem? You are simply encouraging a different form of indoctrination with this "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

We are standing because "WE" are our country, NOT some leader, monarch or individual. We the people. We are standing to honor our ideal: liberty and justice for all.

We are standing to honor those who bled on the battlefield to protect "WE" Americans and our ideals above, and for those whose coffins come back wrapped in our flag.

The red stripes on the flag symbolize blood shed on the battlefield btw.

The flag is not Trump, or Obama, or any president, politician or political party. The flag is we the people and the ideals that we aspire to and fight for.

When they are protesting the flag, it is not a symbol of Trump they are insulting. They are insulting our ideals and those who fought and died for those ideals.

That is what is so insulting about this stupid "protest"

We stand because the US govt pays the NFL $13M to play the national anthem before each game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

I know, right? I see "kneel", I think "genuflect to our dear leader".

The only person in this whole mess who has shown any courage or conviction is the Pittsburgh Steelers Army Ranger who came out on his own and was the lone player on his team on the field for the national anthem. The rest are sheeple and cowards.

He's one of a very few veterans in the NFL. Serving in the military tends to be a good indicator of love of country. The people disrespecting the Flag & Country are able to do so thanks to the sacrifice of a few.

I think the players should be allowed to disrespect the Flag/Country on their time, it's their right, on their own time. But in a league where you can be fined $15,000 for mismatched socks or wearing the wrong brand of shoes they should certainly be fined/fired for doing it in uniform.

...and personally I have the right to burn their jerseys too....

I just bought an Alejandro Villanueva jersey I'll wear with pride. True hero.

Same here.

That's a guy.

Maybe he will donate the proceeds to Puerto Rico the real news that happened this weekend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

I know, right? I see "kneel", I think "genuflect to our dear leader".

The only person in this whole mess who has shown any courage or conviction is the Pittsburgh Steelers Army Ranger who came out on his own and was the lone player on his team on the field for the national anthem. The rest are sheeple and cowards.

He's one of a very few veterans in the NFL. Serving in the military tends to be a good indicator of love of country. The people disrespecting the Flag & Country are able to do so thanks to the sacrifice of a few.

I think the players should be allowed to disrespect the Flag/Country on their time, it's their right, on their own time. But in a league where you can be fined $15,000 for mismatched socks or wearing the wrong brand of shoes they should certainly be fined/fired for doing it in uniform.

...and personally I have the right to burn their jerseys too....

I just bought an Alejandro Villanueva jersey I'll wear with pride. True hero.

#1 selling jersey in the nation today. http://www.nflshop.com/Jerseys/pg/1/ps/84/so/top_sellers

They're is hope.

^^^ There

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

I know, right? I see "kneel", I think "genuflect to our dear leader".

The only person in this whole mess who has shown any courage or conviction is the Pittsburgh Steelers Army Ranger who came out on his own and was the lone player on his team on the field for the national anthem. The rest are sheeple and cowards.

He's one of a very few veterans in the NFL. Serving in the military tends to be a good indicator of love of country. The people disrespecting the Flag & Country are able to do so thanks to the sacrifice of a few.

I think the players should be allowed to disrespect the Flag/Country on their time, it's their right, on their own time. But in a league where you can be fined $15,000 for mismatched socks or wearing the wrong brand of shoes they should certainly be fined/fired for doing it in uniform.

...and personally I have the right to burn their jerseys too....

I just bought an Alejandro Villanueva jersey I'll wear with pride. True hero.

#1 selling jersey in the nation today. http://www.nflshop.com/Jerseys/pg/1/ps/84/so/top_sellers

They're is hope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading this thread with some dismay. I'm surprised at the posters who don't believe there is still racism in America and in the world.

Take Lebron James--he's making more money than most of us will ever make, he's considered a superior athlete and a talented individual admired by many. His house is probably in a "very secure" neighborhood. Yet, even he had someone spraypaint the N-word on his front gate.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/sport/lebron-james-racist-graffiti-incident/index.html

I'm not sure that white Americans can picture what it's like to have words spraypainted on their homes? I'm a white woman--I can't picture coming home to "c*nt" spraypainted on my home? These things do not generally happen to most white Americans, even poor ones, let alone wealthy ones.

I think there are many many other instances of these kinds of insults. Can white Americans picture being afraid of being shot by police officers who might stop you for a speeding ticket? Can white Americans picture being unwelcome because your neighbors are convinced their house will depreciate in value because you B.O.U.G.H.T. a home at market value?

Where did you grow up? Pleasantville? I am not denying racism. I am saying that the lives of people on DCUM are not as idyllic as yours seems to be.

Although I disagree with NFL players kneeling, I am ready to defend their right to do so. However, I don't think elementary school is necessarily the right place to start that conversation, and I certainly do not think elementary school teachers should protest while teaching.

To the posters who are concerned about the "right place," and argue that schools are not the right place for students to kneel (or for that matter other posters who have said that football stadiums are not the "right place" for football players to kneel), I just disagree. The right place is the place where your protest is lawful and where your protest will educate others. There's only so much point in protesting racism with the members of your family, many of whom are likely of the same race as you, in the privacy of your home. Surely the point of protest is to foster conversation, awareness and learning about the injustice that concerns you?

While I think teachers have an individual right to kneel, I'd absolutely agree that it's not legit to bring personal politics into the classroom (they are public employees, at least teachers at public schools are.) I don't know that this is "illegal" but in my mind a pubic employee should represent as much of the public as they reasonably can... So that would be an example of the kind of protest I could not condone. Just as I would say that protesters who destroy property that is not their own should never be supported.

But outside of these kinds of examples, a safe lawful protest is best done in public and is most likely to produce a meaningful conversation about racism if it's visible.

Anonymous wrote:I am reading this thread with some dismay. I'm surprised at the posters who don't believe there is still racism in America and in the world.

Take Lebron James--he's making more money than most of us will ever make, he's considered a superior athlete and a talented individual admired by many. His house is probably in a "very secure" neighborhood. Yet, even he had someone spraypaint the N-word on his front gate.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/sport/lebron-james-racist-graffiti-incident/index.html

I'm not sure that white Americans can picture what it's like to have words spraypainted on their homes? I'm a white woman--I can't picture coming home to "c*nt" spraypainted on my home? These things do not generally happen to most white Americans, even poor ones, let alone wealthy ones.

I think there are many many other instances of these kinds of insults. Can white Americans picture being afraid of being shot by police officers who might stop you for a speeding ticket? Can white Americans picture being unwelcome because your neighbors are convinced their house will depreciate in value because you B.O.U.G.H.T. a home at market value?

Has even one poster said theer is not racism in America or world? Can you please quote someone who has said this?

Anonymous wrote:They have the right to kneel--but I have the right to disapprove and accuse them of being ungrateful.

This. No one is taking away their right to protest. I just think its an asshole (and useless) way to do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the stupidest "protest" trend I have ever seen. I have zero problems with someone not saying the pledge. But they must truly be idiots if they think kneeling, a sign of deference and respect, connotes civil disobedience. I would just think a person kneeling was extra-patriotic. GIANT FAIL.

I know, right? I see "kneel", I think "genuflect to our dear leader".

The only person in this whole mess who has shown any courage or conviction is the Pittsburgh Steelers Army Ranger who came out on his own and was the lone player on his team on the field for the national anthem. The rest are sheeple and cowards.

He's one of a very few veterans in the NFL. Serving in the military tends to be a good indicator of love of country. The people disrespecting the Flag & Country are able to do so thanks to the sacrifice of a few.

I think the players should be allowed to disrespect the Flag/Country on their time, it's their right, on their own time. But in a league where you can be fined $15,000 for mismatched socks or wearing the wrong brand of shoes they should certainly be fined/fired for doing it in uniform.

...and personally I have the right to burn their jerseys too....

I just bought an Alejandro Villanueva jersey I'll wear with pride. True hero.

Same here.

That's a guy.