Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 10:28     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:

I hate to say it, but because sports are considered "cool" by adults in the workplace. That's not to say that those other things don't help make you a well-rounded person, or that there aren't settings where experience in music or drama or scouts is respected, but sports are sort of a currency among so-called successful people in many settings. Just like golf is considered a desired networking forum while other sports/activities aren't (ever hear a senior exec suggest an outing to the bowling alley to discuss a developing deal?). Not fair, but it is what it is. I do think that kids who have worked or started their own businesses also have a leg up say over someone who played the cello in orchestra for 4 years. It's because it comes with related skills that can be useful in the work place.


Yes, of course somebody who worked or started their own businesses has different skills from somebody who played cello in an orchestra. Just as somebody who played cello in an orchestra has different skills from somebody who worked or started their own business.

But since the discussion is about sports, neither is relevant to the thread.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 10:28     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Why do some people allow their kids to spend all their time on academics and make no effort to improve their athletic skills?


Because athletic skills aren't important.


My daughter will never be a professional basketball player, so you're right. Her ability to dribble a basketball or run plays or make three pointers isn't going to take her far in life. But health is important, both physical and mental. Academics help teach her one method of being intellectually strong and active. Sports help teach her one method of being physically strong and active. The practice of physical activity is important. Athletic skills are one way to make that practice habitual and lifelong.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 10:26     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
The amount of calorie intake these days requires a lot of gym time. Sport teaches a lot of disciplines that cannot be learned in text books. Team work, variable changes, how to win and lose, give and take, thinking on your feet, empathy to name a few. I have an A student and I require 1 sport every season. They're not super sport stars. I just don't want them to be part of the obese statistics. It's not at the expense of academics. If you don't have your health you have nothing so it is not at the expense of anything.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 10:22     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:Some people wrongly believe that the kids will get scholarships, when in fact only 2% of high school kids get sports scholarships to college.


Just as an aside -- this "fact" which is often bandied about when discussing kids and sports is not really relevant for any sport other than football which has no club/travel side.

The reality is that college recruitment is done out of club and travel sports. College coaches may well pay attention to high school basketball (particularly girls where AAU options are fewer), and will absolutely look at certain times achieved in (some) meets, but in most situations and sports, college coaches will be watching and recruiting out of club/travel.

Now -- within club/travel sports there are obviously multiple layers based on competitive ability. Of course, not every kid on a "top team" is good enough to play/compete at a high level in college, and not every kid on a lower level team is unable to compete at a high level in college. And, there are multiple levels of play post-high school: Professional (particularly in baseball and hockey (juniors)), Div I, Div II, Div III, NAIA and Junior College. Scholarships are handled differently at every level and by sport, and Div III has no athletic scholarships (nor does the Ivy League which competes at Div I levels for most of their sports).

My daughter plays soccer in college and I have a son who is a junior and going through the recruitment process now so I am most familiar with that sport. All but 4 of the girls (out of 20) on her uu17 and u18 club teams went on to play in college. The 4 who did not could have played at smaller schools, but each elected to go to a large school and not play. Was there something "magic" about that team? No. It was probably the 3rd or 4th best team in the state that we lived in at the time. The top 5 or so teams would have about the same ration of kids going on to play in college, and, of course, other kids would move on from other teams that were not quite as competitive. There are a lot of opportunities out there, but in girls soccer you know pretty early where you stand (recruiting is well underway in the kids' sophomore year and pretty much done by this time in the girls' junior year - at least for Div I as scholarship money gets committed). For boys it is a little later as they physically mature later. With the exception of the very top level players, coaches are more willing to wait until the junior year and beginning of senior year. Again though, on my son's team which is not a Development Academy team (the top level of boys' youth soccer) about half the kids are looking at partial scholarship offers now.

TLDR - No one should care about what percent of kids playing in high school go on to play in college or get an athletic scholarship. That is not the pool from which college athletes are recruited (aside from football). While obviously such things are very individually based, if you were a parent with a 10 year old who you think might want to play in college the statistics to look at would be the percentage of kids playing/competing at level X in my kid's sport who go on to play/compete in college. And, can my kid compete at level X. (Lots of kids play club/travel sports for reasons other than trying to get a college scholarship -- fun being the most important, but also for something to do in the summer, or to be able to make a high school team, or to get/stay in shape, etc. . .

Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:54     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Non-athletic people-pleasing A-student who went to the best private schools and private colleges in the country and works in academia here.

There are many different ways to find success and build character and it is important for children AND adults to be open-minded and to make good choices based on their own needs/interests/desires.


I'm more or less the same person as above (except I don't work in academia). I totally regret that in my entire life I played sports for exactly one 3 month season when I was 8 years old. Even though I would have been terrible at sports, I think that I would have been better off playing - I really enjoyed that season! And I know that DSS is more focused and passionate about everything when he's playing sports.


Why do people assume that kids are more likely to gain teamwork and leadership skills from sports rather than participating in scouts, clubs, drama, band, orchestra, or after school jobs? For all the people who are impressed when seeing sports on a resume, does the same apply to these other activities? Honestly any activity where kids are working with others has the potential to develop teamwork and leadership. Many of them also are less time consuming and experience to boot. Why is it necessary to spend $$$ and 15+ hours a week to build these skills?


I hate to say it, but because sports are considered "cool" by adults in the workplace. That's not to say that those other things don't help make you a well-rounded person, or that there aren't settings where experience in music or drama or scouts is respected, but sports are sort of a currency among so-called successful people in many settings. Just like golf is considered a desired networking forum while other sports/activities aren't (ever hear a senior exec suggest an outing to the bowling alley to discuss a developing deal?). Not fair, but it is what it is. I do think that kids who have worked or started their own businesses also have a leg up say over someone who played the cello in orchestra for 4 years. It's because it comes with related skills that can be useful in the work place.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:44     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
"Expensive"
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:42     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Non-athletic people-pleasing A-student who went to the best private schools and private colleges in the country and works in academia here.

There are many different ways to find success and build character and it is important for children AND adults to be open-minded and to make good choices based on their own needs/interests/desires.


I'm more or less the same person as above (except I don't work in academia). I totally regret that in my entire life I played sports for exactly one 3 month season when I was 8 years old. Even though I would have been terrible at sports, I think that I would have been better off playing - I really enjoyed that season! And I know that DSS is more focused and passionate about everything when he's playing sports.



Why do people assume that kids are more likely to gain teamwork and leadership skills from sports rather than participating in scouts, clubs, drama, band, orchestra, or after school jobs? For all the people who are impressed when seeing sports on a resume, does the same apply to these other activities? Honestly any activity where kids are working with others has the potential to develop teamwork and leadership. Many of them also are less time consuming and experience to boot. Why is it necessary to spend $$$ and 15+ hours a week to build these skills?
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:37     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am the person you think you are describing. Solid B student who was involved in sports and other activities. My parents could have forced me to focus only on school in order to get straight As, but they knew it would take a toll on me mental health wise. Sure, I went to a top 50 college instead of a top 10, but I was happy and had a great high school and college experience. I now have a very successful and fulfilling career. I am fortunate my parents allowed me to be who I am.



Nowadays being a solid B student won't get you into a top 50.


Depends on where you get those B's and what else you have to offer. That's where sports can come in and make a difference for some.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:31     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:Non-athletic people-pleasing A-student who went to the best private schools and private colleges in the country and works in academia here.

There are many different ways to find success and build character and it is important for children AND adults to be open-minded and to make good choices based on their own needs/interests/desires.


I'm more or less the same person as above (except I don't work in academia). I totally regret that in my entire life I played sports for exactly one 3 month season when I was 8 years old. Even though I would have been terrible at sports, I think that I would have been better off playing - I really enjoyed that season! And I know that DSS is more focused and passionate about everything when he's playing sports.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:30     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:[b]
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For some kids, Bs might be what they are getting for their best efforts and sports is an area where they can easily excel. We all have our strengths and challenges and we need to learn to make the best of our strengths and work hard at our challenges. It's good to have a balance in our days of things we are good at and things we have to work at. In addition, athletic participation teaches kids a lot about cooperation, leadership, how to win and lose in a graceful manner, persistence, and discipline, not to mention the physical fitness and health benefits.

Why do some people allow their kids to spend all their time on academics and make no effort to improve their athletic skills?


Because kids with good grades have more options and opportunities than kids with bad grades. If two kids are competing for the same opportunity, the kid with the good grades is going to have an edge over the low B kid.


You are oversimplifying and ignoring PP's point. Let's say you have a B student who, if they dropped all of their other sports and focused exclusively on academics, can only really bring their grades up to a B+ overall. An increase from B to B+, all else being equal, may result in some better opportunities, but the opportunities for a B+ student who does nothing else still may not be as good as for a child with Bs who is also a dedicated athlete who has developed (and can demonstrate) maturity, teamwork, leadership, etc.) would be. They also may be much happier and emotionally healthy getting Bs and playing sports than if they were getting B+s and not playing sports.

If we're talking about a kid who could be making straight As without sports but is barely making Cs with sports, I will grant that there's good reason to reassess the place of sports in the kid's life. But those students are very few and far between, and they're certainly not representative of all student athletes.



Serious question, why is it so commonly assumed that playing sports, gives one all of these skills. I played sports growing up and yes it was exercise and fun, which in and of itself as s worthwhile, but I honestly don't think it did jack shit as far as improving my teamwork, leadership, etc. this argument always seemed like something parents want to believe to justify the vast amount of money and time they devote to their kids' sports.


Sorry sports didn't work out for you, PP. Your argument seems like something people use to justify why they weren't that good at sports.


I was perfectly fine at sports and had fun doing them. It just really don't see how it truly improved my leadership or teamwork skills.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:28     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For some kids, Bs might be what they are getting for their best efforts and sports is an area where they can easily excel. We all have our strengths and challenges and we need to learn to make the best of our strengths and work hard at our challenges. It's good to have a balance in our days of things we are good at and things we have to work at. In addition, athletic participation teaches kids a lot about cooperation, leadership, how to win and lose in a graceful manner, persistence, and discipline, not to mention the physical fitness and health benefits.

Why do some people allow their kids to spend all their time on academics and make no effort to improve their athletic skills?



Because athletic skills aren't important.

I'd say both academics and athletics are important. If you are not helping your kids learn how to be fit and enjoy what their bodies are capable of accomplishing, you are doing them a disservice that can negatively impact their quality of life. I also have found that (generally speaking), boys feel better about themselves and worry less about bullying and social status if they are reasonably capable at sports. Posters above have linked to evidence of the link between sports and career success for girls.


I agree, it probably is more socially necessary for boys to play sports. As the mom of girls, I'm very greatful that they don't have to deal with that pressure m

Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:22     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When I was on the recruiting committee of biglaw firm I learned that the managing partner nearly insisted that the good candidates have strong team sports on their resume -- preferably at the college level. So you can't just blanket say "better grades equals more opportunities". You'd be wrong.


I have seen this in other fields also. People who have never played a team sport frequently are missing a lot of important skills that are important in a business setting. Working with teammates to win at a sport has many similarities to working with associates to put a winning case together or write a winning sales presentation. Sports develop a lot of qualities that the classroom does not.


sports teaches discipline, motivation, drive, teamwork, handling success and failure. As an aside, more than half of top female executives played sports in college:

https://hbr.org/2014/10/research-more-than-half-of-female-execs-were-college-athletes


It could be because the type of women who achieve this type of position tend to be less stereotypically feminine to begin with.





Interesting article. Of all top C-suites (CEO, CCO etc..) that are women in this country, only 3% never played sports.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:19     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:

Serious question, why is it so commonly assumed that playing sports, gives one all of these skills. I played sports growing up and yes it was exercise and fun, which in and of itself as s worthwhile, but I honestly don't think it did jack shit as far as improving my teamwork, leadership, etc. this argument always seemed like something parents want to believe to justify the vast amount of money and time they devote to their kids' sports.


It's funny, but I used to ask this exact question of my husband. In the early years of our marriage, he would go on and on about how everything important he learned from life came from sports: the ability to work as part of a team, be a leader, etc. I would roll my eyes and point out that he and I seemed to have arrived at pretty much the exact same point in life--education, career, and value-wise--despite the fact that I had never participated in team sports.

Fast forward to many years later with two very serious athlete children and one who is interested in sports but not as athletically gifted, and I have a really different perspective on it. Comparing myself to my husband and my older kids, I've come to see how much harder I had to work to become confident and decisive, and how much longer it took than it did/has for them. I think if you work hard at sports and take them seriously, you learn life lessons much more quickly and efficiently than you do just by living and figuring things out. And if you learn to be assertive and figure out the teamwork angle early, you get more out of school and social interactions, with less anxiety. The difference between my less athletic child before and after getting into sports are pretty striking too--school is more comfortable and enjoyable for little boys who are perceived as being decent at sports and recess activities.

Some of those benefits may not happen if you play sports more casually, just for fun, though you of course can make friends and help to get fit through that approach. Whatever level though, I've come to think that sports are wonderful for kids of all abilities, and I don't have "justify" the time and money we spend on it. I also love the social scene with the other sports parents and extended families. It's nice to be part of that sort of community.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:16     Subject: Re:Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For some kids, Bs might be what they are getting for their best efforts and sports is an area where they can easily excel. We all have our strengths and challenges and we need to learn to make the best of our strengths and work hard at our challenges. It's good to have a balance in our days of things we are good at and things we have to work at. In addition, athletic participation teaches kids a lot about cooperation, leadership, how to win and lose in a graceful manner, persistence, and discipline, not to mention the physical fitness and health benefits.

Why do some people allow their kids to spend all their time on academics and make no effort to improve their athletic skills?


Because kids with good grades have more options and opportunities than kids with bad grades. If two kids are competing for the same opportunity, the kid with the good grades is going to have an edge over the low B kid.

Unless the kid with the higher grades is an a-hole. Someone with lower grades, but good social skills, good life skills and a good work ethic can go very far.



Yes, as demonstrated by the great social skills, life skills, and work ethic of members of the NFL.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2016 09:10     Subject: Why do people allow kids to play sports at the expense of academics?
Anonymous wrote:I would prefer my kid be happy and well rounded. B's are good grades, above average in fact, and acceptable in our home. Sports and other hobbies add a lot to life, and we find that more valuable for our kids' specific situation than the hyper-focus on grades that would be necessary for then to always have all A's.

Different individuals, different priorities and life philosophies.



B's are not above average for college bound students. Does anyone in this board truly view a c as an average grade? I would guess most view a C as a bad grade.