OP, I'm on your side. I hear you and think your intentions are good. But you have to face the reality of the situation and address the situation less directly. More loving aunt talking about the wonder of college with nephews than finding practical ($) based solutions that threaten the BIL. It's a more circuitous route of course. Regardless of what you now, it sounds like these kids will need a lot of emotional and practical support for years to come. The process might stretch out longer but I have faith you will help your nephews along.

Anonymous wrote:I'm increasingly convinced that OP is a troll. No one could be this clueless about how the "other half" (in this case, the other 99%) lives, especially with close family members who never went to college.

I grew up in a working poor/class ethos with my sister. I went one way, she went another. Nobody is demonizing the working class, or as someone else put it "using it as a slur." But ignorant people don't know what they don't know. Uneducated adults being suspicious or intimidated that their children will surpass them is a very real phenomenon. On a recent Malcolm Gladwell podcast they talk about a poor boy named Carlos whose druggy felon mom forbid him from attending Choate boarding school on full scholarship.

We're talking about 38-y.o. adults here that probably have the education of a suburban 6th grader. They've never stepped foot on a university campus before. Outside of maybe a couple colleagues (that don't associate with them outside of work) or distant "friends" on facebook, they don't know any college educated professionals. Most don't REALLY grasp just how narrow the scope is of a working poor/class adult and how this ethos stunts children. It's called cyclical poverty for a reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is a man who marries a woman with two children abandoned by their birth father, raises them as his own, raises the two chldren from his marriage, earns enough to provide for his family, enough for his wife to stay at home, and enough to support a nice surburban house and lifestyle a "deadbeat father"???

Only in dcum-world.

What a ridiculous snob you are OP!

I thought she was referring to the boys' uninvolved bio dad as the deadbeat?

She's referring to the bio dad.

I agree with your BIL - butt out and mind your own business.

Not everyone’s desire is to live like you and your DH apparently do. They have different priorities.
Who is to say these kids won’t have a great life? They are NOT your kids. And, your interference is not appreciated by the family.
Stay out of their decisions. Find something more productive to focus on.

Anonymous wrote:How is a man who marries a woman with two children abandoned by their birth father, raises them as his own, raises the two chldren from his marriage, earns enough to provide for his family, enough for his wife to stay at home, and enough to support a nice surburban house and lifestyle a "deadbeat father"???

Only in dcum-world.

What a ridiculous snob you are OP!

I thought she was referring to the boys' uninvolved bio dad as the deadbeat?

I'm increasingly convinced that OP is a troll. No one could be this clueless about how the "other half" (in this case, the other 99%) lives, especially with close family members who never went to college.

Anonymous wrote:Eh, not everyone goes to college right after HS.

Maybe they'll enroll at a CC part-time, work, and then transfer to a 4-year. I know many people who've done this--it's pretty common outside of the DCUM "fully-funded" college bubble.

Of course it's pretty common. OP thinks it's a waste of time and money.

Be honest, OP. You don't really want to help your nephews. You know you can, and you feel you should, but you don't really want to.

Eh, not everyone goes to college right after HS.

Maybe they'll enroll at a CC part-time, work, and then transfer to a 4-year. I know many people who've done this--it's pretty common outside of the DCUM "fully-funded" college bubble.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP still doesn't want to answer the question about whether or not VCU or JMU etc it is acceptable to her. I'm guessing that means no. She might pay for UVA or W&M or Tech, but anything else--not worth it. Better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college, apparently.

VCU accepts thousands of students every year that are not college material. They'd probably get accepted right now. Getting into VCU does not necessarily indicate an ability to finish college. 4-year grad rate of 30% and a 6-year grad rate of 50%. Agreeing to pay for VCU is agreeing to pay for year 5 and 6 ... and a 50% chance they never finish, thus a large sum of money down the drain.

Now if they really wanted to attend VCU and their SAT score and GPA earned them an extremely generous merit award, I'd cover the gap. But none of that happens without tutoring and SAT prep. How do I know this? I can see the patterns and make a prediction from report cards and test scores.

Iow, as PP said, better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college.

Yale or jail appear to be the only paths available for these boys.

Hyperbole. Many fine in-state colleges between Yale and VCU e.g. U-Va, V-Tech, Wash & Lee, William & Mary. I would not feel comfortable risking $100,000 to 150,000 on any college with near open-door admissions and only a 50% chance at completion.

Hyperbole?!? Are you kidding, OP? Who is the one engaging in hyperbole here?

UVA, W&L, W&M--These are schools that students in the top 10% of the best high schools in Virginia are rejected from. Are you saying that 90% of VA high school students shouldn't risk the money on college because they can't get into one the best colleges in the country? WTF?

I'll also add that your snobbery is not even well-informed. MOST colleges in the US have 4-year graduation rates of 50% or less. Are you of the opinion that students attending most of the colleges in the US are wasting their time and money? Taking unfathomable risk?

Perhaps you are unaware that VT accepts 73% of the students who apply and has a 4-year graduation rate of 62%. That's comparable to JMU, which has a 73% acceptance rate and a 4-year graduation rate of 66%. UMW has an 83% admission rate; 59% of students graduate in 4 years.

OP, how old are your children? I have a strong feeling they have not yet started the college search. You seem completely clueless.

I've been arguing for you to help these boys to the best of your ability, but now I'm going over to the other side. MYOB. Your attitude is toxic. Haven't you ever heard of the "soft bigotry of low expectations?" No wonder your sister and BIL have told you to piss off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP still doesn't want to answer the question about whether or not VCU or JMU etc it is acceptable to her. I'm guessing that means no. She might pay for UVA or W&M or Tech, but anything else--not worth it. Better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college, apparently.

VCU accepts thousands of students every year that are not college material. They'd probably get accepted right now. Getting into VCU does not necessarily indicate an ability to finish college. 4-year grad rate of 30% and a 6-year grad rate of 50%. Agreeing to pay for VCU is agreeing to pay for year 5 and 6 ... and a 50% chance they never finish, thus a large sum of money down the drain.

Now if they really wanted to attend VCU and their SAT score and GPA earned them an extremely generous merit award, I'd cover the gap. But none of that happens without tutoring and SAT prep. How do I know this? I can see the patterns and make a prediction from report cards and test scores.

Iow, as PP said, better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college.

Yale or jail appear to be the only paths available for these boys.

Hyperbole. Many fine in-state colleges between Yale and VCU e.g. U-Va, V-Tech, Wash & Lee, William & Mary. I would not feel comfortable risking $100,000 to 150,000 on any college with near open-door admissions and only a 50% chance at completion.

How is a man who marries a woman with two children abandoned by their birth father, raises them as his own, raises the two chldren from his marriage, earns enough to provide for his family, enough for his wife to stay at home, and enough to support a nice surburban house and lifestyle a "deadbeat father"???

Only in dcum-world.

What a ridiculous snob you are OP!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP still doesn't want to answer the question about whether or not VCU or JMU etc it is acceptable to her. I'm guessing that means no. She might pay for UVA or W&M or Tech, but anything else--not worth it. Better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college, apparently.

VCU accepts thousands of students every year that are not college material. They'd probably get accepted right now. Getting into VCU does not necessarily indicate an ability to finish college. 4-year grad rate of 30% and a 6-year grad rate of 50%. Agreeing to pay for VCU is agreeing to pay for year 5 and 6 ... and a 50% chance they never finish, thus a large sum of money down the drain.

Now if they really wanted to attend VCU and their SAT score and GPA earned them an extremely generous merit award, I'd cover the gap. But none of that happens without tutoring and SAT prep. How do I know this? I can see the patterns and make a prediction from report cards and test scores.

Alright, what about JMU or Mary Washington? Both have higher grad rates than Tech. What kind of grades do these kids have?

You do know that first gen is a hook, don't you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP still doesn't want to answer the question about whether or not VCU or JMU etc it is acceptable to her. I'm guessing that means no. She might pay for UVA or W&M or Tech, but anything else--not worth it. Better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college, apparently.

VCU accepts thousands of students every year that are not college material. They'd probably get accepted right now. Getting into VCU does not necessarily indicate an ability to finish college. 4-year grad rate of 30% and a 6-year grad rate of 50%. Agreeing to pay for VCU is agreeing to pay for year 5 and 6 ... and a 50% chance they never finish, thus a large sum of money down the drain.

Now if they really wanted to attend VCU and their SAT score and GPA earned them an extremely generous merit award, I'd cover the gap. But none of that happens without tutoring and SAT prep. How do I know this? I can see the patterns and make a prediction from report cards and test scores.

Iow, as PP said, better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college.

Yale or jail appear to be the only paths available for these boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP still doesn't want to answer the question about whether or not VCU or JMU etc it is acceptable to her. I'm guessing that means no. She might pay for UVA or W&M or Tech, but anything else--not worth it. Better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college, apparently.

VCU accepts thousands of students every year that are not college material. They'd probably get accepted right now. Getting into VCU does not necessarily indicate an ability to finish college. 4-year grad rate of 30% and a 6-year grad rate of 50%. Agreeing to pay for VCU is agreeing to pay for year 5 and 6 ... and a 50% chance they never finish, thus a large sum of money down the drain.

Now if they really wanted to attend VCU and their SAT score and GPA earned them an extremely generous merit award, I'd cover the gap. But none of that happens without tutoring and SAT prep. How do I know this? I can see the patterns and make a prediction from report cards and test scores.

Well, a 30% graduation rate is certainly better than the 0% graduation rate of people who don't go to college. But I get it, OP, you are clearly of the opinion that if they can't do this your way, there's no point in doing it at all.

Again, I will just say: Sounds like you've decided they are a lost cause. So you can wash your hands of this intractable problem and spend your money on something else.

You suck, OP.

Anonymous wrote:
OP still doesn't want to answer the question about whether or not VCU or JMU etc it is acceptable to her. I'm guessing that means no. She might pay for UVA or W&M or Tech, but anything else--not worth it. Better no degree at all than one from a "lesser" college, apparently.

VCU accepts thousands of students every year that are not college material. They'd probably get accepted right now. Getting into VCU does not necessarily indicate an ability to finish college. 4-year grad rate of 30% and a 6-year grad rate of 50%. Agreeing to pay for VCU is agreeing to pay for year 5 and 6 ... and a 50% chance they never finish, thus a large sum of money down the drain.

Now if they really wanted to attend VCU and their SAT score and GPA earned them an extremely generous merit award, I'd cover the gap. But none of that happens without tutoring and SAT prep. How do I know this? I can see the patterns and make a prediction from report cards and test scores.