So the blame game continues... It's never me, it's always someone else's fault.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, here's how I understand OP, and it goes point to unconscious bias that has come up on this topics discussion-

Looks like OP is not saying his/her DC is super smart.
Or W kids are smarter or non w kids are not smart or there is any desperation to get DC in to magnet or W kids are underrepresented in magnet.
The point raised is that why there should be equal distribution from each school for magnet as it should be totally merit based. Second, after the equal distribution or so , say there is one slot and committee has two equally good applications- one from w school student and other non-w student, OPs point is that committee would lean on selecting non-w kid with that unconscious bias that w kid's home school is anyway a good high school program.

And this is proved through numerous comments posted on this topic by the posters.

So there is unconscious bias towards w kids if there are equal competitors from non w schools.

Which posters proved that the admissions committee unconsciously selects the kid from the non-wealthy/white school over the kid from the wealthy/white school on grounds that the wealthy/white school is good anyway?

Ok, here's how I understand OP, and it goes point to unconscious bias that has come up on this topics discussion-

Looks like OP is not saying his/her DC is super smart.
Or W kids are smarter or non w kids are not smart or there is any desperation to get DC in to magnet or W kids are underrepresented in magnet.
The point raised is that why there should be equal distribution from each school for magnet as it should be totally merit based. Second, after the equal distribution or so , say there is one slot and committee has two equally good applications- one from w school student and other non-w student, OPs point is that committee would lean on selecting non-w kid with that unconscious bias that w kid's home school is anyway a good high school program.

And this is proved through numerous comments posted on this topic by the posters.

So there is unconscious bias towards w kids if there are equal competitors from non w schools.

Pull up the article by Emma Brown in the 4/3/16 metro section of WaPo.

Um, article on this exact point in yesterday's WaPo - non-black teachers underestimate the abilities of black students, in particularly black male students.

Teacher, you're really defensive. Wonder why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Teachers underestimate students ALL THE TIME for various reasons and race is a biggie. This really speaks to the whole issue on another thread and how non-black teachers tend to think more poorly of their minority students. This has been measured in scientific studies. They also tend to underestimate the abilities of boys.

exactly

We "non-black" teachers are always out to get the minorities by denying them access to elite programs!

You are one sharp cookie, PP, as you clearly used sufficient evidence to prove your point. Could you share your study with DCUM?

NP here, there are tons of studies out there on unconscious bias. It's a big topic in the corporate world and elsewhere right now. Various police forces are training on unconscious bias. you can google unconscious bias and get tons of interesting stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Teachers underestimate students ALL THE TIME for various reasons and race is a biggie. This really speaks to the whole issue on another thread and how non-black teachers tend to think more poorly of their minority students. This has been measured in scientific studies. They also tend to underestimate the abilities of boys.

exactly

We "non-black" teachers are always out to get the minorities by denying them access to elite programs!

You are one sharp cookie, PP, as you clearly used sufficient evidence to prove your point. Could you share your study with DCUM?

I'm not the PP you're responding to, but here is the study that the PP referred to:

http://releases.jhu.edu/2016/03/30/race-biases-teachers-expectations-for-students/

The researchers analyzed data from the Educational Longitudinal Study of 2002, an ongoing study following 8,400 10th grade public school students. That survey asked two different teachers, who each taught a particular student in either math or reading, to predict how far that one student would go in school. With white students, the ratings from both teachers tended to be the same. But with black students, boys in particular, there were big differences — the white teachers had much lower expectations than black teachers for how far the black students would go in school.

The study found:
?White and other non-black teachers were 12 percentage points more likely than black teachers to predict black students wouldn’t finish high school.
?Non-black teachers were 5 percent more likely to predict their black boy students wouldn’t graduate high school than their black girls.
?Black female teachers are significantly more optimistic about the ability of black boys to complete high school than teachers of any other demographic group. They were 20 percent less likely than white teachers to predict their student wouldn’t graduate high school, and 30 percent less likely to say that then black male teachers.
?White male teachers are 10 to 20 percent more likely to have low expectations for black female students.
?Math teachers were significantly more likely to have low expectations for female students.
?For black students, particularly black boys, having a non-black teacher in a 10th grade subject made them much less likely to pursue that subject by enrolling in similar classes. This suggests biased expectations by teachers have long-term effects on student outcomes, the researchers said.

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Teachers underestimate students ALL THE TIME for various reasons and race is a biggie. This really speaks to the whole issue on another thread and how non-black teachers tend to think more poorly of their minority students. This has been measured in scientific studies. They also tend to underestimate the abilities of boys.

exactly

We "non-black" teachers are always out to get the minorities by denying them access to elite programs!

You are one sharp cookie, PP, as you clearly used sufficient evidence to prove your point. Could you share your study with DCUM?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The magnet programs have become segregated populations within a school. Why not end them altogether and spread the challenging course work across all schools in the county?

The magnet programs have failed in their main goal which was to balance out racial populations in the system. MCPS should go back to the drawing board to revisit this issue but open up more academic options to all students. Restructuring school boundaries and busing options into the more elite schools should be on the table.

Wait, if the magnets are primarily white and Asian, and the magnets are housed at Takoma and Blair and Eastern, which are otherwise majority minority, then how have they failed to balance out racial populations in the system? They have made wealthy west-county families compete to go to school in Silver Spring.

I think you're talking about the achievement gap. Magnets were absolutely not created to solve the achievement gap.

+1. The mere presence of the magnets has significantly changed the demographics at those schools to be less majority-minority, even if you only look at the non-magnet portion. In terms of balancing racial populations, the magnets were immensely successful.

I'm all for magnets b/c there are truly gifted kids out there. But let's not kid ourselves. These are schools w/in schools. Kids don't mix. Magnet kids live in bubbles and travel in packs. So while the racial "balance" looks good on paper, the integration isn't there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teachers ALWAYS know more than the parents about which kid will do what. That IN NO WAY implies that parents shouldn't push teachers to justify their actions.

I don't find this to be true at all. Teachers often think one DC is at the low end of the class because of the way he looks. They are always blown away when the results of standardized tests come back.

the way he looks?

what?

huh?

How do you know this? Have you surveyed your kid's teachers?

Anonymous wrote:Churchill is WINSTON CHURCHILL, that's why it's a W school.

It's called the FUR belt - where the "real" W schools are located.

Anonymous wrote:The teachers ALWAYS know more than the parents about which kid will do what. That IN NO WAY implies that parents shouldn't push teachers to justify their actions.

I don't find this to be true at all. Teachers often think one DC is at the low end of the class because of the way he looks. They are always blown away when the results of standardized tests come back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The magnet programs have become segregated populations within a school. Why not end them altogether and spread the challenging course work across all schools in the county?

The magnet programs have failed in their main goal which was to balance out racial populations in the system. MCPS should go back to the drawing board to revisit this issue but open up more academic options to all students. Restructuring school boundaries and busing options into the more elite schools should be on the table.

Wait, if the magnets are primarily white and Asian, and the magnets are housed at Takoma and Blair and Eastern, which are otherwise majority minority, then how have they failed to balance out racial populations in the system? They have made wealthy west-county families compete to go to school in Silver Spring.

I think you're talking about the achievement gap. Magnets were absolutely not created to solve the achievement gap.

I don't know why the original motivation for placement of magnet schools was so thoroughly rehashed in the report or why it's being re-argued here, this is thinking from thirty years ago. The entire concept that magnets be placed in low SES schools to improve diversity is antiquated and a catch-22, especially in light of the concern with achievement gap. If the belief is that achievement should be race-blind, then it makes no sense to leverage the fact that mostly whites/asians pursue magnets to integrate schools. If pursuit and acceptance into magnets were to mirror the racial diversity of the county it would make no sense to place magnets in the most racially diverse schools. The magnet programs have clearly developed beyond whatever ulterior motives there were in their creation and the discussion of their future really needs a different focus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The magnet programs have become segregated populations within a school. Why not end them altogether and spread the challenging course work across all schools in the county?

The magnet programs have failed in their main goal which was to balance out racial populations in the system. MCPS should go back to the drawing board to revisit this issue but open up more academic options to all students. Restructuring school boundaries and busing options into the more elite schools should be on the table.

Wait, if the magnets are primarily white and Asian, and the magnets are housed at Takoma and Blair and Eastern, which are otherwise majority minority, then how have they failed to balance out racial populations in the system? They have made wealthy west-county families compete to go to school in Silver Spring.

I think you're talking about the achievement gap. Magnets were absolutely not created to solve the achievement gap.

+1. The mere presence of the magnets has significantly changed the demographics at those schools to be less majority-minority, even if you only look at the non-magnet portion. In terms of balancing racial populations, the magnets were immensely successful.