Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And that doesn't even touch on the ways that men and women typically deal with dating and relationships before starting a family. Women typically spend a huge amount of time and energy worrying about and trying to attract men for the gratification of male attention and often ultimately to start a family.

Of course there are individual men who are emotionally vulnerable and have heartbreak. But then there are so many -- including in this thread -- who would say we wouldn't even be that nice except we want sex.

For whatever reason, this bit of PP's response reminded me of a good Cracked article, "Five Ways Modern Men are Trained to Hate Women"
http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html

5. "We were told that society owed us a hot girl."
4. "We're trained from birth to see you as a decoration."
3. "We think you're conspiring with our boners to ruin us."
2. "We feel like manhood was stolen from us at some point."
1. "We feel powerless." (A paragraph from this, "This is why no amount of male domination will ever be enough, why no level of control or privilege or female submission will ever satisfy us. We can put you under a burqa, we can force you out of the workplace -- it won't matter. You're still all we think about, and that gives you power over us. And we resent you for it.")

Nice collection of thimble deep stereotypes used as a click bait article.

There are many assumptions being made about what other people deal with here. All I can say is that all groups have their challenges. You can choose to disproportionately fixate on your own struggles while minimizing those of others if you like. In the end, you will have a richer life, with less bitterness, if you can get out of your emotional and cultural silo and be able to see others less as malevolent cartoon characters and more as complex beings who struggle with problems that you don't even know exist because we all have blind spots that are imposed by our inevitably limited perspectives.

Anonymous wrote:
And that doesn't even touch on the ways that men and women typically deal with dating and relationships before starting a family. Women typically spend a huge amount of time and energy worrying about and trying to attract men for the gratification of male attention and often ultimately to start a family.

Of course there are individual men who are emotionally vulnerable and have heartbreak. But then there are so many -- including in this thread -- who would say we wouldn't even be that nice except we want sex.

For whatever reason, this bit of PP's response reminded me of a good Cracked article, "Five Ways Modern Men are Trained to Hate Women"
http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html

5. "We were told that society owed us a hot girl."
4. "We're trained from birth to see you as a decoration."
3. "We think you're conspiring with our boners to ruin us."
2. "We feel like manhood was stolen from us at some point."
1. "We feel powerless." (A paragraph from this, "This is why no amount of male domination will ever be enough, why no level of control or privilege or female submission will ever satisfy us. We can put you under a burqa, we can force you out of the workplace -- it won't matter. You're still all we think about, and that gives you power over us. And we resent you for it.")

I agree with the PP who said the term patriarchy or feminism can alienate, but this thread did mention the problems and posted links to a few articles about them.

- caregiving disparities - balance between grudge work and fun
- default parent responsibilities (responsibility for thinking through everything that needs to be done for children and/or family)
- collection of biases in the workplaces that are subtle but prevent women's advancement (tightrope between being perceived as nice or competent) that make it difficult for women to advance at work or deal with work/family challenges

And that doesn't even touch on the ways that men and women typically deal with dating and relationships before starting a family. Women typically spend a huge amount of time and energy worrying about and trying to attract men for the gratification of male attention and often ultimately to start a family.

Of course there are individual men who are emotionally vulnerable and have heartbreak. But then there are so many -- including in this thread -- who would say we wouldn't even be that nice except we want sex. Or think it's funny to needle the OP with sexual taunting. Geesh.

It's strange to me that more people don't step back and question . . . all of it. That doesn't mean hating men or assuming each individual one is "bad." It's very jargony and abstract perhaps to emphasis this - but it's the _culture_ that's the problem. These behaviors are the result of it.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you want an orgasm, you gotta get up on top and work for it. Talk about entitlement...sheesh.

I know this is half-joking, but it's true. No one can "give" you an orgasm. I think the reason men usually have no problem getting orgasms is because they don't have a passive mindset about someone else "giving" one to them.. They learn how to just hump away until they climax.

OP, you want an orgasm, you gotta get up on top and work for it. Talk about entitlement...sheesh.

Anonymous wrote:12:24 - you think patriarchy is disgusting? or you think anyone objecting to it is disgusting? it really wasn't clear.

The posters here who seems so amazed and shocked and think this is an abstract term from a college seminar with no relevance in the real world are quite something. That's why these problems endure. Most don't even question these behaviors or link them together or think they could ever be changed.

The problems are there, but describing them with jargon like "patriarchy" doesn't really help anything. It prompts the choir to say, "amen," but does not bring opponents to your side and tends to alienate those who are merely indifferent. Use every-day words to describe the problems and solutions.

12:24 - you think patriarchy is disgusting? or you think anyone objecting to it is disgusting? it really wasn't clear.

The posters here who seems so amazed and shocked and think this is an abstract term from a college seminar with no relevance in the real world are quite something. That's why these problems endure. Most don't even question these behaviors or link them together or think they could ever be changed.

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a tedious contrarian. It's not surprising that you have trouble with relationships. Lighten up and stop "reinterpreting" other's points in a hyperbolic way. This isn't the high school debate club.

I have never heard that before. Thanks! I will be using that, or a form of it, when applicable.

This thread is disgusting.

I was going to write a lot more but this pretty much sums it up.

This is an incredibly stupid thread.

Not all women are great, not all men are great, not all black people are great, not all white people are great, not all latino/a people are great, not all of any one group of people are great. Not all of any one group of people are anything.

Writing off a group because they are x, y or z is so stupid. And will likely result in you missing out in some great people. So whatever you know, you do you. But I don't know why any of us would care honestly. I will continue to enjoy the time I spend with my really great guy of a husband and my brothers and male friends and relatives. I'm sure there are women out there who will appreciate them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is the female equivalent of men who post on places like Reddit's Red Pill: bitter, social awkward young men who lack the ability to view themselves realistically and generalize women in the most inflammatory ways possible. OP would fit right in if she was born with a Y chromosome.

I'm actually pretty concerned about this and what it means for society in the long term and short term. Men and women both make out the opposite sex to be the root of all evil, projecting personal problems onto an entire group of people. It's sad. There are sex-based issues, of course. But the rampant generalizations and hostility are no good for actually solving any of those problems.

I worry about this too, but I think (perhaps wishful thinking) most people are sensible enough not to paint everyone with such a broad brush.

The Internet has made it easier for less reasonable, perspective-impaired, people to get on the soapbox. In the past, people like this would already be well known within their community as someone whose opinions tend to be a bit extreme and should be taken with a grain of salt. On the Internet, anonymity means that the village idiot has an equal standing with a thoughtful, empathic person.

Just replace "opposite sex" with other races or religions and you basically have the human condition. Some people are always predisposed towards aggressively judging the Other, however they define it.

True. It's just that I see it on mainstream sites as well- not just anonymous parenting boards where people work out their aggression- and it's troubling.

I think every gender (and religion, race, etc.) has its own challenges that aren't immediately obvious to people who are not members of their in-group. The Internet has made it easier for each of these groups to circle the wagons into their little echo chambers where discussions about how the in-group is being eternally victimized by the out-group. I think this is particularly noticeable in younger people (<30) where opinions and world views seem to be getting increasingly polarized along gender and racial lines, perhaps because they do not remember a time before the media fragmentation took off.

The Internet ... such a bummer that it has allowed oppressed peoples to get together and share information about their oppression with each other and then share information about their oppression and how to fight it globally thru "fragmented" outlets like Facebook and Twitter.

If it weren't for the Internet maybe those oppressed people wouldn't be so unhappy.

Take women for instance, if it weren't for the Internet, no one would have even known about that rape trial where the rape victim's victim impact statement was released online. If she hadn't been able to share her pain with her little in group, she probably would have just told her story in court and accepted that 6 month sentence that swimmer guy got and everyone would have been much happier.

Damn internet and those young people who insist on using it to reach out to people they don't even know. It was so much better when us women could be beaten by our husbands and raped by our boyfriends in the privacy of our own homes and when we couldn't even tell anyone about it because all we had access to were telephones and face-to-face conversations. Women felt so much less fragmented and isolated back then.

LOL sure nice try troll. Go back to your cave.

Crap. You don't take me seriously, did you? I was, of course, being sarcastic in order to point out how ridiculous the PP at 20:16 was being....

20:16 wasn't at all being ridiculous. She made quite good points, actually.

As someone who's part of the sub-30 category she mentions, I see what she mentioned play out every day. I can't speak for her, what you seem to have taken from her post isn't what I got at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is the female equivalent of men who post on places like Reddit's Red Pill: bitter, social awkward young men who lack the ability to view themselves realistically and generalize women in the most inflammatory ways possible. OP would fit right in if she was born with a Y chromosome.

I'm actually pretty concerned about this and what it means for society in the long term and short term. Men and women both make out the opposite sex to be the root of all evil, projecting personal problems onto an entire group of people. It's sad. There are sex-based issues, of course. But the rampant generalizations and hostility are no good for actually solving any of those problems.

I worry about this too, but I think (perhaps wishful thinking) most people are sensible enough not to paint everyone with such a broad brush.

The Internet has made it easier for less reasonable, perspective-impaired, people to get on the soapbox. In the past, people like this would already be well known within their community as someone whose opinions tend to be a bit extreme and should be taken with a grain of salt. On the Internet, anonymity means that the village idiot has an equal standing with a thoughtful, empathic person.

Just replace "opposite sex" with other races or religions and you basically have the human condition. Some people are always predisposed towards aggressively judging the Other, however they define it.

True. It's just that I see it on mainstream sites as well- not just anonymous parenting boards where people work out their aggression- and it's troubling.

I think every gender (and religion, race, etc.) has its own challenges that aren't immediately obvious to people who are not members of their in-group. The Internet has made it easier for each of these groups to circle the wagons into their little echo chambers where discussions about how the in-group is being eternally victimized by the out-group. I think this is particularly noticeable in younger people (<30) where opinions and world views seem to be getting increasingly polarized along gender and racial lines, perhaps because they do not remember a time before the media fragmentation took off.

The Internet ... such a bummer that it has allowed oppressed peoples to get together and share information about their oppression with each other and then share information about their oppression and how to fight it globally thru "fragmented" outlets like Facebook and Twitter.

If it weren't for the Internet maybe those oppressed people wouldn't be so unhappy.

Take women for instance, if it weren't for the Internet, no one would have even known about that rape trial where the rape victim's victim impact statement was released online. If she hadn't been able to share her pain with her little in group, she probably would have just told her story in court and accepted that 6 month sentence that swimmer guy got and everyone would have been much happier.

Damn internet and those young people who insist on using it to reach out to people they don't even know. It was so much better when us women could be beaten by our husbands and raped by our boyfriends in the privacy of our own homes and when we couldn't even tell anyone about it because all we had access to were telephones and face-to-face conversations. Women felt so much less fragmented and isolated back then.

You sound like a tedious contrarian. It's not surprising that you have trouble with relationships. Lighten up and stop "reinterpreting" other's points in a hyperbolic way. This isn't the high school debate club.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I'm not alone. I have a rich life . . . just celibate, which is the point that started the thread.

So, what's the problem then? If you're happy, then go on and be happy. Men will go on just fine without you.

I agree with this.

At the end of the day, no woman is entitled to sex with a social conscious, feminist, intellectual, high earning man. In the same way no man is entitled to sex with a bombshell French model.

Every man is going to say something stupid, insensitive, or otherwise not PC. At their core, most of these men are solid guys who just need a smart woman to occasionally call them out on their foot-in-mouth syndrome. This is how I "got better" and evolved my views. It shouldn't be shocking to women that men are not the most intuitive.

This thread could have been written by any number of my colleagues, who are either single or divorced. Frankly, I have told them that they are setting themselves up for a lifetime of disappointment if you expect a man to be your EQ equivalent. It's just not going to happen.

Please are you seriously saying women do not say or do anything sexist or hurtful? OP is the typical feminists- everyone else is wrong and needs to change to accommodate her. In reality, she is the one who needs to change or life will go one without her.

Women who complain about "manspreading" are an embarrassment: so petty and ignorant.

It's not just about the presence of testicles, although that is a factor. It's just much easier to close your legs when you have wide hips.