It's not just that he divorced your mom and screwed her financially. He annulled their life together. He erased it and in turn delegitimized both you and your brother op. People saying he only divorced the mom, in this specific case, he did not. He basically said his life with all three of you was a lie.
I can't quite wrap my head around that.
It's beyond cruel and selfish.
To do that to children?
It's evil.

That being said...

The only person your mother is punishing now is herself (and her relationship with you)
Therapy needed to happen 15 years ago, but it's never too late. What your father did to your family is unspeakable. Have you sought therapy op?
You, and your mom need help. This is too big to try and tackle on your own.

Ps- I'm also of the mind, that I'm one badass mother fucker, and no one gets to have that kind of power over me and my happiness. No one.
Your mom needs to learn how to be a badass mother fucker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Sil's husband left her and the kids after 23 years of marriage. Everything was great until a ex gf looked him up from another state, and stalked them. By the time I helped sil look her up, he had already left. She had just divorced her 3rd husband, they were broke and she needed another life preserver. She was prettier and a little younger than sil, but shockingly he left his family like they were yesterday's garbage.

Long story but it was a very ugly 2.5 year divorce. He not only wanted the woman, but they BOTH wanted her nice home that was paid off. The judge gave her the home, she took less on the retirement. They ended up getting married and none of their 3 kids talk to him today, he doesn't see his grand-kids either. The great part is after 5 years that OW died of some heart thing. Less than a year later he started calling my sil to see if they could get back together, OMG. She told him where to go and to never call her or the kids again. Today he is in poor health and all alone except for his dog.

We have great laughs at times about the deceased OW, and stuff they did to her, how Karma got them both and how well she is doing.

Remind your mother how glad you are she doesn't have to live that that any longer, BUT the bimbo does and what a sad life she got out of. That's how I would handle it fyi.

OP here. That's a vindicating story.

The thing is: nothing bad has happened to or with dad and/or his wife. She works in the corporate world (my mom's in nonprofit) and so they have an absurdly higher household income than my mom and dad ever did. They live lavishly: they take nice vacations, have beautiful things, etc. Everything genuinely seems to be good - and they seem really happy together, which my mom and dad never were.

I sense that it's easier for my mom to place the blame squarely on OW, because my dad in truth did screw her (he's a lawyer - no surprise there). She'd stayed home for years with my brother and was just getting back into the job market when he told her he wanted the divorce. He left her high and dry. She ended up having to sell our house and was deeply emotionally impacted, which negatively affected her work performance.

I don't want to blather on but I want to make it clear that I understand her pain, but it sometimes feels like a huge burden for her to continuously berate dad's wife.

I agree that your mom needs to stop but, I'm surprised you have any sort of relationship with Dad/OW considering the impact of the divorce. It's one thing to be a philanderer and move on -- it's another thing to also screw her over in the divorce. Your dad is a dick.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP here: I know my dad was wrong, and I know my mom was hurt. My mom's career and financial situation - along with her social standing - suffered. I *get it.*

What kills me is that she still kind of adores my dad, but will just lose her shit about his now-wife. She refuses to speak to or acknowledge her (dad's wife) at important gatherings - my wedding, my brother's recent graduation, etc.

It's an ugly situation and I acknowledge that, but it's so uncomfortable when she talks such trash about this woman. (With whom, admittedly, I am not close.) I just try to politely listen and steer the conversation elsewhere, but nothing works, and she's been saying the same things for a long time.

FWIW she is remarried, happily. I thought this would help her move on but it hasn't.

Uncomfortable? I would think it would be most uncomfortable that she was at these events. I wouldn't have invited the OW making that clear to your dad.

There is no reason for the OW to come to any family events, that's something you kids can control and should do.

She's my father's wife. You seem only to have empathy for the woman scorned here, not the kids who are continually picking up the pieces! Stand in my shoes sometime and see how easy it is.

Those pieces you have had to pick up are all caused by your dad. Allowing the OW at family get together's is not wise imo.

Oh do shut up. This isn't the 'OW' -- it's her stepmother of 15 years.

As you get older in life, I think you'll find that descriptions of past behaviors and choices will "stick."

This is so true. I think it's one thing to be cordial to ow, but to invite her to weddings or graduations was a horrible thing to do to their mom. It would be similar to inviting your molester, or someone who ran your kid over to a family event. Then telling you to "just get over it" since it happened over 15 years ago.

Do you know how awkward that is to implement in reality? My brother was seven when they got married and he lived with them half the time - it would be odd for her not to go to his graduation. As for my wedding - was I really supposed to invite my dad but not his wife of over fifteen years? All married couples were invited as couples.

My dad has experienced much pain and anguish (not at the time, but not too long after) and has asked for forgiveness from me, my brother, and my mother. The truth is: my dad and mom were never happy together. They had a shotgun wedding (you're welcome) and were truly incompatible. They bickered endlessly. That doesn't relieve my father of serious wrongdoings but it's over now. This is his life. This is who he's chosen to be with. We can't live in the past forever.

I know many that do. My bil cheated on his ex wife with his current wife. She wasn't invited to his son's wedding, isn't invited to their home or any of his grown kids celebrations. Christmas eve he goes over there, she does stuff with her family then they celebrate Christmas together. His kids told their dad from day one and that was 10 years ago. From what I know bil's new wife is fine with that, has no desire to be at those kinds of events.

My other sil whose husband cheated wasn't allow to bring ow to their family celebrations either. That story is about as bad as op's with her dad so it's pretty much up to the individuals involved. My sil never talked bad about ow in front of the kids (she dead now), but she told her kids she would never go to anything that woman was at. Maybe OP's mom is merely trying to get a reaction from her knowing it bothers her.

I try to look at all sides. I wonder how the kids would feel if mom started inviting their exes to family gatherings, doing things with them knowing it was an abusive relationship or worse. I'm sure that happens too.

I don't know. I can see a bit of both sides. Your dad was a first-class dick. Seriously. I can see why your mom would be pissed and see your relationship as a betrayal. However, those are her hang-ups and she really, REALLY needs to be in therapy b/c this sort of lingering resentment is not healthy.

This is your dad. He has apologized. But, it's a fine line to walk b/c your mom was the "victim" here. So you do need to be sensitive to that but I think it is unreasonable for her to demand that you have no relationship with him.

The way we've dealt with this in my family -though it's not as bad as what you describe- is simply to tell my mother-in-law (and it was me b/c DH is very non-confrontational) to just stop. She was spewing off about him on Xmas morning while DH was speaking to his dad on the phone and she was pissed about it. I looked her in the eye and told her to stop it, this was his father, he loves his father and she was not helping. No one was interested in her nasty comments. She did stop. For other big events, we've also told her that if she cannot get along and keep her mouth shut (e.g., baptisms, weddings, etc.) then she would not be invited and this was her decision.

This has worked relatively well. But, it also is different in that she had the affair that broke up the marriage (not that my DH's dad is easy. He is not.) MIL is in a worse position financially and relationship-wise that FIL with his wife and I think that grates on her.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP here: I know my dad was wrong, and I know my mom was hurt. My mom's career and financial situation - along with her social standing - suffered. I *get it.*

What kills me is that she still kind of adores my dad, but will just lose her shit about his now-wife. She refuses to speak to or acknowledge her (dad's wife) at important gatherings - my wedding, my brother's recent graduation, etc.

It's an ugly situation and I acknowledge that, but it's so uncomfortable when she talks such trash about this woman. (With whom, admittedly, I am not close.) I just try to politely listen and steer the conversation elsewhere, but nothing works, and she's been saying the same things for a long time.

FWIW she is remarried, happily. I thought this would help her move on but it hasn't.

Uncomfortable? I would think it would be most uncomfortable that she was at these events. I wouldn't have invited the OW making that clear to your dad.

There is no reason for the OW to come to any family events, that's something you kids can control and should do.

She's my father's wife. You seem only to have empathy for the woman scorned here, not the kids who are continually picking up the pieces! Stand in my shoes sometime and see how easy it is.

Those pieces you have had to pick up are all caused by your dad. Allowing the OW at family get together's is not wise imo.

Oh do shut up. This isn't the 'OW' -- it's her stepmother of 15 years.

As you get older in life, I think you'll find that descriptions of past behaviors and choices will "stick."

This is so true. I think it's one thing to be cordial to ow, but to invite her to weddings or graduations was a horrible thing to do to their mom. It would be similar to inviting your molester, or someone who ran your kid over to a family event. Then telling you to "just get over it" since it happened over 15 years ago.

Do you know how awkward that is to implement in reality? My brother was seven when they got married and he lived with them half the time - it would be odd for her not to go to his graduation. As for my wedding - was I really supposed to invite my dad but not his wife of over fifteen years? All married couples were invited as couples.

My dad has experienced much pain and anguish (not at the time, but not too long after) and has asked for forgiveness from me, my brother, and my mother. The truth is: my dad and mom were never happy together. They had a shotgun wedding (you're welcome) and were truly incompatible. They bickered endlessly. That doesn't relieve my father of serious wrongdoings but it's over now. This is his life. This is who he's chosen to be with. We can't live in the past forever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to get over. Took my family about 20 years to get over my dad doing this. Things will never be friendly

This made me think. Our dad cheated divorcing our mom for a woman half his age. Fast forward, he ended up dying, she ended up with the family assets. He stupidly didn't keep our family vacation home separate that was suppose to be ours long before he met her. It was suppose to go to us kids. Long after 20 years we were still being screwed. In our case, my dad's character was consistent right to the very end; same with step mother so shouldn't have been a surprise. And we had a relationship like OP does.

OP aside from changing the subject, have you talked to your mom telling her what you've said here?

No. She's defensive on most things and of course she would be on this especially.

So what, let her get defensive. Tell her it make you unhappy to see her stuck in the past when she has so much. If she truly doesn't get it then all you can do is change subject.

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Anonymous wrote:OP here: I know my dad was wrong, and I know my mom was hurt. My mom's career and financial situation - along with her social standing - suffered. I *get it.*

What kills me is that she still kind of adores my dad, but will just lose her shit about his now-wife. She refuses to speak to or acknowledge her (dad's wife) at important gatherings - my wedding, my brother's recent graduation, etc.

It's an ugly situation and I acknowledge that, but it's so uncomfortable when she talks such trash about this woman. (With whom, admittedly, I am not close.) I just try to politely listen and steer the conversation elsewhere, but nothing works, and she's been saying the same things for a long time.

FWIW she is remarried, happily. I thought this would help her move on but it hasn't.

Uncomfortable? I would think it would be most uncomfortable that she was at these events. I wouldn't have invited the OW making that clear to your dad.

There is no reason for the OW to come to any family events, that's something you kids can control and should do.

She's my father's wife. You seem only to have empathy for the woman scorned here, not the kids who are continually picking up the pieces! Stand in my shoes sometime and see how easy it is.

Those pieces you have had to pick up are all caused by your dad. Allowing the OW at family get together's is not wise imo.

Oh do shut up. This isn't the 'OW' -- it's her stepmother of 15 years.

As you get older in life, I think you'll find that descriptions of past behaviors and choices will "stick."

This is so true. I think it's one thing to be cordial to ow, but to invite her to weddings or graduations was a horrible thing to do to their mom. It would be similar to inviting your molester, or someone who ran your kid over to a family event. Then telling you to "just get over it" since it happened over 15 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to get over. Took my family about 20 years to get over my dad doing this. Things will never be friendly

This made me think. Our dad cheated divorcing our mom for a woman half his age. Fast forward, he ended up dying, she ended up with the family assets. He stupidly didn't keep our family vacation home separate that was suppose to be ours long before he met her. It was suppose to go to us kids. Long after 20 years we were still being screwed. In our case, my dad's character was consistent right to the very end; same with step mother so shouldn't have been a surprise. And we had a relationship like OP does.

OP aside from changing the subject, have you talked to your mom telling her what you've said here?

No. She's defensive on most things and of course she would be on this especially.

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to get over. Took my family about 20 years to get over my dad doing this. Things will never be friendly

This made me think. Our dad cheated divorcing our mom for a woman half his age. Fast forward, he ended up dying, she ended up with the family assets. He stupidly didn't keep our family vacation home separate that was suppose to be ours long before he met her. It was suppose to go to us kids. Long after 20 years we were still being screwed. In our case, my dad's character was consistent right to the very end; same with step mother so shouldn't have been a surprise. And we had a relationship like OP does.

OP aside from changing the subject, have you talked to your mom telling her what you've said here?

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Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, my dad behaved really badly - affair for multiple years, brought my then-toddler brother to trysts, and had his marriage to my mom annulled so he could marry OW (now his wife/ our stepmom in the Catholic Church). Obviously our home life was dramatically affected when the truth emerged - I was in my mid-teens and my brother was in elementary.

The thing is, at any opportunity my mom will launch into a tirade about this woman. I'm less affected because I left home a couple of years after they split, but my brother dealt with a decade plus of shared custody etc - so I think my mom's narrative affects him more. Once again, I totally understand my mom's anger, but it's exhausting to hear her tear into this woman so often. Frankly, I think it reflects badly on her at this point - this all happened fifteen years ago.

How can I change the subject when she starts up? Is there any way I can gently suggest finding an outlet for her feelings, or indicate that these tirades make me (and my brother) feel uncomfortable?

What a bad daughter! Your mom gets screwed over by your dad, and she should just get over it?

You SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR FATHER!

He's a piece of shit.

OP -- did you know that your Mom reads DCUM?

It's funny until it happens to you. He didn't just divorce her, he was a horrible man. It's not the mother OP should be posting about imo.

Except her mother is the one that is causing the strife NOW, as in present sense. Its a real problem, and worse its a real problem that the mother is wasting her life and has wasted all these years holding on to anger that in the end never, for a minute, caused anyone else any pain or did anything but hurt her in the long run. She became her own enemy

Wow OP, I cannot believe some of the posters on this thread. Talk about mean girls.

Most healthy individuals recognize that no one should have to bear the burden of a parent's unhealthy behavior.

FWIW, I was in a similiar situation, although much younger when my parents split. I spent my entire childhood going to stay with my father and stepmother on weekends due to legal custody obligations, and of course developed a close relationship with my stepmother over the years. Not that I preferred her over my mother, mind you.

At 18 once I was no longer legally obligated to go to my dad's, my mother demanded that I cease all contact with him, my stepmother, and siblings because of what they had "done to her" 16 years before.

I loved my mother very much and this was very difficult for me. Over the years her harping on and on, I did start to distance myself from them out of warped respect to her. At 40, I barely see my Dad anymore and my mother has been estranged from me for the past 5 yrs (for other reasons).

Don't turn on your father and his family, they're still your family.

Anonymous wrote:OP, the crazies are out in force on this thread. Cheating is a fact of life. It sucks, and I hope it never happens to me, but the idea that people who do this cannot possibly have any redeeming value or worth as human beings is insane. I am in a similar situation, only my mother has been carrying on about my father for 25 years. It's very painful to deal with.

Me too, only it's been 35 years in my case. Some women never get over the bitterness. Ever.