Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can at grade level kids be challenged in a classroom of most of the kids are performing well below grade level? It can't be done. No parent would put their child in such a position. DCPS and other school districts can't wish away this fact.

Tell that tot he administrator who hold teacher's responsible for students' growth via IMPACT!

Teachers should prefer growth over achievement. There are schools (Jefferson is one of them) that gets a bunch of kids who read on a 3rd grade level up to an 8th grade level in three years. Schools that can do that should be commended. But I agree that parents who have 5th graders who already read on an 8th grade level are understandably leery of sending their kids to a place like Jefferson, because they don't trust that the school will also be able to do that. The teachers are obviously gifted, and if there were a bunch of advanced kids entering, I'm sure they would make a bunch of progress n a separate class. But no parent wants their kid to be the only advanced one, or even part of a handful of advanced kids.

If a test-in IBD program at Eastern were restricted to Ward 6 residents it wouldn't be nearly as strong as if the test-in catchment area comprised all wards. In MoCo, county-wide test-in programs give preferential treatment in admissions to qualified local residents living with a few miles of a school using set asides (e.g. 25-50% of spots to local residents). It's a model that's worked very well for MoCo at schools roughly on a par with Eastern academically before magnets were established. High fliers from around the county eagerly commute as much as an hour to attend magnets. Those who live far afield need to be high-performing than those living nearby to have a shot of being admitted. The arrangement is a akin to applying to a flagship state university from out of state. I can't see DCPS following suit, but then who knows, DC is full of surprises.

How does city-wide test in help Ward 6?

Any test-in models in gentrifying areas under consideration should take economic deprivation into account, e.g. adding points to admissions test scores for FARMs to help low SES students clear cut-offs. But if a student accepts the extra points, they need to complete additional course work before enrolling. This system has been in place in South African government schools and universities since the end of apartheid, where it seems to work well. We practically have apartheid in DC schools, so why not try it?

Yea, OK, 3 English classes in 9th grade...and average SAT scores in the low 300s at the other end. Eastern seniors must take the SAT to graduate. Random guessing on the SAT gets your test taker around a 275.

I've done academic research on how Eastern's IB Diploma program is shaping up. After two years of IBD testing, their highest points total has been in the mid 20s (on a pass scale of 24-45), the IBD equivalent of around a D+. Only a dozen Eastern seniors have been taking IBD exams in June. My time in the building talking to admins, and conversations with the DCPS Teaching and Learning team (the policy and budget people who support public IBD programs), has left me with the strong impression there there is no real interest in the system in attracting high SES/strong IBD students to Eastern. The clear message is, we don't need you Ward 6 snobs and racists here, continue to stay away if you're not satisfied with the set up, because we've already given you all you asked for at Eastern, and much more.

It's much easier to blame the gentrifiers for failing to turn up than to delve into the real issues under-girding racial and socioeconomic segregation in our public schools. I don't see the situation changing anytime soon. Maybe the next mayor will be willing to roll his or her sleeves up to effect real change, but I doubt it.

I'd like to see SAT cutoffs for 9th graders established and implemented at Eastern to support an IBD Program with a city-wide draw, with preference given for qualified Ward 6 applicants. The Johns Hopkins MS and HS CTY (Center for Talented Youth) camps have been using the SAT in admissions for decades. With the CTY camps, if an applicant clears an SAT bar for 8th graders, posting scores in the high 500s for both reading and math, they're welcome to enroll in a camp for rising 9th graders. If they can't clear the bar, they can't enroll. No grades, GPA, recommendations or interview in the mix, just the acid test - SAT scores. But, to help all applicants, free SAT prep should be provided a centers/schools city wide to help 8th graders prepare for the test (Boston provides free, universal entrance exam prep to their 3 exam schools, and NYC city provides it for the SSAT test governing admission to their 8 magnet high schools). There are good models out there that DC could draw on if school leaders were willing to stop playing the blame game with the gentrifiers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eastern in its current form is so far from what high SES parents are looking for that it's silly to start the discussion there. I try to support my neighborhood schools, so I went to a plant sale they were doing there to support their garden program. The kids checking off how many of each plant were being purchased legitimately took 1-2 minutes per plant to find the name and check it off despite the plants being written in alphabetical order. It was multiple kids and I'd guess they were each reading at a 3rd-5th grade grade level. They seemed like nice kids but there's just no way Eastern can meaningfully provide for them and my neighbors' 6 year old who already reads at the same level without some sort of tracking program. If it's just that the future 6 year old gets pulled out/given advanced work for every class with no/limited teacher interaction, that's not what most people want or should want for their kids out of a high school. Of course they look elsewhere.

you have no idea if those kids were representative of Eastern but way to generalize. If all the white Hill parents sent their kids to Eastern they would fill up the IB and AP classes and it would be fine.

Adding -- there are 3 9th grade english classes and AP and IB for upper grades. If the students were there, there would be more.

Anonymous wrote:Eastern in its current form is so far from what high SES parents are looking for that it's silly to start the discussion there. I try to support my neighborhood schools, so I went to a plant sale they were doing there to support their garden program. The kids checking off how many of each plant were being purchased legitimately took 1-2 minutes per plant to find the name and check it off despite the plants being written in alphabetical order. It was multiple kids and I'd guess they were each reading at a 3rd-5th grade grade level. They seemed like nice kids but there's just no way Eastern can meaningfully provide for them and my neighbors' 6 year old who already reads at the same level without some sort of tracking program. If it's just that the future 6 year old gets pulled out/given advanced work for every class with no/limited teacher interaction, that's not what most people want or should want for their kids out of a high school. Of course they look elsewhere.

you have no idea if those kids were representative of Eastern but way to generalize. If all the white Hill parents sent their kids to Eastern they would fill up the IB and AP classes and it would be fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, parents want their at grade level/above grade level kids to be challenged. Academic level usually correlates with SES but not always. I don't think parents would care if their kids went to class with smart, motivated students from a lower SES at all.

I think the point here is that you LIVE IN DC. Not in an enclave with all high SES or "motivated" low SES students. It is appropriate to want your child to be taught appropriately. It is inappropriate to push for segregated solutions in Ward 6.

And what will be the result if there is no sort of tracking or programming for creating cohorts of mostly on grade level students? Extreme segregation as people move away in search of that. So you have some sort of segregation anyway. How about a solution where students who can't move away at least. S edit from all sorts of families using the neighborhood school?

You act like history began when you gave birth.

What "happens" is what you see now. As the school populations change, the offerings change (see Hardy or MacFarland's dual language program).

But UNTIL and UNLESS you enroll your kids, you aren't going to get the programs that match your kid's abilities. DCPS tried that on the Hill/Ward 6 and it didn't work. I'm referring to Eastern HS where DCPS went through a lengthy and expensive process to become an IB school because high SES parents said that sort of rigorous programming + upgraded facilities -- were what would induce them to enroll. And no one did, because the IB program isn't 'proven' or scoring high enough on IB exams or whatever other excuse. DCPS held up its end of the bargain; Hill parents balked.

DCPS made a dumb decision, then with Eastern. They needed to sort out the middle school situation FIRST. duh. This is precisely why parents have little to no confidence in DCPS outside of NW beyond elementary grades. Bass ackwards ( and expensive ) decisions like this. Eastern is gorgeous. It is, by all reports, serving its students better than before the re-start. But if the GOAL was to get white and lots of black middle class hill residents to go there for high school, it was a complete fumble and entirely their fault.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:How can at grade level kids be challenged in a classroom of most of the kids are performing well below grade level? It can't be done. No parent would put their child in such a position. DCPS and other school districts can't wish away this fact.

Tell that tot he administrator who hold teacher's responsible for students' growth via IMPACT!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, parents want their at grade level/above grade level kids to be challenged. Academic level usually correlates with SES but not always. I don't think parents would care if their kids went to class with smart, motivated students from a lower SES at all.

I think the point here is that you LIVE IN DC. Not in an enclave with all high SES or "motivated" low SES students. It is appropriate to want your child to be taught appropriately. It is inappropriate to push for segregated solutions in Ward 6.

And what will be the result if there is no sort of tracking or programming for creating cohorts of mostly on grade level students? Extreme segregation as people move away in search of that. So you have some sort of segregation anyway. How about a solution where students who can't move away at least. S edit from all sorts of families using the neighborhood school?

You act like history began when you gave birth.

What "happens" is what you see now. As the school populations change, the offerings change (see Hardy or MacFarland's dual language program).

But UNTIL and UNLESS you enroll your kids, you aren't going to get the programs that match your kid's abilities. DCPS tried that on the Hill/Ward 6 and it didn't work. I'm referring to Eastern HS where DCPS went through a lengthy and expensive process to become an IB school because high SES parents said that sort of rigorous programming + upgraded facilities -- were what would induce them to enroll. And no one did, because the IB program isn't 'proven' or scoring high enough on IB exams or whatever other excuse. DCPS held up its end of the bargain; Hill parents balked.

DCPS made a dumb decision, then with Eastern. They needed to sort out the middle school situation FIRST. duh. This is precisely why parents have little to no confidence in DCPS outside of NW beyond elementary grades. Bass ackwards ( and expensive ) decisions like this. Eastern is gorgeous. It is, by all reports, serving its students better than before the re-start. But if the GOAL was to get white and lots of black middle class hill residents to go there for high school, it was a complete fumble and entirely their fault.

This was the Michelle Rhee era; they focused on ECE and expansion of Pk3 to many more schools (that worked). The emphasis was to push the Pk3-8th educational centers although that was pretty quickly abandoned, leaving us with the mess we have now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does a high school need to be test-in or even application? High schools have the ability to offer a wide range of programs and classes so that everyone has access to everything.

DC is a education space full of choices and options. I believe DCPS has shown it can attract a huge diversity of families.

To the folks here who are attempting to use shame and guilt - that does not work in attracting families to the Ward 6 middle schools. What works is building and investing in programs that can compete with charters, privates and the schools in the suburbs. DCPS is pretty close.

And finally - Joe Weedon has worked tirelessly to support and improve Elliot Hine and Eastern. I think we owe him thanks.

Right, shame and guilt are blunt instruments producing no results. But if DCPS is indeed "pretty close" here in Ward 6 why has Stuart Hobson been 80% OOB for years and years? Why have Eastern, Jefferson and Eliot-Hine failed to attract more than a handful of white students each in catchment areas that have been majority white for a decade now? DCPS isn't in fact close outside Upper NW. They're hundreds of miles away, where they're content to stay because voters aren't canning the city council members who bump along with failed ed policies in gentrifying neighborhoods. Grosso is the worst offender.

Let's be honest, Jefferson and Eliot Hine have not only failed to attract white families, they have failed to attract black families. They have failed to attract the number of families they need to survive. period. Plunging enrollments and half-filled buildings. Please be honest about why. Happy talk is worthless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, parents want their at grade level/above grade level kids to be challenged. Academic level usually correlates with SES but not always. I don't think parents would care if their kids went to class with smart, motivated students from a lower SES at all.

I think the point here is that you LIVE IN DC. Not in an enclave with all high SES or "motivated" low SES students. It is appropriate to want your child to be taught appropriately. It is inappropriate to push for segregated solutions in Ward 6.

And what will be the result if there is no sort of tracking or programming for creating cohorts of mostly on grade level students? Extreme segregation as people move away in search of that. So you have some sort of segregation anyway. How about a solution where students who can't move away at least. S edit from all sorts of families using the neighborhood school?

You act like history began when you gave birth.

What "happens" is what you see now. As the school populations change, the offerings change (see Hardy or MacFarland's dual language program).

But UNTIL and UNLESS you enroll your kids, you aren't going to get the programs that match your kid's abilities. DCPS tried that on the Hill/Ward 6 and it didn't work. I'm referring to Eastern HS where DCPS went through a lengthy and expensive process to become an IB school because high SES parents said that sort of rigorous programming + upgraded facilities -- were what would induce them to enroll. And no one did, because the IB program isn't 'proven' or scoring high enough on IB exams or whatever other excuse. DCPS held up its end of the bargain; Hill parents balked.

DCPS made a dumb decision, then with Eastern. They needed to sort out the middle school situation FIRST. duh. This is precisely why parents have little to no confidence in DCPS outside of NW beyond elementary grades. Bass ackwards ( and expensive ) decisions like this. Eastern is gorgeous. It is, by all reports, serving its students better than before the re-start. But if the GOAL was to get white and lots of black middle class hill residents to go there for high school, it was a complete fumble and entirely their fault.

Eastern in its current form is so far from what high SES parents are looking for that it's silly to start the discussion there. I try to support my neighborhood schools, so I went to a plant sale they were doing there to support their garden program. The kids checking off how many of each plant were being purchased legitimately took 1-2 minutes per plant to find the name and check it off despite the plants being written in alphabetical order. It was multiple kids and I'd guess they were each reading at a 3rd-5th grade grade level. They seemed like nice kids but there's just no way Eastern can meaningfully provide for them and my neighbors' 6 year old who already reads at the same level without some sort of tracking program. If it's just that the future 6 year old gets pulled out/given advanced work for every class with no/limited teacher interaction, that's not what most people want or should want for their kids out of a high school. Of course they look elsewhere.

Anonymous wrote:Why does a high school need to be test-in or even application? High schools have the ability to offer a wide range of programs and classes so that everyone has access to everything.

DC is a education space full of choices and options. I believe DCPS has shown it can attract a huge diversity of families.

To the folks here who are attempting to use shame and guilt - that does not work in attracting families to the Ward 6 middle schools. What works is building and investing in programs that can compete with charters, privates and the schools in the suburbs. DCPS is pretty close.

And finally - Joe Weedon has worked tirelessly to support and improve Elliot Hine and Eastern. I think we owe him thanks.

Right, shame and guilt are blunt instruments producing no results. But if DCPS is indeed "pretty close" here in Ward 6 why has Stuart Hobson been 80% OOB for years and years? Why have Eastern, Jefferson and Eliot-Hine failed to attract more than a handful of white students each in catchment areas that have been majority white for a decade now? DCPS isn't in fact close outside Upper NW. They're hundreds of miles away, where they're content to stay because voters aren't canning the city council members who bump along with failed ed policies in gentrifying neighborhoods. Grosso is the worst offender.

Anonymous wrote:Why does a high school need to be test-in or even application? High schools have the ability to offer a wide range of programs and classes so that everyone has access to everything.

DC is a education space full of choices and options. I believe DCPS has shown it can attract a huge diversity of families.

To the folks here who are attempting to use shame and guilt - that does not work in attracting families to the Ward 6 middle schools. What works is building and investing in programs that can compete with charters, privates and the schools in the suburbs. DCPS is pretty close.

And finally - Joe Weedon has worked tirelessly to support and improve Elliot Hine and Eastern. I think we owe him thanks.

And finally we circle back. You mean he supported the schools his children go to? What about the rest of the schools in Ward 6? Part of being an elected representative is working for all the Ward, not just your own intertests.