Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 12:11     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:


Bernie may have been consistent in his voting record but his leadership skills are untested because he refuses to lead the charge on anything. I'm very concerned about what appears to be a complete unwillingness to compromise - because he can't just govern the progressive minority. He has to govern the entire country, and all of the people in it. If he thinks he's going to get anything done without compromising, well, we're going to end up in a 4 year stalemate where absolutely nothing gets done and no one benefits.

I also firmly believe that his "free college tuition" plan will cause the inequality gap to widen because it will make public colleges and universities very difficult to get into (so only top students will be able to get in), and will drive underrepresented and low SES students to private school (where they will graduate with high debt loads). I think the rising cost of college can be addressed in other, more effective, ways that don't exclude underrepresented and underserved populations from public schools.

His campaign conveniently ignores the root causes of the widening inequality gap which I see as (1) a lack of high quality childcare available to every working family (raising the federal minimum wage isn't going to make working class families capable of paying for high quality childcare here in DC), and (2) addressing the huge gaps in primary and secondary education in lower SES communities. Raising teacher salaries and improving services available to underserved and underrepresented students in primary and secondary schools - which is compulsory here in the US - would be a much better use of resources than giving tuition free college to the middle and upper middle class.

Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.



Most of what you are saying here is opinion but I have to say that Sanders has been very outspoken on childcare.

Here is a quote and an article:

"Sanders’ family benefits package has three parts to it, only one of which is, strictly speaking, new. The first part is an endorsement of Senator Kirsten Gillibrand’s FAMILY Act, which levies a small payroll tax to fund twelve weeks of publicly financed, job-protected paid leave for parents of newborns. Under the FAMILY Act, parents would receive welfare payments equal to 66 percent of their prior pay to allow them to support themselves while caring for and bonding with their babies. Sanders has long supported the FAMILY Act.

The second part is an endorsement of Senator Patty Murray’s Healthy Families Act, which mandates that employers provide earned sick leave for their employees. Under the existing legislation, employers would be required to provide a minimum of one hour of earned sick leave for every 30 hours worked, up to seven days of paid sick leave per year. In effect, the bill mandates that employers provide around 3 percent of employee compensation in the form of sick leave. Sanders has long supported the FAMILY Act, too.

The final part, and the only new part, is the Guaranteed Paid Vacation Act, which would mandate that employers provide 10 days of paid vacation for all employees that have worked under the employer for at least a year. This mandate would significantly increase minimum vacation leave from the current level—zero days—but it would still lag many other countries like France (30 days) and the Nordic countries (25 days). "

https://newrepublic.com/article/122027/bernie-sanderss-family-friendly-agenda-crushes-competition



Sorry. This post left out his Childcare plan

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/release-sanders-proposes-early-child-care-program
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 12:11     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:


Bernie may have been consistent in his voting record but his leadership skills are untested because he refuses to lead the charge on anything. I'm very concerned about what appears to be a complete unwillingness to compromise - because he can't just govern the progressive minority. He has to govern the entire country, and all of the people in it. If he thinks he's going to get anything done without compromising, well, we're going to end up in a 4 year stalemate where absolutely nothing gets done and no one benefits.

I also firmly believe that his "free college tuition" plan will cause the inequality gap to widen because it will make public colleges and universities very difficult to get into (so only top students will be able to get in), and will drive underrepresented and low SES students to private school (where they will graduate with high debt loads). I think the rising cost of college can be addressed in other, more effective, ways that don't exclude underrepresented and underserved populations from public schools.

His campaign conveniently ignores the root causes of the widening inequality gap which I see as (1) a lack of high quality childcare available to every working family (raising the federal minimum wage isn't going to make working class families capable of paying for high quality childcare here in DC), and (2) addressing the huge gaps in primary and secondary education in lower SES communities. Raising teacher salaries and improving services available to underserved and underrepresented students in primary and secondary schools - which is compulsory here in the US - would be a much better use of resources than giving tuition free college to the middle and upper middle class.

Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.



Most of what you are saying here is opinion but I have to say that Sanders has been very outspoken on childcare.

Here is a quote and an article:

"Sanders’ family benefits package has three parts to it, only one of which is, strictly speaking, new. The first part is an endorsement of Senator Kirsten Gillibrand’s FAMILY Act, which levies a small payroll tax to fund twelve weeks of publicly financed, job-protected paid leave for parents of newborns. Under the FAMILY Act, parents would receive welfare payments equal to 66 percent of their prior pay to allow them to support themselves while caring for and bonding with their babies. Sanders has long supported the FAMILY Act.

The second part is an endorsement of Senator Patty Murray’s Healthy Families Act, which mandates that employers provide earned sick leave for their employees. Under the existing legislation, employers would be required to provide a minimum of one hour of earned sick leave for every 30 hours worked, up to seven days of paid sick leave per year. In effect, the bill mandates that employers provide around 3 percent of employee compensation in the form of sick leave. Sanders has long supported the FAMILY Act, too.

The final part, and the only new part, is the Guaranteed Paid Vacation Act, which would mandate that employers provide 10 days of paid vacation for all employees that have worked under the employer for at least a year. This mandate would significantly increase minimum vacation leave from the current level—zero days—but it would still lag many other countries like France (30 days) and the Nordic countries (25 days). "

https://newrepublic.com/article/122027/bernie-sanderss-family-friendly-agenda-crushes-competition


Paid family leave, and paid sick leave, and paid maternity leave are NOT the same thing as affordable CHILDCARE for working families. Infants and toddlers need to be in high quality childcare when their mothers and fathers are at work. Not just have parents who can stay home when they are sick.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 12:09     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.

NP - When it comes to leadership skills Sanders is more qualified than Clinton. As mayor of Burlington, Sanders has 8 years of experience leading a governing body. In totality Sanders has 33 years experience being an elected official. Compared to Clinton having 8 years experience being an elected official and 4 years being Secretary of State. 33 years of experience versus 12.


On the national level, he has not acted as a leader. He has talked about things, and done zero to enact legislation other than vote. He also has zero foreign policy experience.



Here is a great article by Lawrence Korb on his foreign policy experience.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619

Here is a long list of some of his accomplishments and yes, it is on alternet but the article cites all of its sources.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you




Does he only do amendments? I'm really not that impressed by that.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 12:08     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race


Bernie may have been consistent in his voting record but his leadership skills are untested because he refuses to lead the charge on anything. I'm very concerned about what appears to be a complete unwillingness to compromise - because he can't just govern the progressive minority. He has to govern the entire country, and all of the people in it. If he thinks he's going to get anything done without compromising, well, we're going to end up in a 4 year stalemate where absolutely nothing gets done and no one benefits.

I also firmly believe that his "free college tuition" plan will cause the inequality gap to widen because it will make public colleges and universities very difficult to get into (so only top students will be able to get in), and will drive underrepresented and low SES students to private school (where they will graduate with high debt loads). I think the rising cost of college can be addressed in other, more effective, ways that don't exclude underrepresented and underserved populations from public schools.

His campaign conveniently ignores the root causes of the widening inequality gap which I see as (1) a lack of high quality childcare available to every working family (raising the federal minimum wage isn't going to make working class families capable of paying for high quality childcare here in DC), and (2) addressing the huge gaps in primary and secondary education in lower SES communities. Raising teacher salaries and improving services available to underserved and underrepresented students in primary and secondary schools - which is compulsory here in the US - would be a much better use of resources than giving tuition free college to the middle and upper middle class.

Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.



Most of what you are saying here is opinion but I have to say that Sanders has been very outspoken on childcare.

Here is a quote and an article:

"Sanders’ family benefits package has three parts to it, only one of which is, strictly speaking, new. The first part is an endorsement of Senator Kirsten Gillibrand’s FAMILY Act, which levies a small payroll tax to fund twelve weeks of publicly financed, job-protected paid leave for parents of newborns. Under the FAMILY Act, parents would receive welfare payments equal to 66 percent of their prior pay to allow them to support themselves while caring for and bonding with their babies. Sanders has long supported the FAMILY Act.

The second part is an endorsement of Senator Patty Murray’s Healthy Families Act, which mandates that employers provide earned sick leave for their employees. Under the existing legislation, employers would be required to provide a minimum of one hour of earned sick leave for every 30 hours worked, up to seven days of paid sick leave per year. In effect, the bill mandates that employers provide around 3 percent of employee compensation in the form of sick leave. Sanders has long supported the FAMILY Act, too.

The final part, and the only new part, is the Guaranteed Paid Vacation Act, which would mandate that employers provide 10 days of paid vacation for all employees that have worked under the employer for at least a year. This mandate would significantly increase minimum vacation leave from the current level—zero days—but it would still lag many other countries like France (30 days) and the Nordic countries (25 days). "

https://newrepublic.com/article/122027/bernie-sanderss-family-friendly-agenda-crushes-competition
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 12:05     Subject: Re:Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:I'm a NP in this thread.

They said that in 2007. In 2013 CDF honored her at their 40th anniversary for her work in child advocacy. http://www.childrensdefense.org/newsroom/cdf-in-th.../honoring-hillary-clinton.html (that's on CDF's website - not an opinion piece). It doesn't appear that they are active in politics, or I can't find an endorsement anywhere. They may not have a political action arm in the same way planned parenthood does.

Bernie may have been consistent in his voting record but his leadership skills are untested because he refuses to lead the charge on anything. I'm very concerned about what appears to be a complete unwillingness to compromise - because he can't just govern the progressive minority. He has to govern the entire country, and all of the people in it. If he thinks he's going to get anything done without compromising, well, we're going to end up in a 4 year stalemate where absolutely nothing gets done and no one benefits.

I also firmly believe that his "free college tuition" plan will cause the inequality gap to widen because it will make public colleges and universities very difficult to get into (so only top students will be able to get in), and will drive underrepresented and low SES students to private school (where they will graduate with high debt loads). I think the rising cost of college can be addressed in other, more effective, ways that don't exclude underrepresented and underserved populations from public schools.

His campaign conveniently ignores the root causes of the widening inequality gap which I see as (1) a lack of high quality childcare available to every working family (raising the federal minimum wage isn't going to make working class families capable of paying for high quality childcare here in DC), and (2) addressing the huge gaps in primary and secondary education in lower SES communities. Raising teacher salaries and improving services available to underserved and underrepresented students in primary and secondary schools - which is compulsory here in the US - would be a much better use of resources than giving tuition free college to the middle and upper middle class.

Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.
y

I agree with your fourth paragraph, but I haven't seen Clinton address affordable childcare.

You may be right about the leadership thing, but it reminded me that the same was said about Obama. It was pretty easy to draw a distinction between the leadership of their campaigns in the 2008 primary and Clinton's leadership was pretty poor. Reflecting on her tenures in the Senate and as Secretary of State, nothing jumps out in the leadership. I remember wondering why it was Susan Rice on all the talk shows after the Benghazi attacks. I'm not one who thinks she's at fault, but it was a strange moment to step back from leadership.

I think presenting a challenge to the candidate who was supposed to be the easy shoo-in is absolute proof that Sanders can get others on board to support his ideas. It's weird to say that he's incapable of compromise, when that's the only way he can get the legislation he champions on the floor. Having principals and standing by them is a detraction for players in the two party system, but in Sanders case, it's a big part of the attraction.


What legislation does he champion? What legislation has he "Introduced" and created from scratch? The answer: I can't find any. Please provide links and some examples.

HRC has talked a little about affordable childcare, and she is a champion for education. Bernie has done very little related to early childhood education, and nothing for primary and secondary school. Instead he wants to provide free college tuition to middle and upper middle class whites, and widen the inequality gap.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 12:03     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.

NP - When it comes to leadership skills Sanders is more qualified than Clinton. As mayor of Burlington, Sanders has 8 years of experience leading a governing body. In totality Sanders has 33 years experience being an elected official. Compared to Clinton having 8 years experience being an elected official and 4 years being Secretary of State. 33 years of experience versus 12.


On the national level, he has not acted as a leader. He has talked about things, and done zero to enact legislation other than vote. He also has zero foreign policy experience.



Here is a great article by Lawrence Korb on his foreign policy experience.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619

Here is a long list of some of his accomplishments and yes, it is on alternet but the article cites all of its sources.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you


Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:54     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.

NP - When it comes to leadership skills Sanders is more qualified than Clinton. As mayor of Burlington, Sanders has 8 years of experience leading a governing body. In totality Sanders has 33 years experience being an elected official. Compared to Clinton having 8 years experience being an elected official and 4 years being Secretary of State. 33 years of experience versus 12.


On the national level, he has not acted as a leader. He has talked about things, and done zero to enact legislation other than vote. He also has zero foreign policy experience.

I would disagree with your national level critique, Sanders was very effective leading as the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs. I would agree his foreign policy experience is lacking. As it was with Obama.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:51     Subject: Re:Sanders is the real feminist in this race
I'm a NP in this thread.

They said that in 2007. In 2013 CDF honored her at their 40th anniversary for her work in child advocacy. http://www.childrensdefense.org/newsroom/cdf-in-th.../honoring-hillary-clinton.html (that's on CDF's website - not an opinion piece). It doesn't appear that they are active in politics, or I can't find an endorsement anywhere. They may not have a political action arm in the same way planned parenthood does.

Bernie may have been consistent in his voting record but his leadership skills are untested because he refuses to lead the charge on anything. I'm very concerned about what appears to be a complete unwillingness to compromise - because he can't just govern the progressive minority. He has to govern the entire country, and all of the people in it. If he thinks he's going to get anything done without compromising, well, we're going to end up in a 4 year stalemate where absolutely nothing gets done and no one benefits.

I also firmly believe that his "free college tuition" plan will cause the inequality gap to widen because it will make public colleges and universities very difficult to get into (so only top students will be able to get in), and will drive underrepresented and low SES students to private school (where they will graduate with high debt loads). I think the rising cost of college can be addressed in other, more effective, ways that don't exclude underrepresented and underserved populations from public schools.

His campaign conveniently ignores the root causes of the widening inequality gap which I see as (1) a lack of high quality childcare available to every working family (raising the federal minimum wage isn't going to make working class families capable of paying for high quality childcare here in DC), and (2) addressing the huge gaps in primary and secondary education in lower SES communities. Raising teacher salaries and improving services available to underserved and underrepresented students in primary and secondary schools - which is compulsory here in the US - would be a much better use of resources than giving tuition free college to the middle and upper middle class.

Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.
y

I agree with your fourth paragraph, but I haven't seen Clinton address affordable childcare.

You may be right about the leadership thing, but it reminded me that the same was said about Obama. It was pretty easy to draw a distinction between the leadership of their campaigns in the 2008 primary and Clinton's leadership was pretty poor. Reflecting on her tenures in the Senate and as Secretary of State, nothing jumps out in the leadership. I remember wondering why it was Susan Rice on all the talk shows after the Benghazi attacks. I'm not one who thinks she's at fault, but it was a strange moment to step back from leadership.

I think presenting a challenge to the candidate who was supposed to be the easy shoo-in is absolute proof that Sanders can get others on board to support his ideas. It's weird to say that he's incapable of compromise, when that's the only way he can get the legislation he champions on the floor. Having principals and standing by them is a detraction for players in the two party system, but in Sanders case, it's a big part of the attraction.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:51     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:Do you know the single biggest killer of pregnant women?

Homicide.

You know how those homicides are committed?

With guns.

Sanders has a worse record on gun control than Clinton. Of course he does, because he's from a rural state with a robust gun culture. So, how is it not bending to political expediency when Sanders does things like support the Minute Men or block gun control?

If you want to come down on Clinton for political expediency, you need to look very closely at Sanders on those issues as well.

I believe there is a significant difference in suicide methods based on gender. Males use guns far more often than females. And females use drugs (overdose) far more often than males.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:48     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.

NP - When it comes to leadership skills Sanders is more qualified than Clinton. As mayor of Burlington, Sanders has 8 years of experience leading a governing body. In totality Sanders has 33 years experience being an elected official. Compared to Clinton having 8 years experience being an elected official and 4 years being Secretary of State. 33 years of experience versus 12.


On the national level, he has not acted as a leader. He has talked about things, and done zero to enact legislation other than vote. He also has zero foreign policy experience.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:43     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.

NP - When it comes to leadership skills Sanders is more qualified than Clinton. As mayor of Burlington, Sanders has 8 years of experience leading a governing body. In totality Sanders has 33 years experience being an elected official. Compared to Clinton having 8 years experience being an elected official and 4 years being Secretary of State. 33 years of experience versus 12.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:24     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Do you know the single biggest killer of pregnant women?

Homicide.

You know how those homicides are committed?

With guns.

Sanders has a worse record on gun control than Clinton. Of course he does, because he's from a rural state with a robust gun culture. So, how is it not bending to political expediency when Sanders does things like support the Minute Men or block gun control?

If you want to come down on Clinton for political expediency, you need to look very closely at Sanders on those issues as well.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 11:20     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I do not have time for a long, detailed post on this today. It would take me all day to outline my reasons that Sanders is a better feminist but, most of all, it is important to point out that you really can't separate gender from race and class. Feminists are about equality for all, and not just the equal rights of financially privileged women. For that reason, a living wage, single payer healthcare, childcare, maternity leave, equal pay are a very big deal for women. Economic fairness should not be downplayed and Clinton is simply not on the same level as Sanders on those issues. She is okay on some but not all of these issues and, if single mothers are not entitled to a living wage, they really don't stand a chance and neither do their children.

Sanders was a leading opponent of welfare reform, NAFTA and TPP. I can't understand how any feminist could downplay the harm to women of those particular policies.

As far as where the two candidates stand on specific women's issues, they are pretty comparable. They are about the same on reproductive freedom and on childcare and I do not expect either one of them to flip flop on those issues.

I could say a lot of things about the reasons I do not believe Clinton is a real feminist and, if I were to get into that, we would have to discuss a lot of things which have already been discussed on this board. I am not going to do again that since you asked me about Sanders and the main thing about Sanders is that there is not much I can say about him and his record on women's issues that isn't positive. He is a self identified feminist who has shown us that he will always stand up for the rights of women. Clinton has shown us that she is perfectly willing to compromise.



Sanders supporters keep talking about this and welfare reform, but in truth, both of those things hurt men as well as women, and in some instances, arguably more. So that particular argument for Sanders as the better feminist sounds about as non-sensical as the anti-choice claim that since 50% of the fetuses killed by abortion are female, it necessarily follows that being pro-choice is antifeminist. Furthermore, Hillary wasn't in elected office at the time of any of those policies' creations.

And a rebuttal that argues my thoughts more cogently than I: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/more-than-just-a-symbol/476490/ Bernie's no anti-feminist, but it's just another issue for him.



This is really twisted logic and shows a misunderstanding about feminism which has been promoted by the right wing and not by feminists. Just because an issue affects men does not mean it is not a feminist issue. Everything affects men. [i] I have no time to read your article but that is a completely erroneous statement.


Well then, if welfare reform and TPP were feminist issues, so was Sierra Blanca. And the Brady Bill, and like someone said before, the Minute Men.

If child care and healthcare are important feminist issues, Hillary was a pioneer in health care reform and then she was instrumental in implementing healthcare for children. She was also very involved in Children's Defense Fund. I am not sure why that doesn't make her a "real"feminist.



Clinton's work for the Children's Defense Fund is not something to brag about since the founder and president of CDF has made clear that the Clintons are not "friends in politics." CDF strongly disagreed with Welfare reform and stated that Bill Clinton's signature on that bill made a "mockery of his pledge not to hurt children." While it is true that HRC was not an elected official at the time, she advocated very strongly for welfare reform.

I am not defending Sanders on Sierra Blanca, the Brady Bill, or the Minute Men. I have said before that he is not perfect but his record is much cleaner on women's issues than Clinton's. It would be very difficult to make the case that his policies have done significant harm to women and children like the Clintons have. His healthcare proposal is far better for women and children as are his economic policies. I have said before that I believe that Clinton is a feminist when it suits her politically.



I'm a NP in this thread.

They said that in 2007. In 2013 CDF honored her at their 40th anniversary for her work in child advocacy. http://www.childrensdefense.org/newsroom/cdf-in-the-news/press-releases/2013/honoring-hillary-clinton.html (that's on CDF's website - not an opinion piece). It doesn't appear that they are active in politics, or I can't find an endorsement anywhere. They may not have a political action arm in the same way planned parenthood does.

Bernie may have been consistent in his voting record but his leadership skills are untested because he refuses to lead the charge on anything. I'm very concerned about what appears to be a complete unwillingness to compromise - because he can't just govern the progressive minority. He has to govern the entire country, and all of the people in it. If he thinks he's going to get anything done without compromising, well, we're going to end up in a 4 year stalemate where absolutely nothing gets done and no one benefits.

I also firmly believe that his "free college tuition" plan will cause the inequality gap to widen because it will make public colleges and universities very difficult to get into (so only top students will be able to get in), and will drive underrepresented and low SES students to private school (where they will graduate with high debt loads). I think the rising cost of college can be addressed in other, more effective, ways that don't exclude underrepresented and underserved populations from public schools.

His campaign conveniently ignores the root causes of the widening inequality gap which I see as (1) a lack of high quality childcare available to every working family (raising the federal minimum wage isn't going to make working class families capable of paying for high quality childcare here in DC), and (2) addressing the huge gaps in primary and secondary education in lower SES communities. Raising teacher salaries and improving services available to underserved and underrepresented students in primary and secondary schools - which is compulsory here in the US - would be a much better use of resources than giving tuition free college to the middle and upper middle class.

Bernie can have the most perfect voting record in the world - his leadership skills are untested and probably nonexistent. He has not shown an ability to take ideas and turn them into action. He has not shown an ability to get others on board with his ideas so that his brilliant plans can become reality. Without that, he's not qualified to be president because gaining an office is not the same as honing those skills. He will not be respected just because he was elected. He will still be that crazy guy from the Hill without any leadership skills.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 07:59     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I do not have time for a long, detailed post on this today. It would take me all day to outline my reasons that Sanders is a better feminist but, most of all, it is important to point out that you really can't separate gender from race and class. Feminists are about equality for all, and not just the equal rights of financially privileged women. For that reason, a living wage, single payer healthcare, childcare, maternity leave, equal pay are a very big deal for women. Economic fairness should not be downplayed and Clinton is simply not on the same level as Sanders on those issues. She is okay on some but not all of these issues and, if single mothers are not entitled to a living wage, they really don't stand a chance and neither do their children.

Sanders was a leading opponent of welfare reform, NAFTA and TPP. I can't understand how any feminist could downplay the harm to women of those particular policies.

As far as where the two candidates stand on specific women's issues, they are pretty comparable. They are about the same on reproductive freedom and on childcare and I do not expect either one of them to flip flop on those issues.

I could say a lot of things about the reasons I do not believe Clinton is a real feminist and, if I were to get into that, we would have to discuss a lot of things which have already been discussed on this board. I am not going to do again that since you asked me about Sanders and the main thing about Sanders is that there is not much I can say about him and his record on women's issues that isn't positive. He is a self identified feminist who has shown us that he will always stand up for the rights of women. Clinton has shown us that she is perfectly willing to compromise.



Sanders supporters keep talking about this and welfare reform, but in truth, both of those things hurt men as well as women, and in some instances, arguably more. So that particular argument for Sanders as the better feminist sounds about as non-sensical as the anti-choice claim that since 50% of the fetuses killed by abortion are female, it necessarily follows that being pro-choice is antifeminist. Furthermore, Hillary wasn't in elected office at the time of any of those policies' creations.

And a rebuttal that argues my thoughts more cogently than I: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/more-than-just-a-symbol/476490/ Bernie's no anti-feminist, but it's just another issue for him.



This is really twisted logic and shows a misunderstanding about feminism which has been promoted by the right wing and not by feminists. Just because an issue affects men does not mean it is not a feminist issue. Everything affects men. [i] I have no time to read your article but that is a completely erroneous statement.


Well then, if welfare reform and TPP were feminist issues, so was Sierra Blanca. And the Brady Bill, and like someone said before, the Minute Men.

If child care and healthcare are important feminist issues, Hillary was a pioneer in health care reform and then she was instrumental in implementing healthcare for children. She was also very involved in Children's Defense Fund. I am not sure why that doesn't make her a "real"feminist.



Clinton's work for the Children's Defense Fund is not something to brag about since the founder and president of CDF has made clear that the Clintons are not "friends in politics." CDF strongly disagreed with Welfare reform and stated that Bill Clinton's signature on that bill made a "mockery of his pledge not to hurt children." While it is true that HRC was not an elected official at the time, she advocated very strongly for welfare reform.

I am not defending Sanders on Sierra Blanca, the Brady Bill, or the Minute Men. I have said before that he is not perfect but his record is much cleaner on women's issues than Clinton's. It would be very difficult to make the case that his policies have done significant harm to women and children like the Clintons have. His healthcare proposal is far better for women and children as are his economic policies. I have said before that I believe that Clinton is a feminist when it suits her politically.



Come back again when you have concrete and detailed answers, not your vague opinions. Il listen then
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2016 07:28     Subject: Sanders is the real feminist in this race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I do not have time for a long, detailed post on this today. It would take me all day to outline my reasons that Sanders is a better feminist but, most of all, it is important to point out that you really can't separate gender from race and class. Feminists are about equality for all, and not just the equal rights of financially privileged women. For that reason, a living wage, single payer healthcare, childcare, maternity leave, equal pay are a very big deal for women. Economic fairness should not be downplayed and Clinton is simply not on the same level as Sanders on those issues. She is okay on some but not all of these issues and, if single mothers are not entitled to a living wage, they really don't stand a chance and neither do their children.

Sanders was a leading opponent of welfare reform, NAFTA and TPP. I can't understand how any feminist could downplay the harm to women of those particular policies.

As far as where the two candidates stand on specific women's issues, they are pretty comparable. They are about the same on reproductive freedom and on childcare and I do not expect either one of them to flip flop on those issues.

I could say a lot of things about the reasons I do not believe Clinton is a real feminist and, if I were to get into that, we would have to discuss a lot of things which have already been discussed on this board. I am not going to do again that since you asked me about Sanders and the main thing about Sanders is that there is not much I can say about him and his record on women's issues that isn't positive. He is a self identified feminist who has shown us that he will always stand up for the rights of women. Clinton has shown us that she is perfectly willing to compromise.



Sanders supporters keep talking about this and welfare reform, but in truth, both of those things hurt men as well as women, and in some instances, arguably more. So that particular argument for Sanders as the better feminist sounds about as non-sensical as the anti-choice claim that since 50% of the fetuses killed by abortion are female, it necessarily follows that being pro-choice is antifeminist. Furthermore, Hillary wasn't in elected office at the time of any of those policies' creations.

And a rebuttal that argues my thoughts more cogently than I: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/more-than-just-a-symbol/476490/ Bernie's no anti-feminist, but it's just another issue for him.


This is really twisted logic and shows a misunderstanding about feminism which has been promoted by the right wing and not by feminists. Just because an issue affects men does not mean it is not a feminist issue. Everything affects men. [i] I have no time to read your article but that is a completely erroneous statement.


Talk about twisting. That's not what I said. I said that's a non-sensical measure by which to judge Sanders as "the real feminist."

And if I were you, I'd take that careless implication that I, as a Clinton supporter, am in the thrall of the Right Wing and carefully tuck it far away.



Perhaps you are not listening to the right wing about feminism but your logic regarding female fetuses and your strange statements about welfare reform affecting men more than women are too bizarre to comment on respectfully. If you knew anything about feminism you would understand that economics have always been an important part of the equation. If you can think of a better way to explain what you were trying to communicate, please do. Otherwise I am just going to have to chalk this up to you not making any sense whatsoever.


No, my meaning is clear if willing to re-read that sentence. The rest of your post is just insults. Enjoy your super classy thread, totally started with the best of intentions, and just "opinion sharing." Eyeroll.