Anonymous wrote:Assume most people have seen this by now if not google

Curious on thoughts of individuals

Are there actual differences between males and females?

How much should companies push for diversity (sexual, racial, etc)?

For something like coding does race/sex matter at all shouldn't you just higher the best coders period?

Remember folks, this is the company that pleads for more low skilled entry level IT workers, because they can't find enough qualified IT workers, yet their average age is 27!!!

So far, 269 people have joined a class-action lawsuit against Google claiming they were discriminated against in the workplace based on their age. The scope of the lawsuit against Alphabet's Google division was revealed in a ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Howard Lloyd and follows what he referred to as a “lengthy” hearing that took place in a San Jose on July 26.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2017/08/01/google-age-discrimination-lawsuit-class-action.html

and the democrats take it up the rear from Google to get their money. so sad!

I have a cousin whose husband works at Google and he expresses similar sentiments to the person who wrote the memo- he thinks the women and black people at Google are less qualified than he is and only got there because of diversity initiatives. He's not particularly shy about it and I am sure that a lot of men at Google feel the same. The company created a forum for employees to discuss and express themselves, and then fires someone for doing so. Yes, his opinion is wrong, and shitty, but it is obvious that there are a lot of shitty people at Google despite its trying-too-hard efforts to be seen as a "nice" place where everyone codes and plays ping pong and gives each other high-fives all day.

Jerks have to work too. And the writer did not use particularly invective language, he was just giving voice to a sentiment that a lot of people at the company have. Instead of working to change the culture, they fired him, because that's a lot easier, and now all the smart misogynists will know to keep their mouths shut.

Anonymous wrote:i have an engineering degree. which i never use, but my parents made me get it. it backfired, not only on them but it basically ruined my career.

i am very good at math and my whole life i have been pressured to do stuff that is related to math. i hate computers, and hate sitting behind one all day long. but even after doing a 180 i am still here, stuck at the computer. it's infuriating.

i don't know who are these women who are discouraged from math. everyone in the US is told that math is easy and fun anyways. and compared to engineering and computer science (shudder) it is. no sensible person wants to be a programmer, it's incredibly boring and not really all that well paid. that these programming google jobs are held as something desirable is beyond me. i would rather eat my shoes than get one.

I will care when they push to get 50% males in HR and recruiting departments. These are basically owned by women.

The double standard left continues to amaze me. Code of Conduct and Free speech are two different things.

i have an engineering degree. which i never use, but my parents made me get it. it backfired, not only on them but it basically ruined my career.

i am very good at math and my whole life i have been pressured to do stuff that is related to math. i hate computers, and hate sitting behind one all day long. but even after doing a 180 i am still here, stuck at the computer. it's infuriating.

i don't know who are these women who are discouraged from math. everyone in the US is told that math is easy and fun anyways. and compared to engineering and computer science (shudder) it is. no sensible person wants to be a programmer, it's incredibly boring and not really all that well paid. that these programming google jobs are held as something desirable is beyond me. i would rather eat my shoes than get one.

Anonymous wrote: He just said that maybe fewer females in tech is cannot be attributed exclusively to prejudice. he doesn't deny the existence of bias, he says there are also other things at play.

Decades of cumulative prejudice. In elementary school, a doctors appointment meant that I apparently missed a math assessment test. Teacher just randomly placed me in a remedial math group. My mom had to go to the school and demand to see the assessment test (which they couldn't find) in order to get me in the appropriate group. A few years later, similar problem. I ended up missing two weeks of math classes with my normal cohort before getting re-assigned. middle school, math teacher was smitten with IQ tests, and only wanted to pay attention to the boys with high IQs. She actively gloated at how much I would hate having math class with her, so I went and got myself into the advanced algebra class instead. High school, one math teacher was annoyed I was daring to double up on math classes and when she found out I had broken up with my boyfriend, called my mom and asked if I wouldn't drop the class so a boy could get in "now that her boyfriend won't be doing her homework for her". (he was copying my homework). The following year the calc teacher actively would spend time in class complaining that he had a female in the class at all. Comp sci teacher gently consoled me that it was probably ok that I couldn't afford to apply to many colleges because I was just destined for marriage anyway.

Not very long ago, back in college, a professor during his office hours ignored my questions about the programming project and informed me that it sounded like I wasn't getting laid enough if I woke up with programming questions. He later informed me he'd be willing to take me on as a PhD student if I'd drop the attitude (and sleep with him?).

Decades of people, men and women, thinking that it was perfectly OK to mock and belittle and exclude a female for just wanting to be in the appropriate STEM classes for her abilities. The women in tech have to actively fight to be there and remain. Any (young, white) guy can roll up and it's just assumed that he has earned a shot at a seat at the table. And his profs probably didn't try to get sex just for answering some fucking programming questions.

Anonymous wrote:Apparently, the alt-right is rallying around him. They feel he is being silenced. I disagree he merely wrote down the prevailing and dominant voice in tech. It bothers me that men feel it is ok and needs to be defended.

Oh and don't worry about his future, he is getting job offers!

Need more coffee. To clarify, I disagree that any man is being silenced in tech. He just wrote down existing sentiments.

Apparently, the alt-right is rallying around him. They feel he is being silenced. I disagree he merely wrote down the prevailing and dominant voice in tech. It bothers me that men feel it is ok and needs to be defended.

Oh and don't worry about his future, he is getting job offers!

I am curious why he would do it? Didn't he realize what the repercussions would be? Was he drunk or naive? I know a lot of people who are tired of PC b/s but would never admit it in any formal setting.
I didn't find anything outrageous in his note. He just said that maybe fewer females in tech is cannot be attributed exclusively to prejudice. he doesn't deny the existence of bias, he says there are also other things at play.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure that most of you have read already that the man was identified and was let go from the company.

For slightly more details and the company's CEO's response:
https://www.recode.net/2017/8/7/16110696/firing-google-ceo-employee-penned-controversial-memo-on-women-has-violated-its-code-of-conduct

I don't know why people confuses companies with governments. Companies don't have to give a shit about an individual. If he makes the company looks bad, he is gone. I don't know why he or anybody thought it was a good idea to air your political view to the entire company. All these push for diversity, bla bla are either for good PR or for necessity. No company will ever give a worker bee a job just because she is a woman.

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting to note that in more developing countries women choose to study STEM at much higher rates than in wealthier countries. Those developing countries have much more patriarchial cultures.

It is because STEM is the only place in those society where women could compete with men fairly, regardless of gender, social economic classes... The rules are simple and relatively unbiased: you are out if you could not solve that partial differential equation. I came from one of those 3rd world countries. The bullshit they put women through make STEM look so easy.

He sounds like a conservative nut who doesn't believe in science. Hopefully, he's not a 2nd amendment whack job too. Hopefully the security at Google is tight.

I'm sure that most of you have read already that the man was identified and was let go from the company.

For slightly more details and the company's CEO's response:
https://www.recode.net/2017/8/7/16110696/firing-google-ceo-employee-penned-controversial-memo-on-women-has-violated-its-code-of-conduct

Anonymous wrote:
NP. here's a list of a few women in tech communities: https://www.womentechmakers.com/communities

Active communities I'm a part of include techladymafia, systers, net-grrls

Grace Hopper is a truly amazing experience, but I admit to wanting to throw things when Sandberg stood in front of thousands of women and said that the best thing for their career, if they could lean that way, would be to get a wife. Because "person who offloads all of the day to day management of household shit for the primary wage earner" can apparently only be "wife".

I understand why they pretty much always have Sandberg as a speaker, but it's basically a running joke between the attendees how awful she is. The year I went, she was on the stage with the President of Harvey Mudd, and in terms of making pathways for women in tech there was just no comparison. Sandberg is all about herself, and she packages it as feminism. Whereas she was onstage with a woman who has actually transformed the way women are introduced to tech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a fellow woman in tech, this really resonated with my - especially your description of the infantalization of technical women.

My DH is also an engineer, and now in a position to do a lot of hiring. He's been absolutely aghast at some of the comments he gets from people after interviews. His coworkers literally saying "she's smart and can do the job, but we're really technical in this group, so I don't think she'd want to"
WTF.

Agree with you both. I also wish I knew you in real life!! There are days I feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall.

10:26 here. We could set up a tech women community...I'm not sure there are any right now that exist independent of an employer that is trying to build one for the women in their company.

Also, if you've never been, you should try to attend the Grace Hopper Conference. It's amazing to attend a conference of that size that's almost all women.

NP. here's a list of a few women in tech communities: https://www.womentechmakers.com/communities

Active communities I'm a part of include techladymafia, systers, net-grrls

Grace Hopper is a truly amazing experience, but I admit to wanting to throw things when Sandberg stood in front of thousands of women and said that the best thing for their career, if they could lean that way, would be to get a wife. Because "person who offloads all of the day to day management of household shit for the primary wage earner" can apparently only be "wife".